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What language should one learn?

HungryJoeHungryJoe
edited July 2007 in Suggestions
If one had some extra time and felt ambitious, what language would be best/most practical to learn? I mean spoken languages, and I already understand how useful Spanish would be, so no Spanish suggestions please. It's just too easy a suggestion.

I'm somewhat attracted to Mandarin, but which would be best for business/technology: Mandarin or Cantonese? Would German be better than French?
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Comments

  • JasonJason
    Japanese. I don't think there's any way to overestimate the importance of Japanese culture and economic power as we see ever-increasing globalization.
  • AndrewAndrew
    Japanese. I don't think there's any way to overestimate the importance of Japanese culture and economic power as we see ever-increasing globalization.
    I disagree. I would go with one of the two Chinese languages, although I'm not sure of the differences between the two. China is positioning itself to be one of the next super powers, so I would think that either Mandarin or Cantonese would be a great asset.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited July 2007
    Japanese. I don't think there's any way to overestimate the importance of Japanese culture and economic power as we see ever-increasing globalization.
    Japanese and Mandarin/Cantonese are at the top of the list.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2007
    As a native English speaker, you will find that a ton of other people learn to speak English. It really is becoming a global language. (If a German businessman goes to Tokyo, guess what language he will likely be using...) No flames... I know that a ton of people never learn English, but I can't imagine learning Mandarin or Cantonese would be worth it since you ought to be able to find someone in those countries that speaks English. It's not always easy, but it's certainly easier than learning the language yourself. (At least in my travels.) Unless you are going to spend some serious time in those places, I just don't see it being worth the effort. That's why I would choose to learn a language from a culture that does not yet place a high value on English.

    I personally think that Arabic would be very interesting. I'd love to be able to read all of those extremist webpages and to listen to raw Al Jazeera.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    YES! Spanish is the way to go, specially if you are interested in learning other languages, once you master English and Spanish, the other languages are easier to learn.

    I always wanted to learn Russian.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited July 2007
    . . . I can't imagine learning Mandarin or Cantonese would be worth it since you ought to be able to find someone in those countries that speaks English. It's not always easy, but it's certainly easier than learning the language yourself. (At least in my travels.) . . .
    I'm not so much talking about travel, but business here at home. I've been doing these document review projects for about a year now, and I OFTEN see ads looking for people to do Mandarin document reviews at $50.00 per hour plus overtime.

    Quote from an email:

    *snip*
    Lexolution is recruiting for a project requiring an attorney fluent or
    nearly fluent in Mandarin Chinese who is licensed in DC; pending in
    DC; or licensed in NY, to start immediately. Ten hours/day; about
    2-3 weeks. Located downtown.

    Rate: $50/hour plus time and one half for OT.

    Contact:

    Karen Stempel
    kstempel@lexolution .net

    -DC Metro Contract Attorneys Yahoo Group
    *snip*

    The only reason I haven't learned it yet is that I imagine just conversational Mandarin would be hard. Legal documents in Mandarin would probably be a nightmare.

    I've also done a litle (very litle so far) patent review work, and I saw a LOT of Mandarin flying back and forth.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • KilarneyKilarney
    Japanese. I don't think there's any way to overestimate the importance of Japanese culture and economic power as we see ever-increasing globalization.
    I agree that the Japanese economy is extremely important, but Japan is on the wane. China is going to make their economy look like a third world economy.

    There are a couple of fundamental problems that Japan has to work through:
    1) Efficiency: My brother has worked in Japan for an international corporation for quite a while, and the stories he tells would shock you. The Japanese are still struggling to rid themselves of the "one job for life" mentality. They also don't value standing out in a crowd, which stifles innovation. Nobody wants to take a risk or draw attention to themselves. I could tell you numerous stories, but let's just say that the Chinese are embracing the global marketplace better.
    2) The Economy: Japan's economy is in big trouble. People are aging and nobody is having children. In the US, this works out fine since we have immigration. Japan has barely any immigration. Anyone who has taken Economics 101 can tell you that this is a recipe for disaster. It's just a matter of time. (NOVA did a fascinating special on this.)

