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Gun Control?

edited April 2007 in Politics
How do you guys feel about Gun Control now a days? In Virginia, it is illegal to carry a gun on a Virginia school campus. A bill that would allow students to carry one got shot down last year. Story. After the recent shooting, it seems that the law abiding students were sitting ducks, not able to defend themselves against a madman. Do you think that people should be allowed to carry concealed weapons wherever? For reference another Virginia school shooting was stopped last year before killing many people by two students with Concealed Weapons Permits. Story. Personally, I feel that if students had been allowed to carry firearms, we would have seen a lot less blood on Monday.
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Comments

  • "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns."
  • /Strict constructionist says of course you should be able to bear arms.
  • /Strict constructionist says of course you should be able to bear arms.
    Does that include fat people with ugly arms?
  • Personally I'm all for our right to carry swords and 18th century style firearms ^_^
  • edited April 2007
    h
    Post edited by Jason on
  • I think that only two things need to be done with current gun control.
    1. Foreigners are not allowed to buy guns in the US
    2. Possibly adding a psychological evaluation when a person gets a gun license, or buying a gun
  • My views on gun control are complex to put it lightly...

    Maybe we'll do a show on it ^_~
  • Yes, of course. More regulation is the answer! Bring on the legislators who need face time!
  • Please read this page and this page.
  • Making it illegal to carry guns in public places doesn't really make much of a difference when it's so easy to get hold of them. Someone who's planning to murder obviously wouldn't take something as breaking a gun law seriously.
    I don't know how the details work in Virginia but the fact that an ordinary student (one with psychological issues on top of all) can go and get a fire arm seems like a sign of slack control.
    How do things work in the states? Can anyone buy a gun after you're 21? I'm sorry but that's just ludicrous! If no one could get hold of guns, no one would need them.
    I think that only two things need to be done with current gun control.
    1. Foreigners are not allowed to buy guns in the US
    2. Possibly adding a psychological evaluation when a person gets a gun license, or buying a gun
    Why should only foreigners be prohibited from buying guns? Are Americans any less prone to use them?
  • Vermont has essentially NO gun laws. I can buy a handgun with no permit and carry it concealed in the mall. (Of course that assumes that there was a mall near me - which there isn't.) Yet... Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. So I think the issue may be somewhat complicated.
  • RymRym
    edited April 2007
    Michigan was the same way. My mom got her conceal and carry with no trouble at all.

    I believe in an inherent right of people to have the means to protect themselves and others from harm. I also believe in the right of a people to willfully prevent access to things that will harm their society more than will help it. I believe that people have the right to use force to protect their lives, security, or property, but I also believe that the indiscriminate use of deadly force in the course of protecting petty property is a net loss.

    A rational person who is armed is a benefit to society. An irrational person who is armed is a detriment.

    The former has the ability to protect themselves and others, but the judgement to discriminate in using this ability according to the situation in a rational manner. The latter will likely use the weapon at inappropriate times, in an inappropriate manner, or for inappropriate reasons. The latter will allow untrusted individuals to gain access to their weapon. The latter will not practice proper maintenance. The latter will not shoot accurately and judiciously.

    Now, are most people rational or irrational?

