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Michael Vick

edited August 2007 in Politics
Do we hate this guy or what? Is it possible to forgive him?
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Comments

  • This is a situation where I believe the old testament "eye for an eye" legal system should be used.
  • I think this story falls into Paris Hilton territory. The only reason it's a story is because we know Vick's name. Otherwise, who the hell cares? Let the court take care of him.
  • Forgive him for dog fighting? He did a bad thing and now he's getting punished for it. It's not like he killed Jesus.
  • Forgive him for dog fighting? He did a bad thing and now he's getting punished for it. It's not like he killed Jesus.
    Are you sure? One of those dogs could have been spanish.
  • It's not like he killed Jesus.
    Many people get very worked up over animal abuse. Also, a willingness to abuse animals is just one step away from a willingness to hurt or abuse people.
  • Animal abuse is a "gateway crime" to bigger and badder abuse crimes.
  • How about we get worked up about the hundreds (or thousands) of people that DO abuse other poeple before we cruficy dog fighters?

    I understand that being incensed by animal abuse and people abuse are not mutually exclusive, but can we show some perspective? It sucks that he hurt the cute wittle puppies. He's being punished for it. Maybe he's not being punished enough, but I doubt we'll ever see him in the NFL again.

    AND NOW DONOVAN MCNABB IS THE BEST BLACK QUATERBACK IN THE LEAGUE. YEAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

  • AND NOW DONOVAN MCNABB IS THE BEST BLACK QUATERBACK IN THE LEAGUE. YEAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
    Eagles suck.
  • They didn't used to... :(
  • They didn't used to... :(
    Have the Eagles ever been the Giants? No, they have always been the Eagles. Therefore, they have always sucked.
  • Have they ever been the Browns? No? Therefore, they do not suck.
  • They didn't used to... :(
    Have the Eagles ever been the Giants? No, they have always been the Eagles. Therefore, they have always sucked.
    Ever? As in...ever? A quick google search tells me that the Eagles beat the Giants in 1960, 1971, 1978 (2x), 1989 (2x), 2001 (2x) and 2003. This was by no means exhaustive since the Eagles have been playing and beating up New Yorkers since 1933.


  • Ever? As in...ever? A quick google search tells me that the Eagles beat the Giants in 1960, 1971, 1978 (2x), 1989 (2x), 2001 (2x) and 2003. This was by no means exhaustive since the Eagles have been playing and beating up New Yorkers since 1933.
    Sucking in sports has nothing to do with winning and losing. It has to do with the fact that I was born in Queens, NY. Therefore, if your team is not the NY Mets, NY Giants, or NY Rangers, it sucks. It sucks double if it is a rival of any of the teams just mentioned.
  • Like the Yankees! Damn overpaid A-Rod and over-appreciated Jeeter.
    (Go Sox.)
  • What about the Dodgers?
  • What about the Dodgers?
    Only from Brooklyn.
  • I had no idea who he was before this happened, I really only have a vague idea still. At least our sports people only abuse women.


  • Ever? As in...ever? A quick google search tells me that the Eagles beat the Giants in 1960, 1971, 1978 (2x), 1989 (2x), 2001 (2x) and 2003. This was by no means exhaustive since the Eagles have been playing and beating up New Yorkers since 1933.
    Sucking in sports has nothing to do with winning and losing. It has to do with the fact that I was born in Queens, NY. Therefore, if your team is not the NY Mets, NY Giants, or NY Rangers, it sucks. It sucks double if it is a rival of any of the teams just mentioned.
    I hate this idea. Why do our sports have to be so nationalistic? I am from X, therefore I have to like X. Why can't we like who we like based on merit? I grew up in the far wastelands of upstate NY, and when I started liking football around 1986, I was EXPECTED to like the Bills. Instead, I opted for the 49ers, and was immediately branded a traitor. What gives?

    Now I live near Cleveland, and TV coverage has forced me to stop following my beloved 9ers. All that airs are Browns and Bengals games. Great choice there. I get the occasional Steelers game, but who the hell wants to be a fan of Pennsylvania sports?

    That last was a joke -- I've actually rather liked the Eagles for a very practical reason. A friend game me an Eagles Starter cap for my eighth birthday, and a jersey the following year. They've been my backup team.
  • edited August 2007
    I hate this idea. Why do our sports have to be so nationalistic? I am from X, therefore I have to like X. Why can't we like who we like based on merit? I grew up in the far wastelands of upstate NY, and when I started liking football around 1986, I was EXPECTED to like the Bills. Instead, I opted for the 49ers, and was immediately branded a traitor. What gives?
    If you like a team because that's where you live, that's expected because that is the team where you have a good chance of actually attending their games. It would suck pretty hard if I was a Seattle Mariners fan, I'd never see them. As a Mets fan, I can actually go to Shea Stadium often, so it's a practical decision.

