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Hosting

edited May 2006 in Technology
For all of you interested in hosting. We get our hosting from Linode, which we talked about in the episode. Wikipedia also has a really great article on the subject. Now I will offer our advice to anyone who is thinking about getting hosting. Just tell us what you plan on doing with it, and then we'll point you at the best possible solution for your needs.

Comments

  • Let's say I had a computer, and I put Windows Server 2003 on it. Is it true, if I had it hooked up to a broadband connection, that I could have a free domain and storage to host files. All I'd have to pay for is the internet, right, excluding the computer and the OS?
  • edited May 2006
    You wouldn't even need to put Windows Server 2003 on it. You can plug any computer with any OS up to a broadband connection and you'hd have storage and hosting. You just have to setup a webserver like apache or httpd on it if you want to make a website. You put an FTP server on it if you want to store files, etc. Of course, you do have to pay for the broadband and the computer.

    You also have to pay for the domain. They aren't free. Lots of places sell domains. I use gandi.net. All you do is point the domain at the IP address of the computer. If it's behind a NAT router, then you have to use port forwarding for the services you want to provide. If the IP address ever changes, then you need to configure DDNS to make sure that the DNS record is changed to the new IP. Like we said on the show, DDNS kind of works, but it mostly sucks.

    I really don't recommend running a server on a normal broadband connection. We went over a lot of reasons not to do so in the show. One reason I left out was security. For proper hosting you need a computer that is directly connected to the Internet with a static IP. That is the least secure situation that any computer can ever be in. Unless you really know how to configure a server, you will get pwn3d. It's almost a guarantee. There is a reason that hosting costs money and people pay for it.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Is it possible to estimate how much bandwidth you need? For instance I have the best possible Cox internet, however I'm not getting the supposed 9mbps downstream and 1MBps upstream. With that I might do well with a web server, but all the time, I'm getting around 1.5mbps downstream and 256KBps upstream, which sucks, which means I probably can't host a domain. But still, I'm not expecting alot of traffic.
  • edited May 2006
    I think you are a little confused. There are two bandwidths we are talking about here. What you are talking about is speed. Speed is measure in bits per second. 1mbps, aka 1 megabit per second, means you can upload/download 1 million bits of data every second. That's your maximum transfer speed. This number will affect how fast people can get data from your server and how fast they can upload data to your server. It also reflects how many users can use your server simultaneously before the speed is harmed. If you have 1mbps upload and 100 people are getting data from you, then they will get less than 10,000 bits per second each. That's downloading at 10k which is not hot.

    At a hosting facility they have many giant internet connections. They pay a flat fee for those. You share them with everyone else in the hosting facility. Some hosts are faster than others. They don't charge you more or less based on how fast you want to go, that's silly. Everyone shares the same pipe.

    What they charge you is total data transferred. If in the month of April people download 1 billion bits of data from me, that's no big deal. If people download 500 billion bits of data from me, that's a problem. Podcasting and video casting mean you are going to be sending out lots and lots of data. The good thing is that it is really easy to calculate.

    Listeners * episodes * podcast file size = total data transfer.

    Speed on a cable modem is unsatisfactory for any real use. Any non-free hosting from a decent provider will give you more than enough speed. The more total data you transfer in a month the more you have to pay. This is why things like libsyn are so important to podcasting. They only charge you based on how much total podcasting you do. There is no penalty for having a zillion listeners download it as there is with normal hosts.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Amen to that. Services that charge you for bandwidth penalize you for being successful. God help you if digg or CNN mentions you. Leo Laporte told a story on TWiT once how he got a bill for $30,000 because he put TWiT up in the wrong account and got charged for the bandwidth. You wonder how Libsyn can even do it. I heard today that YouTube is burning $1,000,000 a month in bandwidth charges. They only have $11,000,000 in capitalization, enough for 11 months.
  • Alright, I get it. But then again, it's suprememly unlikely that I'll ever 10 people streaming my podcast at once. I realize it splits up all the speed, just like on a network that's sharing an internet connection, but my subscribers and site visitors are so low in number, that it probably wouldn't make a difference. If I was an individual with a really popular, high traffic site, yeah, I'd probably need to send my computer off to somewhere to have it run off a better internet connection.

    Let's say I have 256KBps upstream, and my podcast (mp3) has a 64KBps bit rate. Does that mean, while I'm downloading something, it will subtract that 64 from that 256, approximately, and soak up my speed?
  • Even though Rym and Scott said it was a bad idea to host behind a cable modem, I think it is acceptable to do it if you know that your audience isn't too big. I myself had done it to share pictures that I had taken with my digital camera.

    My disclaimer to doing this is the fact that I had a very small audience (family and friends that actually wanted to see my pictures). I did have to port forward through my router. And I also had to run the webserver on a nonstandard port (my ISP blocks incoming connections to port 80). I know there are free services that will let you share pictures, but there is always stipulations for using them. I was also using the crappy dynamic (free) ip service.