    Do those numbers skew when said people are presented with dangerous or stressful situations? How can weapons be allowed to rational people and simultaneously disallowed to irrational people? Are the benefits of the rational armed population worth the drawbacks of the irrational armed population?
    Post edited by Rym on
  • Speaking of irrational, have you heard the stuff coming out about this kid? If it's true (setting fire in a dorm room, being hospitalized for mental problems and being on suicide watch while hospitalized, etc.), wouldn't even the most fervent gun people agree that he shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun?
  • wouldn't even the most fervent gun people agree that he shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun?
    He purchased it legally, so I can't wait to see what happens when the media gets ahold of the seller.
  • wouldn't even the most fervent gun people agree that he shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun?
    He purchased it legally, so I can't wait to see what happens when the media gets ahold of the seller.
    I saw the seller on TV in the laundromat last night. They didn't give him much of a hard time. He did a pretty good job of defending himself. If he wasn't lying, and I don't think he was, and I was in his place, I would have also sold the gun to this kid.
  • I saw an interview with the seller. He basically said that the kid's Brady check panned out, so the sale was legal. The guy was very matter of fact - which is entirely reasonable. It's not like the gun dealer should have known about this kid's background. If the dealer starts discriminating based on hunches, we all know that he'd be sued in a nanosecond.
  • edited April 2007
    wouldn't even the most fervent gun people agree that he shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun?
    He purchased it legally, so I can't wait to see what happens when the media gets ahold of the seller.
    Sure, he purchased it legally, but a quick check should have shown that he was hospitalized very recently. Would it really be too restrictive to not allow people who've been recently hospitalized on suicide watch to buy guns? If only for their own protection?
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • So the government should be keeping ban lists? They should be compiling these lists by looking at your confidential medical records? Your views about this subject are inconsistent with your libertine attitudes on most topics, Joe.
  • Please read thispageand thispage.
    More people with guns means more gun related violence. At least in the USA. That's a conclusion easily arrived at even without these links. I don't like guns but I find that I am of two minds about gun control. It falls along the same lines as drug laws and drinking ages and ages of consent worldwide to me. The U.S.A is stricter than most countries in the world when it comes these laws yet it has the most problems. The Netherlands hasn't fallen into the sea or been engulfed in flame as far as I can tell. It's not so simple to say guns cause violence. The amount of guns that exist in the USA is comparable to any other "leading" nation. However the gun related violence skyrockets in comparison to the same in other countries. I'm sure you guys have seen Bowling for Columbine and the research within it.

    This is a societal problem and creating laws to control guns would hardly be a band aid for a wound with gangrene about to set it. Think about Prohibition and then think about bootlegging. It is the people that need to be affected. Education needs to be improved as well as access to education. The quality of life needs to be addressed as well. When human beings' basic needs are not met, the resulting misery causes them to do horrible things (with the exception of mental illness). Many people would like to divorce Cho's actions at Virginia Tech from the rest of the world but it cannot be done. Perhaps he grew up in a cave alone somewhere and then came and killed 32 people. It would be nice to think he's an anomaly in an otherwise smoothly running (haha) world. The reality is that no one lives in a vacuum. Everyone in this world is connected and everyone's actions affects everyone else.

    My university will be holding a vigil and then a forum about the security at my campus. About 14,000 students there. I'm hoping their plans of action, if such a thing occurred, would not include emailing students about the presence of a shooter while we're already at class or out and about on campus. Some people go days without checking email. I'm still in a WTF stage about that tidbit.
  • edited April 2007
    What amazes me is that a single person could shoot over 60 people with two lousy handguns. Assuming the guns didn't have law enforcement clips, that's 10 rounds at most per gun (including one in the chamber). He hit most people multiple times. When you factor in the accuracy (or lack thereof) of handguns, this is downright amazing. Landing at least 120 shots, while reloading 11 or more times... and NOBODY was able to stop this guy? That's what boggles my mind. I'm not second guessing. I'm sure that I'd be cowering under my desk. But it's still absolutely amazing.

