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Dwarf Fortress

edited December 2007 in Video Games
Alright, I would have talked about this on tonight's show, but that's not going to happen. Basically, there's this game called Dwarf Fortress. I've known about it for quite some time. I tried to play it once many months ago, but I failed miserably. This game is perhaps the deepest video game there has ever been. It also has perhaps the worst user interface of any video game there has ever been. This is why I failed to play it the first time.

Now for the first time I have succesfully played a little bit of this game thanks to this tutorial. Has anyone else here played, and do you perhaps have wisdom to share? For those of you who have not played, will you try it out, so we can discuss it? The game is a free game for Windows, but it runs in Linux with wine absolutely perfectly. Also, no matter what OS you are using, the game will eat all your CPU. Here is a better description of what the game is like, if you want more info before you decide to try this.

This game is completely nothing like any other game ever, so I really want to see what people think about it.
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Comments

  • I'm a huge fan of roguelikes in general, so I'm probably going to check this out.
  • edited December 2007
    I'm a huge fan of roguelikes in general, so I'm probably going to check this out.
    It's roguelike only in its ASCII. Other than that, it's more like Sim City than it is like Rouge.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • It's Sim Dwarf. Don't dig too deep. ^_~
  • edited December 2007
    It's rouglelike only in its ASCII. Other than that, it's more like Sim City than it is like Rouge.
    Rogue, not rouge. One is a game, the other is a type of cosmetic.
    Post edited by Ilmarinen on
  • edited December 2007
    .
    Post edited by Ilmarinen on
  • So, Scott, you finally became awesome. And it only took one year. Good for you ;)

    Much like most German board games, once you've worked it out it becomes somewhat boring, but working it out takes countless (amazing) hours. You will fail, perhaps many times, before you create a self-sustaining fortress. The wiki is a gift from the FSM, and you will certainly fail in your first attempt without it. And the new version, oh teh complexities!

    This game... aaaah, this game. I think I love it more for its unlimited potential than for what it is right now. If the developer's notes are to be believed, over the next few years, it will become the greatest game ever made. I say that without any sarcasm, equivocation or doubt. If they can pull it off, it will be up there with Citizen Kane, Le Comte De Monte Cristo and The Ring Cycle. But right now, it is merely amazing. And it's only in alpha.
    I'm a huge fan of roguelikes in general, so I'm probably going to check this out.
    The roguelike elements of this game are a bit undercooked at the moment, but like the fortress-building half of the game, big things are in the works. Stay tuned.
  • So, Scott, youfinally became awesome.And it only took one year. Good for you ;)
    Haha, this game is still way too much of an investment. I'm mostly doing just simple stuff like digging, stockpiling, collecting resources, and building basic stuff. I don't know if I'll make it to the later parts of the game, or enjoy them.

    Every game I have played in the past that is remotely like this, Civilization, Master of Orion, Sim City, etc. has gone the same way for me. Early in the game you micromanage a small amount of stuff, and it's fun. Later in the game after your stuff grows, you basically play a different game where you macromanage a large amount of stuff. That part of the game has never been fun for me for whatever reason. I feel like Dwarf Fortress is headed in the same direction.

    Also, another problem with this game so far. I already know the basic stuff of what I want to do, and I know how to get my dwarves to do it. They are all very happy, and they merrily do my bidding. The problem is that I often find myself spending a lot of time just waiting. Here is an example.

    Let's say I want to build a barracks and a mess hall. Alright, here's what I do. I pause the game. I order the carpenter to make beds. I order the mason to make tables and chairs. I designate areas to dig where I will eventually place all these things. I order doors, because dwarves like rooms with doors. Then I unpause and let the game go. The dwarves get right to work, and try to build these things with all their might. However, it takes like 30 minutes of real world waiting before I get to the point where I can actually place all this furniture in the rooms.

    Most of the waiting is because the rooms are filled with rocks left over from mining. I can't put the furniture in the rooms until the rocks are clear, but it takes forever for all the rocks to be hauled to the stockpile. I'm trying to find a way to just smash the rocks, but I haven't found one. The problem of mining and having a stone stockpile in the early game really needs fixing.