    Another good way to choose your favorite team is based on your family. I could easily be a fan of the Jets, Yankees, and Islanders. I am not, because my family was not. Having your family all root for the same team is a good thing. I don't know if there is any causation here, but my immediate family is much closer to our relatives that root for the same sports teams.

    Another acceptable reason to like a sports team over another is perhaps you like the logo. My sister, for example, kind of likes the Pittsburgh Penguins because she likes the penguin. Nothing wrong with that.

    Liking a particular sports team based on merit is what we call being a front-runner. I remember in elementary school, there would be kids who were always fans of whatever team was doing really well. Cowboys won a couple of Super Bowls in the early 90's, and every kid was suddenly wearing the jersey. Then the Chicago Bulls won a few championships, and everyone was wearing a Bull's hat. When you are a front-runner, you don't actually have allegiance to the team, you just want to be a winner. A real fan supports their team through thick and thin. Chicago Cubs fans, for example, are quite respectable in this regard.

    Also, being a front-runner cheats yourself out of some of the joy in sports. Victory becomes a lot less sweet when you get used to it. When you win the Stanley Cup for the first time in 50+ years, and you've been with the team the whole time, that is where the joy of being a sports fan comes from.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Having your family all root for the same team is a good thing.
    Ooooh, I don't know about that. My dad is a Cowboys fan, my mother is a Redskins fan, and I (was) a 49ers fan -- making for one of the best intra-household football rivalries ever. Dallas and San Fran would inevitably end up in the NFC championship game, leading to some of the best times I ever had with my dad. Most Sunday afternoons were spent in front of the TV together, with all of us in different team gear, shit-talking about who was going down.
    Liking a particular sports team based on merit is what we call being a front-runner.
    Hey, I'm not advocating fair weather fan-ery. I'm just saying that the 49ers were rising when I became interested in football, and I became enamored with them because the Montana and Rice (and John Taylor) offense was unlike anything else in football. Montana invented the West Coast offense, the rollout, and proved that a QB could be more than just a good arm -- he had to be able to put his head down and rush, too. I stuck with the 9ers through some really, really, REALLY shit years, until I could no longer see the games.

    Merit doesn't always equal winner. I liked the Utah Jazz for many, many years because they were the underdogs. I thought Stockton, this short white punk, should be getting his ass wiped all over the court. He didn't. That really appealed to me.

    When the Rangers and Bruins were dominating the NHL, I defected to the Candiens. When they won, it was more due to Roy's skills in the goal, not brute strength or size. The Canadiens were not big scorers in the 90s. They won through strategy. Merit.
  • I always think of sports - in their purest form - being us against them. It's our side against your side. Being from the North-East, it's easier to see because the sports teams were originally blue collar teams built to give pride to the city. When the Phillies beat the Pirates, it meant that Philly was the best city in Pennsylvania. When the Eagles beat the Giants it meant that Pennsylvania was far superior to New York State. Same thing when Georgia Tech wins for me. Means the other team got beat by a bunch of nerds.
  • I always think of sports - in their purest form - being us against them. It's our side against your side. Being from the North-East, it's easier to see because the sports teams were originally blue collar teams built to give pride to the city. When the Phillies beat the Pirates, it meant that Philly was the best city in Pennsylvania. When the Eagles beat the Giants it meant that Pennsylvania was far superior to New York State. Same thing when Georgia Tech wins for me. Means the other team got beat by a bunch of nerds.
    That might make sense if the players were all from the city/state where the team is located. They're not. The draft means that almost all players are ringers. In reality, it just means that Pennsylvania had purchased the best recruiters.
  • I always think of sports - in their purest form - being us against them. It's our side against your side. Being from the North-East, it's easier to see because the sports teams were originally blue collar teams built to give pride to the city. When the Phillies beat the Pirates, it meant that Philly was the best city in Pennsylvania. When the Eagles beat the Giants it meant that Pennsylvania was far superior to New York State. Same thing when Georgia Tech wins for me. Means the other team got beat by a bunch of nerds.
    That might make senseifthe players were all from the city/state where the team is located. They're not. The draft means that almost all players are ringers. In reality, it just means that Pennsylvania had purchased the best recruiters.
    And in Philadelphian terms, that mean we are teh win. Ringers FTW!
  • Casting some thread necromancy here and attempting to ignore Scott's really dumb derail.

    Why do people hate Vick soooo goddamn much? I remember an episode of The Big Picture in which Moviebob basically crucified the NFL over letting Vick play again, and I just listened to the song "History's greatest assholes" by MC Lars in which Vick is mentioned. Now what he did was seriously fucked up, but the guy also went to prison and served his time for the crime he did plus losing all his endorsement deals and almost his career over it. And it's also not like the guy wasn't surrounded by poverty and crime which kind of breeds this sort of behavior.