    As for the hospitalization issue. I have no problem enacting a purchasing ban for people recently hospitalized with mental issues. However, the gun store owner was still following the law.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • I think that only two things need to be done with current gun control.
    1. Foreigners are not allowed to buy guns in the US
    What's wrong with foreigners...oh wait I've got US citizenship, fuck foreigners.
  • 1. Foreigners are not allowed to buy guns in the US
    I'm pretty sure that he was a U.S Citizen. The news said he had a Virginia State Drivers license.
  • edited April 2007
    I'm pretty sure that he was a U.S Citizen. The news said he had a Virginia State Drivers license.
    You don't have to be a citizen to get a driver's license. He was a resident alien.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • edited April 2007
    So the government should be keeping ban lists? They should be compiling these lists by looking at your confidential medical records? Your views about this subject are inconsistent with your libertine attitudes on most topics, Joe.
    The article says he was taken to a mental health facility after the university received complaints against him and others were concerned he might commit suicide. This wasn't a case of a person seeking help for themselves or checking themselves into a facility voluntarily. Involuntary commitments are not necessarily privileged in VA. A check that would show involuntary commitments would not show confidential records as the involuntariness breaks the confidentiality. Do you really think that such a check would not be too restrictive? Or do you think that people who have been involuntarily commited for concerns that they might harm themselves or others whould be allowed to purchase firearms? Maybe a time limit would make you feel better. Maybe the commitment should only have been within the last five or ten years. That would've still stopped this guy.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • You don't have to be a citizen to get a driver's license. He was a resident alien.
    Thanks.
  • 1. Foreigners are not allowed to buy guns in the US
    I'm pretty sure that he was a U.S Citizen. The news said he had a Virginia State Drivers license.
    I heard he was just a guy with a green card.
    What amazes me is that a single person could shoot over 60 people with two lousy handguns. Assuming the guns didn't have law enforcement clips, that's 10 rounds at most per gun (including one in the chamber). He hit most people multiple times. When you factor in the accuracy (or lack thereof) of handguns, this is downright amazing. Landing at least 120 shots, while reloading 11 or more times... and NOBODY was able to stop this guy? That's what boggles my mind. I'm not second guessing. I'm sure that I'd be cowering under my desk. But it's still absolutely amazing.
    While that is indeed the sign of good marksmanship, it is not so amazing to me. What amazes me the most is how long it took something like this to happen. In most shootings like this in the past, e.g: Columbine, the murderers had terrible marksmanship. I remember when Columbine happened I actually said "Imagine how much worse it would have been if those guys could aim." Well, we don't need to imagine anymore. At least I can rest easy knowing that the vast majority of people with good marksmanship are the least likely to go on murder sprees.
  • Sure, he purchased it legally, but a quick check should have shown that he washospitalizedvery recently. Would it really be too restrictive to not allow people who've been recently hospitalizedon suicide watchto buy guns? If only for their own protection?
    Eerily enough, two girls reported Cho as harassing/stalking them through phone calls etc before this event.

    This happened to someone who was supposed to be my roommate when I lived on campus over two years ago. She was moved to another dorm and directory excluded so that no one could look up her whereabouts on our then public university directory online. She and her stalker were both Asian. Her stalker showed up on campus looking for her while I was moving in. I always remember that he smelled to high heaven of cigarettes. The dorms were open because it was move in day. He walked into the room and copied the number off of the phone. He showed up a couple of times after and then continued to call asking for his stalkee. Later I was contacted by the girl's friend and then by the police. The police said to contact them if he called or showed up again. When asked they said he was dangerous and had assaulted the girl. He had followed this girl up from the city (in fact my neck of the woods) and was not a student. No one knew how he managed to get inside the secured dorms after move in day. My suitemates and I had all seen him more than once. When I requested that my number be changed, the police said that they might want me to talk to him. They also requested that I didn't tell anyone about this incident because of the danger to this girl.

    Of course, this is when I told all of my suitemates and they told their parents (who went as crazy as my mother) and we kept our suite door closed from that moment on. I told my Resident Adviser and Resident Director. My mother went ballistic and sent letters to everyone from the President downwards. I told every friend and acquaintance, some professors, and an academic adviser what was going on so that they might know what had happened if I disappeared. My number was changed in an instant and well I moved off campus after that. My university's police and residential life were very lax in their reactions and had this guy been a shooter, at least five people could have been dead because they did not make provisions to protect us and even wanted me to be in contact with this stalker.

    There seems to be more of a concern about "panic" than about people actually dying. It's more important not to cause a panic than it is to prevent death. I believe those who sent the email at Virginia Tech had to have known the small amount of people that email would have reached on a Monday morning.
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