    Sadly, Japan's heyday is over. China is where it's at. My brother can't believe how quickly and efficiently the Chinese act compared to the Japanese. He says it's like the wild west with money flowing everywhere. Nobody questions how much something will cost, they just question how quickly it can be done.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    and I OFTEN see ads looking for people to do Mandarin document reviews at $50.00 per hour plus overtime.
    You'll be competing with bi-linguals or native speakers that learned English at a young age. Again... I just don't see the payoff.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    China is where it's at. My brother can't believe how quickly and efficiently the Chinese act compared to the Japanese. He says it's like the wild west with money flowing everywhere. Nobody questions how much something will cost, they just question how quickly it can be done.
    That's why Mandarin is attractive. Or do they do business in English? Surely not.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    Well, there is the benefit of being bilingual just for the sake of it, your brain works better and remains healthier.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2007
    Or do they do business in English? Surely not.
    Yes, they do business in English. This is often done via a translator, but the expectation is that English will be used. I suppose if you believe that you'll be doing large multi-national deals in China and want to eliminate the possibility of a translator, you could learn Mandarin... but again, I'm not seeing the effort being worth it.

    I stick with my Arabic recommendation. I think you could learn a lot about the people if you could understand Arabic. I also suspect that there must be growing employment opportunities for Arabic translators. Heck... You could make $176,000 per year if you're willing to work in Iraq! It's just a little bit dangerous. You'll just have to decide if $176,000 per year is worth it. (I believe much of it is tax-free.)
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • AndrewAndrew
    edited July 2007
    I stick with my Arabic recommendation. I think you could learn a lot about the people if you could understand Arabic. I also suspect that there must be growing employment opportunities for Arabic translators. Heck... You could make $150,000 per year tax-free if you're willing to work in Iraq! I just hear that the neighborhood isn't quite as safe as it used to be. ;-)
    I have very seriously considered learning Arabic. I'm sure I could get almost any government job I wanted with a security clearance and knowledge of the Arabic language.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • StarfoxStarfox
    C
    C++
    Java

    Probably Pig Latin too.
  • NeitoNeito
    If just for shits and giggles, why not Loglan?
  • KilarneyKilarney
    Heck... I'm from the generation that though Esperanto had a chance.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited July 2007
    Heck... I'm from the generation that thoughEsperantohad a chance.
    Did you ever read the Stainless Steel Rat novels? They were all very good, but the hero talks quite a lot about how easy it is to communicate since everyone started speaking Esperanto.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • DrexDrex
    edited July 2007
    It all depends on what you plan to do with the language you learn, for example, if you are working in the US Spanish is useful as a second language, while in the business world at the moment English is the language of choice, however, Chinese will be useful to know for the future. On the other hand, if you are learning a new language for pleasure I would suggest something like Gaelic or another dying language.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • HankHank
    I always wanted to learn Russian.
    For conversational where-is-the-toilet-I-need-a-beer sort of stuff, I had some success with the Pimsleur language courses. I worked on the Russian level I and was picking up a fair bit until my Russian gym partner left, leaving me nobody to practice with. The Pimsleur tapes/CD's are in many library systems' collections, and probably out there on a torrent somewhere (not that I'm saying you should steal them). You put it in your player, and talk to nobody in the foreign language.

    The Cyrillic alphabet is pretty easy to learn, and Russian, similar to Spanish, has phonetic spelling. I found it easier to spell Russian words than English or German. The grammar is a little harder (six cases to English's four, if I recall), but there are no articles (a Russian told me "we don't need no the' s or a's"). I like that, as I have a helluva time with the articles in German.
  • HankHank
    I would go with one of the two Chinese languages, although I'm not sure of the differences between the two.
    My understanding is that they are different dialects, both using the same written language, but not mutually intelligible. I imagine something like English and German. I've been told that Mandarin is the dialect to learn, as close to an "official" Chinese language as there is.

    Mandarin is also easier than Cantonese. They are both tonal languages, where the same syllable can mean wildly different things depending on the pitch pattern the speaker uses. Thai is also like this. I think Korean and Japanese are not tonal.

    My teacher in a Russia/China history class I took in high school (basically a History of Commies) used the example of the syllable wu, which--he said--could mean battleship, blanket, soil, or vomit in Mandarin, depending on the pitch pattern. Mandarin has four distinct patterns, Cantonese something like nine. This gets hard to learn as we get older; past a certain age, our brains seem to get trained to not hear the tonal patterns if we've not been brought up with the language. Chinese will be hard for an older (post-30?) person to learn, but probably not impossible. It would probably be best to be immersed, where falling back into English is not an option.