    I would in no way recommend using your cable service to host anything serious beyond "personal use", but it might be fun to have to mess around.

    I had also used konqueror to generate a thumbnail page, so that is an example of someone creating a useful 'static' webpage.
  • edited May 2006
    Let's say I have 256KBps upstream, and my podcast (mp3) has a 64KBps bit rate. Does that mean, while I'm downloading something, it will subtract that 64 from that 256, approximately, and soak up my speed?
    In a word, no. Bitrate means something slightly different when you talk about audio files. If you have a 128kbps mp3, that means that for every second of audio the file will store 128 thousand bits of data. The more bits per unit time, the more information about the sound is in the file. The file will be larger and sound better with a higher bitrate. So if you have an hour-long podcast mp3 encoded at 256kbps, that file will be about 109 Megabytes in size.

    (60 minutes * 60 seconds * 256000 bits) / 8,388,608 bits in a Megabyte

    Someone check my math on that.

    Now, if you were streaming a 64kbps mp3 to one person then yes, it would use 64kbps of your 256kbps upload bandwidth. If someone is downloading the file from you, as opposed to streaming, then it will use all 256kbps until that file is done being transferred. So if you have an episode of your podcast that is 5 megabytes large it will take someone about 3 minutes to download that file from you. If two people were downloading the file from you, then it would take them each about 6 minutes each. etc.

    Of course, all these numbers are just the on-paper numbers. In practice everything will be shittier, slower and less reliable. All the hidden factors like routing, bottlenecks, etc. will come into play. So the actual result will vary wildly.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Isn't each kilobyte 1024 bytes?
  • edited May 2006
    Technically, the prefix "kilo" means 1000, so a kilobyte is 1000 bytes. However, binary computers work most easily with powers of 2, so by long association many people say kilobyte to mean 1024 bytes (2^10). Similar logic holds for mega, giga, tera, etc.

    If you want to be real stickler for standards, 1024 bytes is called a kibibyte (kibi is just shortened from "kilo binary"), while 2^20 bytes is a mebibyte rather than a megabyte, 2^30 bytes is a gibibyte, and so forth. Almost no one uses these, that I've seen (linode.com, the hosting company Rym and Scott use, actually specifies their bandwidth in gibibytes per month rather than gigabytes).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
    Post edited by Alex on
  • It is mibibyte or mebibyte? I never got that quite right.
  • According to the standard that made all these prefixes up (as quoted by the wikipedia article I linked), the prefix is the first two letters of the equivalent SI prefix, followed by 'bi'. So, mega => mebi.
  • edited May 2006
    Not neccessarily. OS's and hardware have different standards for how much a byte is when comparing it to the next step up. For example, Microsoft states that 1024 bytes in a KB. However, most hardware manufacturers who make hard drives, say that there are 1000 bytes in a KB, and 1000 KB's in a MB and so on and so forth.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited May 2006
    Not neccessarily. OS's and hardware have different standards for how much a byte is when comparing it to the next step up. For example, Microsoft states that 1024 bytes in a KB. However, most hardware manufacturers who make hard drives, say that there are 1000 bytes in a KB, and 1000 KB's in a MB and so on and so forth.
    That's not really true. A byte is 8 bits, period. A kilobyte is 1024 bytes and a kibibyte is 1000 bytes. Those are the measurements, nobody disagrees on them.

    Hard drives are a strange case of memory measurement. When a HD manufacturer sells a drive as being 300 gigabytes they mean it's pretty close to 300 gigabytes. The real way to measure hard drives space is cylinders. But nobody will understand you if you sell a hard drive based on the number of cylinders and platters They aren't disagreeing about how much a byte is, they are simply rounding off numbers to make things easier to understand.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Actually, it's mostly due to the hard drive manufacturers wanting to overstate the size of the drives on their packaging without running afoul of false advertising statutes. When they say "300 Gigabytes", they actually mean 300 * 1,000,000,000 * bytes, using the rationale that Giga means 1,000,000,000 in SI.

    Computer scientists, however, define it in a base 2 system instead, where Giga means 2^30 (1,073,741,824). Hence, the discrepancy.
  • You guys don't mind my necrothreading, right?

    Anyway, I need your advice. I currently have a WordPress website that has about 4k-5k unique visitors, and about 30k unique visits each month. We have the site integrated to a large vBulletin forum as well as an Ajax-based Chatroom, which usually has at least 20+ people in it at a time; they all share the same MySQL database. Keep in mind, the site is growing quite quickly, so the numbers keep getting higher and higher.

