I see this new product as a high-performance car with no seat or steering wheel.
Yeah, the demo's look cool and all but how well does it work if a casual person just walks up to it? Can I use any Bluetooth device I want to with it or only ones it recognizes ahead of time? If I set my camera down on it will ALL of my photo's just spill out whether I want them to or not?
It looks pretty but I reserve my judgement until I see the applications that will run on it.
WiP, before a flame war ensues allow me to show you why I'm right. Microsoft in its current state with its current business practices is almost incapable of making an innovative product without hampering it with things that doesn't make sense, such as DRM (Zune, Vista), unintuitive (Zune media store), completely unfit for anyone to use (the UMPCs) etc... This isn't all Microsoft's fault, the atmosphere of patents and law suits makes it very hard to do anything innovative or make any decent moves.
XBox 360, you lose.
I see this new product as a high-performance car with no seat or steering wheel.
I've had a similar thought, though probably for a different reason - I'm thinking because its not consumer ready yet, its still in development. You don't go shoving all leathers and such into the interior of your car until you've got the rest of it right.
Its a fixed position unit, you couldn't adjust it in any way, because it has to have cameras mounted at very specific angles to do the whole gesture recognition thing. Also, has everyone else forgotten the previous item that touted multi-touch? The same item that set the internet ablaze for a couple of days, and is still a pretty sweet item? That's right, the iPhone has a multi-touch screen, and it should be out in a couple of days.
That's right, the iPhone has a multi-touch screen, and it should be out in a couple of days.
Well, you're a fan boy.
There's really nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. Microsoft has done something awesome for the first time in a while, and for some reason a bunch of you are calling it crap just because Bill Gates got to it before Steve Jobs. If Apple had come out with an identical product, you would all be shitting yourselves over it right now.
well I'll take WiP trying to dodge the fact that Microsoft ruins most innovations as a sign of surrender and move on.
Ill take the XBOX360 as a good product though. Though have you noticed how little XB3 tries to associate with Microsoft. And also no one thought of windows?
One thing I could see the GeekNights crew getting this for is if someone develops an all in one board game table that you just pick a game and use generic pieces (or none at all) and can play one of many games with advantages such as automatic scoring, video tutorials and animated boards.
I hope this gets released as just one device though, If its just a computer with a fancy interface then there should be Linux all over it pretty quickly.
But how does having one of these do something new or better than I already can? It doesn't need a "killer app" It just needs to do something interesting.
I wouldn't mind one of these if it just means I can get a cheapish light box kinda thing to do my drawing on. I could put a stylus on it, press some buttons on the screen to change its properties and start drawing.
The iPhone is a multi touch screen but people have only two thumbs... I can see apple fan boys getting some rather suspect surgery.
Edit: I retract the statement about the XBOX360 not being a bad product, its its just an expensive upgrade and doesn't really do anything that hasn't already been done and isn't done particularly well. Also aplies to Halo 3
well I'll take WiP trying to dodge the fact that Microsoft ruins most innovations as a sign of surrender and move on. Ill take the XBOX360 as a good product though. Though have you noticed how little XB3 tries to associate with Microsoft. And also no one thought of windows?
I didn't dodge anything, I was merely pointing out that the arguments you have for one company could apply to any company. You also state that just because they fucked up before, they are going to fuck up this time. Argumentum ad antiquitatem my friend. gguninstall
Edit: I retract the statement about the XBOX360 not being a bad product, its its just an expensive upgrade and doesn't really do anything that hasn't already been done and isn't done particularly well.
Online gaming, emulators and chat functions... oooh innovative. And I can play yet more shooters.
But seriously, has the XB3 done anything that I cant do or do so well/easily anywhere else before?
"Argumentum ad antiquitatem my friend. gguninstall"
If a gun fires perfectly 1x10^100 times and someone points it at your head, do you honestly think that works?
The more assumptions you make (I am making observations, you are making assumptions which go against observations) the less likely it is true.