    The South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong English-language newspaper, has a daily news podcast that has a feature called the Mandarin Minute, where a man and a woman teach a few words in Mandarin each day. I found that interesting, as Hong Kong is a Cantonese-speaking place in the heavily Cantonese-speaking south. Maybe they figure Mandarin is simpler to teach us foreign devils.
  • Li_AkahiLi_Akahi
    I would suggest either one of the Chinese languages or Russian.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    Japanese. I don't think there's any way to overestimate the importance of Japanese culture and economic power as we see ever-increasing globalization.
    Japan is still recovering from a recession so I wouldn't say they are becoming an economic power any faster than say China. I discussed this with a teacher and from a purely business point of view Russian is the language to learn as Russia is gaining in economic strength and unlike Chinese there aren't that many Russians overseas already.
    But you should make your decision on how useful a language is going to be to you as an individual.
  • ZeehatZeehat
    Click language for sure.
  • ZeehatZeehat
    edited July 2007
    Wait, Afrikaans or Sign language also.
    Post edited by Zeehat on
  • SymmetrySymmetry
    An interesting thing I've noticed is that knowing Spanish has made learning Japanese a bit easier. The grammatical levels of politeness in Japanese and the "here," "there by you," "way over there" trichotomy map to Spanish much more naturally than they do to English and the sounds are more similar in some ways. The downside of this is now I keep slipping in Japanese words when I try to talk in Spanish :(
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    I told you so, Spanish is a great platform for learning other languages
  • MamathMamath
    Mandarin is the dialect that the Chinese government is pushing so it's probably the better choice if you go for Chinese. However, while the spoken dialects are different they are pretty much the same when written. As in, a native Cantonese speaker will be able to understand the writing of a native Mandarin speaker. They're the same. This is why Chinese TV shows with Chinese soundtracks also have Chinese subtitles.

    Learning Chinese would be no good to you if you're not going to use it though. Do you actually see yourself engaging with Chinese speakers in the future? Even if you do, they'll probably speak pretty good English anyway. Are you interested in Chinese media and would actually read/watch it to keep your skills up over time? *shrugs*
  • cosmicenemacosmicenema
    Canadian.
  • Our_Time_Is_NowOur_Time_Is_Now
    Yuppers. Canadian would be the easiest. lol! I think that Italian is a really cool language. It sounds really pleasing to the ear. I don't personally know the language, but it is really close to Spanish and shouldn't be to hard for a beginning language. You would get to know a lot of Spanish just because of how similar they are. That would be my choice. Or Japanese, just so you could watch all the Japanese TV shows and get them earlier because they aren't subed. lol.
  • YoshoKatanaYoshoKatana
    From an English speaker's perspective, I think Spanish is easier to learn than Italian. Italian has a few quirks, such as "gli" and "ce vs. che" which English speakers have trouble with. Spanish is much closer to English in this regard, and is also a good jumping off point for other languages. Right now I'm learning Spanish (easy), Italian (easy) both for family. I'm learning Japanese for fun and profit (medium). I'm also dipping into Polish and Farsi (which my friends speak. Both are Medium-Hard) I'm very slowly learning Chinese (Mandarin, Cantonese is very rough by comparison, In my opinion), which is 'hard'.

    If I wanted to learn some common languages, I'd do it in this order:
    English (native)
    Spanish
    Italian
    Esperanto
    French
    German
    Russian
    Japanese
    Polish
    Arabic
    Farsi
    Korean
    Mandarin Chinese
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    You think Italian is easier than German? I had four semesters of German in college and it wasn't that bad.

    Also, Carole is Sicilian. Her dad was born in Sicily. He couldn't speak English 'til he was fourteen years old. Italian might be a possibility.

    If French is easier than German, I might try that as well. However, I'd be a lot more interested in Cajun French than European French. I'm sure there are some differences.

    Mandarin and Japanese sound so good though. Maybe instead of really learning them, I'll kinda learn some conversational things, just to be able to throw a few words around.
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