    For now I am having fun playing this game, but the waiting is really killing me. There needs to be some sort of fast forward button or something.
  • Every game I have played in the past that is remotely like this, Civilization, Master of Orion, Sim City, etc. has gone the same way for me. Early in the game you micromanage a small amount of stuff, and it's fun. Later in the game after your stuff grows, you basically play a different game where you macromanage a large amount of stuff. That part of the game has never been fun for me for whatever reason. I feel like Dwarf Fortress is headed in the same direction.
    Yeah, I was worried about that part, too. But this is where the genius comes in: later in the game, when you start minting currency, the Dwarven economy begins. Essentially, you go from an anarcho-communist society to a more capitalist one. By doing so, the dwarves start to manage more and more of the society for themselves. Some of the burden shifts away from you, so you can focus on the larger late-game concerns, such as trade and warfare. For example, the manager noble allows you to, rather than issue orders to an individual workshop, issue a general order for goods. Just say you have 3 carpenter's workshops and you want 30 beds. Pre-economy, you'd have to go to each workshop and individually order 10 beds at each shop. With the manager, you just go into the management screen (j, m, q) and order 30 beds (30 is the maximum order you can give, but you can make multiple orders of the same item). The game's logic then does all the work of deciding which workshop does the work and which dwarves work where. It's a real fire-and-forget tool, and it makes the game much easier as the complexity of your fortress increases.
    Also, another problem with this game so far. I already know the basic stuff of what I want to do, and I know how to get my dwarves to do it. They are all very happy, and they merrily do my bidding. The problem is that I often find myself spending a lot of time just waiting. Here is an example.

    Let's say I want to build a barracks and a mess hall. Alright, here's what I do. I pause the game. I order the carpenter to make beds. I order the mason to make tables and chairs. I designate areas to dig where I will eventually place all these things. I order doors, because dwarves like rooms with doors. Then I unpause and let the game go. The dwarves get right to work, and try to build these things with all their might. However, it takes like 30 minutes of real world waiting before I get to the point where I can actually place all this furniture in the rooms.
    As I'm sure you know about economics, you would understand that specialization is da shit. if it takes a long time for dwarfs to work on a job, go into their job preferences and remove any task unrelated to what you need them to do. (Key combination: v, then select the dwarf in question, then p for preferences, then l for labour) For example, a carpenter dwarf should only need to have Carpentry selected, but optionally have Crossbow-Making and Woodcrafting also selected (I dunno, up to you). That means she won't be distracted by hauling jobs, tending to wounded, etc. Unless the dwarf is sleeping, eating, taking a break, or is on military duty, she should only do the job you want her to do. Same goes for all other tasks in your fortress. In the beginning, you will probably need to have some dwarves doing multiple jobs, but after your first wave of immigration, you should be able to specialise. Oh, and if you do specialise, don't forget to have a couple of lowly peasants doing hauling jobs exclusively. Somebody has to do the shitty jobs.

    Of course, another option for speeding up the dwarves is cheating, by editing the speed of dwarves. Not that I recommend it, but [SPEED:5] does make the little dudes awfully fast.
    Most of the waiting is because the rooms are filled with rocks left over from mining.
    You don't have to clear the rocks before placing furniture. The dwarves just move the rocks aside when placing the item. Most players just live with the idea of rocks being on the floor everywhere, and don't bother with stockpiling. Or you could just set up a mason's workshop and have it churn out rock blocks on repeat. Or you could just chasm the fuckers.
  • Psh.

    Why read a book when you could just watch this 43 episode YouTube series (7:00:00 -ish) instead.
  • Y'know, if you want tips on Dwarf Fortress, then I can think of an excellent expert, I know a guy. I might be able to convince him to say something about it.
  • Loves me some dwarf fortress. I've been clean for several months now, but it only takes a quick reread of boatmurdered to draw me back onto that cart!
  • I almost became a Dwarf Fortress tutor for my school's game design program. I tried pitching it to the guy in charge of the tutoring program, but he had never heard of it and didn't seem interested. First of many face palms I had with those guys...
  • edited June 2012
    Psh.