Look, this isnt going anywhere but I will gladly bet £10 that this is not heralded as a success when it is released. If you are unwilling to match me just £10 then I honestly question your convictions.
To stop this going any further feel free to add me on msn, its hotmail@omnutia.com [the other way round.] I am willing to listen to reasonable argument. Such arguments rarely involve the word "Pwned".
Online gaming, emulators and chat functions... oooh innovative. And I can play yet more shooters. But seriously, has the XB3 done anything that I cant do or do so well/easily anywhere else before?
What are these other places you talk about? I know of no system, console or PC, that has integrated a friends feature so broadly across such a wide verity of games and genres. You have achievements you can earn by playing games both on and off-line. You have a gamer card that shows how well you have done on the games you owned, as well as your reputation which you can share pretty much anywhere on the web. It has a standard for VOIP which makes it easy to voice chat without third party clients (Teamspeak and Vent for example). It has a store where you can download, demo, and purchase small games with a whole currency system to reduce the number small credit card transactions. This is just the beginning. All on ONE system, hell you don't even have to pay for it. Do tell, where in one system that is released can you do this? Or are you just making broad generalizations without any facts to back them up? Also, if you think the only games the 360 has are shooters, then you really are ignorant. Besides, if that is what sells, whats wrong with them? It's not Microsoft you should blame for the game selection, blame the devs. Most of what Microsoft does is just develop the platform.
If a gun fires perfectly 1x10^100 times and someone points it at your head, do you honestly think that works? In the sense of companies a turn around takes much longer, its going to take gradual improvements to counter the bureaucracy.
A buisness is not a gun, your argument is still flawed. Do you even know what bureaucracy is? It has nothing to do with businesses. Zero, zip, nada. Companies can, and often, turn around based on a single product.
To stop this going any further feel free to add me on msn, its hotmail@omnutia.com the other way round. I am willing to listen to reasonable argument. Such arguments rarely involve the word "Pwned".
No one here has an issue with hearing an argument. Don't feel as if you need to move this somewhere else, unless you are afraid you will be embarrassed. They say if you can't take the heat, get out of the oven.
Wikipedia has a nice article on MS Surface I'm not a artist and could care less about the photos and map features. But it would be great to see what game developers could do with MS Surface. I remember seeing some video using this type of technology and they had Warcraft III loaded up. It was pretty cool.
To stop this going any further feel free to add me on msn, its hotmail@omnutia.com [the other way round.] I am willing to listen to reasonable argument. Such arguments rarely involve the word "Pwned".
You argue that Microsoft sucks and you use MSN and hotmail! Congratulations on defeating yourself.
Not all Microsoft software sucks... Like Apreche pointed out, you use their e-mail... You can't exactly diss their programs. Where would you be right now if Microsoft had never started their company? Well... don't answer that.
On another note, I got braces on the bottom of my teeth today, and they hurt. =(
I am willing to listen to reasonable argument. Such arguments rarely involve the word "Pwned".
Well, that's an odd thing to say, when not long before that, you said
well I'll take WiP trying to dodge the fact that Microsoft ruins most innovations as a sign of surrender and move on.
One would think most reasonably arguments don't include Accusations, Unwarranted assumptions, and considering your opponent defeated before they are even half started.
"You argue that Microsoft sucks and you use MSN and hotmail! Congratulations on defeating yourself."
Funnily enough I like Microsoft, they just seem incapable right now of doing anything new.
I still stand by my conclusion based on what Microsoft has been doing up until this point and shows no sign of changing.
The "Surface" cannot and will not be a cool and innovative product. If it is I will stand corrected and will give £10 to the GeekNights fund or anyone who is willing to pledge the same amount in opposition (this excludes Rym and Scott).
I am not afraid to be embarrassed and wouldn't mind being proved wrong. I want this to be as cool as it can but feel Microsoft is incapable of doing so. I also believe you are incapable of formulating a solid argument to oppose me as you have resorted to simply picking at mine.