    Now, unfortunately, it seems as if I keep getting this error, which leads to a Database Error and a crashed site:

    MySQL Error : User 'justinv' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 75000)

    iPowerWeb (the current host we've been using) responded to a ticket with: "We have a maximum concurrent database connection limit of ten. When that limit is reached you would get the error message. Unfortunately this limit cannot be changed as it is in place to ensure acceptable server performance. We are sorry for any inconvenience. Thanks for your time."

    Obviously, it's time for us to ditch iPower for a better host. Do you guys have any recommendations?
  • Question: I'm no hotshot website guy but at roughly how many hits should you start thinking about a dedicated server?
  • I have a blog (not Mental Interface) that I'm thinking about moving from free Wordpress to hosting. I figured I would just buy hosting from GoDaddy when I'm ready. Man this thread is old.
  • Bluehost is also good for hosting a blog.
  • Question: I'm no hotshot website guy but at roughly how many hits should you start thinking about a dedicated server?
    It's not about hits as much as it is about CPU usage. Many hosts offer unlimited bandwidth but will close you down if you use up too much CPU power.

    The big companies are the worst. Take any site hosted with godaddy and do a lookup to see how many other sites are on the same server. Don't be surprised if you see over 1,000 sites hosted on the same server. Not only do you run the risk of other sites causing problems for you due to usage but you also run the risk of problems due to the neighbors on that server. All it takes is one bad neighbor to have the IP of your server blacklisted by email spam services. I had this happen to me and it was a pain in the ass contacted big ISPs to tell them that the sites that were put on the blacklist no longer resided at that IP address. Until I did that my emails were being blocked as spam.

    Another point to look at is how much you spend per site. If you have ten sites and each one costs you $5 per month on shared hosting and you can get a dedicated server for $50 per month why would you not go for it? That is part of what pushed me towards getting my own server.
  • I am personally working on a project that will need hosting eventually...

    (saves thread for later)
  • For the next few hours, it appears Dreamhost has a special deal going on. A year of hosting for $10. Seems like a good deal. I don't have any hosting right now, but have been looking to get some.

    Is there any reason not to go for this? I know dreamhost is real (i.e. not a Nigerian prince, Ponzi scheme, etc.), but that splash page feels shady. UNLIMITED! SIGN UP NOW! Help me out, FRCF.
  • For the next few hours, it appears Dreamhost has a special deal going on. A year of hosting for $10. Seems like a good deal. I don't have any hosting right now, but have been looking to get some.

    Is there any reason not to go for this? I know dreamhost is real (i.e. not a Nigerian prince, Ponzi scheme, etc.), but that splash page feels shady. UNLIMITED! SIGN UP NOW! Help me out, FRCF.
    Jason Scott, aka @textfiles, director of Get Lamp and owner of @sockington, just had a really bad experience with them. They decided he was over quota, deleted one of his sites, and then withheld the backups from him, even after admitting that they had them and that he'd cleared enough space for them to do the restore.
  • For the next few hours, it appears Dreamhost has a special deal going on. A year of hosting for $10. Seems like a good deal. I don't have any hosting right now, but have been looking to get some.

    Is there any reason not to go for this? I know dreamhost is real (i.e. not a Nigerian prince, Ponzi scheme, etc.), but that splash page feels shady. UNLIMITED! SIGN UP NOW! Help me out, FRCF.
    I'm currently on Dreamhost and haven't had any problems, but I'm not a heavy user. I'm mostly with them out of inertia, although I'm willing to accept recommendations on anything better than Dreamhost for my purposes. Looking back at the beginning of the thread, Linode looks cool, but is overkill for what I plan to use a website for (host a couple of blogs, maybe put some of my weekend software projects online, host my AMVs, etc.).

    I do know that their database servers tend to be wonky at times. Anime Boston had enough of their flakiness that they actually migrated (or are going to migrate -- it's been in the works for a while) off of Dreamhost to another provider. No idea who that is though -- I keep forgetting to ask AB's webmaster if it's done yet and who the new provider is.
  • I've been using Dreamhost for the last 5 or 6 years, and I've been completely happy with the service. For how much I pay, I always think there must be some kind of catch, as what I get for my money in terms of storage and bandwidth is bonkers. Many podcasters use services like Lybsyn to serve their audio files, but I've always just thrown mine up on Dreamhost. I just passed 500,000 total downloads of the SFBRP, and still get thousands of downloads from my old Juggling Podcast per month, along with all my photography... and never had any problems, or even approached my bandwidth limits. From what I remember, there has only been two bad server outages in all that time, but that's to be expected from any host, I guess.
  • What kind of hosting do you use? Webhosting or VPS?
  • I don't actually know. I just throw my stuff up and it sticks.
  • I personally use VPS from Ix webhosting and I am really happy with them until now. They have a great customer service team that helped me out in the beginning when I had starting difficulties. I don't pay that much either and I have a great storage and bandwith.
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