    Now, I'm not saying he should be exonerated. He did something illegal and the punishment was deserved. What I don't get is him being essentially pariahed afterward in addition to that. It just seems that the vitriol he gets far outweighs what he actually deserves. Maybe it's just that people have much more sympathy with dogs than with humans, but I've heard of athletes who have done much worse and get far less of a reputation for it. Dany Heatley comes to mind.
  • edited September 2014
    He definitely deserves the heat, but you are right about one thing. He seems to get way more heat than others who absolutely deserve more. Our society is just fucked up that way where some guy can beat his wife, and that's somehow more excusable than harming animals.

    If I owned a business would I hire someone who was found guilty of misdemeanors or felonies who had served out their penalties? I would be lying if I said it wouldn't give me second thoughts, but it wouldn't be an automatic disqualifier. But to be a professional athlete, a supposed role model, I think being clear of all felonies is not too much to ask. You shouldn't be a pariah in all of society, but you should definitely be banned from playing in the NFL or any other major league sport. If you are a thief, who went to jail and served your time, you should be allowed to have a job again, but probably not a job at a bank. Same idea.

    More than the criminal players themselves, I blame the teams that continue to sign criminals to their rosters. It's one thing to have someone on your team and then let them go when they get in trouble (Plaxico Burress, Aaron Hernandez). It's another thing entirely to seemingly intentionally fill your roster with awful human beings like the Eagles always do, or the Bengals did some years back. Let's not forget the worst offender, the Urban Meyer Florida college football teams.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Apreche said:

    More than the criminal players themselves, I blame the teams that continue to sign criminals to their rosters. It's one thing to have someone on your team and then let them go when they get in trouble (Plaxico Burress, Aaron Hernandez). It's another thing entirely to seemingly intentionally fill your roster with awful human beings like the Eagles always do, or the Bengals did some years back. Let's not forget the worst offender, the Urban Meyer Florida college football teams.

    Note that Aaron Hernandez played on those Florida college football teams. Fun fact: Urban Meyer assigned Tim Tebow to be Hernandez's roommate under the hope that rooming with Tebow would help keep him out of trouble.

    I'm also reminded of the old joke that seems to get recycled with new team names every few years: What do you call a group of 11 Dallas Cowboys/Cincinatti Bengals/Philadelphia Eagles? A police line-up.
  • I really dislike the "once a criminal, always a criminal" mentality of our society. Why have formal punishments at all if they're going to be punished in perpetuity? He served his time, let the guy be.
  • edited September 2014

    I really dislike the "once a criminal, always a criminal" mentality of our society. Why have formal punishments at all if they're going to be punished in perpetuity? He served his time, let the guy be.

    I'm not saying that someone who is once a criminal is always a criminal. I'm saying that even if you are someone who has completely reformed into a wonderful human being, there are still certain things you should not be permitted to ever do. Namely, being a celebrity. The glorification of crime is not a good aspect of our society, and I would like it to disappear.

    As I said, a thief, no matter how reformed, should never be permitted to work in a bank. A felon, no matter how reformed, should not be in any position to be a role model to anybody, let alone a major celebrity. Too often we are doing the opposite and people who act immorally and commit crimes get their fame boosted. That is not a good thing.

    That being said, through watching Korean TV I've seen the exact opposite problem. There you'll have celebrities who do basically nothing wrong get severely punished. There are major celebrities who committed minor offences like gambling, messing up their taxes, smoking some weed, and been out of work for years.

    If you think Michael Vick is bad, consider Park Bom.

    http://www.sbs.com.au/popasia/blog/2014/07/01/2ne1-park-bom-drug-scandal-explained

    TL;DR: KPop star had legitimate prescription for medication in the USA. That drug was illegal in Korea because it is an amphetamine. She tried to get some delivered from the US, but got caught by customs. They let her off because of common sense. Multiple years later the media dredged up this old news. She immediately had to quit the TV show she was on and stopped appearing in Korea. Other than a couple concerts outside the country, we haven't seen her since.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Aside: Japan and Korea have really fucked up laws on prescription drugs.
  • I don't know... a former felon may make a good role model, depending on how it's done. As long as said felon was fully reformed and leading a productive life, didn't glorify the past crimes, and was emphasizing how those past crimes nearly cost him/her everything, it may be okay. For example, something along the lines of,

    "I had a good job, a good life, up until the day where I got drunk and beat up that innocent man. I lost everything after that... had to go to jail... lost my freedom, my income, almost my physical life... and once I got out, it took me years to get some semblance of my old life back together again. Take it from me, don't do anything stupid that could get you thrown into jail. It's not worth it."
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