The reason for wanting to move out of this thread is to not block it up for the people thinking of cool ideas (which will not come to pass). I am somewhat new here and was unsure whether starting a new thread in flamewars would be a better idea.
[Opening new thread in flamewars, Please reserve this thread for ideas on the Microsoft surface]
"You argue that Microsoft sucks and you use MSN and hotmail! Congratulations on defeating yourself." Funnily enough I like Microsoft, they just seem incapable right now of doing anything new.
I still stand by my conclusion based on what Microsoft has been doing up until this point and shows no sign of changing. The "Surface" cannot and will not be a cool and innovative product. If it is I will stand corrected and will give £10 to the GeekNights fund or anyone who is willing to pledge the same amount in opposition (this excludes Rym and Scott).
I am not afraid to be embarrassed and wouldn't mind being proved wrong. I want this to be as cool as it can but feel Microsoft is incapable of doing so. I also believe you are incapable of formulating a solid argument to oppose me as you have resorted to simply picking at mine.
You can't really say that it won't be a "cool and innovative product" considering: 1) You haven't even actually seen it. 2) It's a whole new system using camera's. It's innovative no matter how you look at it.
I still stand by my conclusion based on what Microsoft has been doing up until this point and shows no sign of changing. The "Surface" cannot and will not be a cool and innovative product. If it is I will stand corrected and will give £10 to the GeekNights fund or anyone who is willing to pledge the same amount in opposition (this excludes Rym and Scott).
It's hard to be surprised by innovation when you make up your mind beforehand.
I am not afraid to be embarrassed and wouldn't mind being proved wrong. I want this to be as cool as it can but feel Microsoft is incapable of doing so. I also believe you are incapable of formulating a solid argument to oppose me as you have resorted to simply picking at mine.
You make bullshit assumptions. I have trouble seeing what is not a "solid" argument from my standpoint. I'm not the one spewing off logical fallacies left and right.
Oh, and I'm going to assume you surrendered since you dodged my last question.
Look, this isnt going anywhere but I will gladly bet £10 that this is not heralded as a success when it is released. If you are unwilling to match me just £10 then I honestly question your convictions.Thanks very much for doing all that talking for me, WIP, but you missed one. This here is what they call a strawman. You are making the assumption that I am not willing to bet on the success of the Surface, therefore my conclusions are not credible.
You know Sail, you might want to actually read posts before you open your mouth and talk crap. Am I an Apple fanxboy? Yes, you can see from my pics that I have the Apple logo tattooed on the bac of my neck. Literally. However, I never said that Surface was crap, or poo-poo it in general. Someone asked about adjusting the angle of the thing, and I had read enough on the website to know that it uses cameras to do the gesture recognition. Also, I mentioned that this is not the first commercialization of multi-touch technology, and gave an example. If you think I'm up to nothing but MS bashing, look at my profile here. See that Gamer Card there? You know what that means? I'd imagine that means that I have both purchased AND used MS products. And have you ever sene me bash MS before? I doubt it. Hell, I went back to XP from Ubuntu on my gaming rig. I PREFER OS X or linux, but I use the best tool for the job available to me. It's like my phone, which runs WM 5, because I can't afford to shell out almost a weeks salary for an iPhone.
I think I misunderstood your implication originally. You said:
Its a fixed position unit, you couldn't adjust it in any way, because it has to have cameras mounted at very specific angles to do the whole gesture recognition thing. Also, has everyone else forgotten the previous item that touted multi-touch? The same item that set the internet ablaze for a couple of days, and is still a pretty sweet item? That's right, the iPhone has a multi-touch screen, and it should be out in a couple of days.
It was the bolded part that made it seem to me like you were attempting to draw attention away from Microsoft onto Apple. Now I see that you were just making an example.
I apologize. I had just read a thread full of unfounded nay-sayers, and I just took you as one of them by mistake.
Popular Mechanics got to visit the demo labs for MS Surface. The units are ranging in price form 5,000 to 10,000 dollars. Considering it's being targeted for the commercial market, it's hell of a deal. I'm not rich by any means but I could actually buy one of these units if I really really wanted one. I would be the envy of all geeks.
Comments
Yeah, the demo's look cool and all but how well does it work if a casual person just walks up to it? Can I use any Bluetooth device I want to with it or only ones it recognizes ahead of time? If I set my camera down on it will ALL of my photo's just spill out whether I want them to or not?
It looks pretty but I reserve my judgement until I see the applications that will run on it.
XBox 360, you lose.
This thing still needs a killer app (audio/video mixing) and some non-scripted demos.
There's really nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. Microsoft has done something awesome for the first time in a while, and for some reason a bunch of you are calling it crap just because Bill Gates got to it before Steve Jobs. If Apple had come out with an identical product, you would all be shitting yourselves over it right now.
Ill take the XBOX360 as a good product though. Though have you noticed how little XB3 tries to associate with Microsoft. And also no one thought of windows?
One thing I could see the GeekNights crew getting this for is if someone develops an all in one board game table that you just pick a game and use generic pieces (or none at all) and can play one of many games with advantages such as automatic scoring, video tutorials and animated boards.
I hope this gets released as just one device though, If its just a computer with a fancy interface then there should be Linux all over it pretty quickly.
But how does having one of these do something new or better than I already can? It doesn't need a "killer app" It just needs to do something interesting.
I wouldn't mind one of these if it just means I can get a cheapish light box kinda thing to do my drawing on. I could put a stylus on it, press some buttons on the screen to change its properties and start drawing.
The iPhone is a multi touch screen but people have only two thumbs... I can see apple fan boys getting some rather suspect surgery.
Edit: I retract the statement about the XBOX360 not being a bad product, its its just an expensive upgrade and doesn't really do anything that hasn't already been done and isn't done particularly well. Also aplies to Halo 3
But seriously, has the XB3 done anything that I cant do or do so well/easily anywhere else before?
"Argumentum ad antiquitatem my friend. gguninstall"
If a gun fires perfectly 1x10^100 times and someone points it at your head, do you honestly think that works?
The more assumptions you make (I am making observations, you are making assumptions which go against observations) the less likely it is true.
Look, this isnt going anywhere but I will gladly bet £10 that this is not heralded as a success when it is released. If you are unwilling to match me just £10 then I honestly question your convictions.
To stop this going any further feel free to add me on msn, its hotmail@omnutia.com [the other way round.] I am willing to listen to reasonable argument. Such arguments rarely involve the word "Pwned".
You argue that Microsoft sucks and you use MSN and hotmail! Congratulations on defeating yourself.
On another note, I got braces on the bottom of my teeth today, and they hurt. =(
"You argue that Microsoft sucks and you use MSN and hotmail! Congratulations on defeating yourself."
Funnily enough I like Microsoft, they just seem incapable right now of doing anything new.
I still stand by my conclusion based on what Microsoft has been doing up until this point and shows no sign of changing.
The "Surface" cannot and will not be a cool and innovative product. If it is I will stand corrected and will give £10 to the GeekNights fund or anyone who is willing to pledge the same amount in opposition (this excludes Rym and Scott).
I am not afraid to be embarrassed and wouldn't mind being proved wrong. I want this to be as cool as it can but feel Microsoft is incapable of doing so. I also believe you are incapable of formulating a solid argument to oppose me as you have resorted to simply picking at mine.
The reason for wanting to move out of this thread is to not block it up for the people thinking of cool ideas (which will not come to pass). I am somewhat new here and was unsure whether starting a new thread in flamewars would be a better idea.
[Opening new thread in flamewars, Please reserve this thread for ideas on the Microsoft surface]
1) You haven't even actually seen it.
2) It's a whole new system using camera's. It's innovative no matter how you look at it.
Oh, and I'm going to assume you surrendered since you dodged my last question.
Ok, I'm going to chill out for a bit. Please switch to the new thread to free things up.
I apologize. I had just read a thread full of unfounded nay-sayers, and I just took you as one of them by mistake.