    Why read a book when you could just watch this 43 episode YouTube series (7:00:00 -ish) instead.
    BECAUSE LISTENING TO CAPTNDUCK IS HORRIBLE! Just listen to him, you cannot say that one of his reasons for doing that series is not to get into some panties.
    Loves me some dwarf fortress. I've been clean for several months now, but it only takes a quick reread of boatmurdered to draw me back onto that cart!
    It's a minecart these days man. Also punch-grabbing soon. These days I take precautions before I open up the news posts from the DF development log. Otherwise all my pants'd get stained badly.
    Getting Started with Dwarf Fortress: Learn to play the most complex video game ever madeBook club?
    The only reason to read that book is for the comics made by Tim Whatshisface. But it's easier to find those elsewhere.
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • edited June 2012
    Post edited by Pegu on
  • Getting Started with Dwarf Fortress: Learn to play the most complex video game ever made

    Book club?
    O'Reilly has it on sale
    O'Reilly has the e-book for $5 if you use the coupon code MYEP9 . Same goes for any e-book within the store. No idea why, though.
  • Getting Started with Dwarf Fortress: Learn to play the most complex video game ever made

    Book club?
    O'Reilly has it on sale
    O'Reilly has the e-book for $5 if you use the coupon code MYEP9 . Same goes for any e-book within the store. No idea why, though.
    What format is that e-book? Kindle? Is it a black and white book that is good on my non-fire kindle? Is it DRM free?
  • Getting Started with Dwarf Fortress: Learn to play the most complex video game ever made

    Book club?
    O'Reilly has it on sale
    O'Reilly has the e-book for $5 if you use the coupon code MYEP9 . Same goes for any e-book within the store. No idea why, though.
    What format is that e-book? Kindle? Is it a black and white book that is good on my non-fire kindle? Is it DRM free?
    You get .mobi (the Kindle format... I believe), .epub, and .pdf without any DRM whatsoever. I'm sure it's fine on your kindle (I use the .epub on my nook with hardly any problems), and it's super useful that you can put it on every device you need.

    The five dollar deal is also awesome. It's primarily intended for "$5 ebook upgrades" on print books, but there's no way to filter it. As a result, I've been buying O'Reilly books as if it were an endless Steam sale...


    ...okay... maybe it's not THAT bad...
  • edited June 2012
    I'll buy that for $5! But maybe not this particular book since it's got a lot of color in it.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • I'll buy that for $5! But maybe not this particular book since it's got a lot of color in it.
    The illustrations look fine on my 2nd gen Kindle.

  • I'm playing on my own. My fortress was attacked by a werelizard. One of my dwarfs is now a werelizard, and every full moon he lizards it up, then returns to dwarfing. What do I do about him?
  • edited August 2012
    Two possible options. Prison cells (they are relatively immortal) either permanently or whenever necessary. Or let them infect your entire dwarven population and rule a kingdom of werelizards!

    I'm curious if it's a game over if everyone is simultaneously a werelizard on a full moon. If that's the case, keep the one non-were guy in prison instead. :P
    Post edited by Anthony Heman on
  • Two possible options. Prison cells (they are relatively immortal) either permanently or whenever necessary. Or let them infect your entire dwarven population and rule a kingdome of werelizards.
    Oh, kingdom of werelizards aren't so bad! I guess they will all turn into werelizards at the same time, and werelizards don't eat each other.
  • Oh, kingdom of werelizards aren't so bad! I guess they will all turn into werelizards at the same time, and werelizards don't eat each other.
    Sucks for the one non-infected dorf who shows up later. ;^)

  • Oh, kingdom of werelizards aren't so bad! I guess they will all turn into werelizards at the same time, and werelizards don't eat each other.
    Sucks for the one non-infected dorf who shows up later. ;^)

    Well, any dwarf who moves in will join the werelizard community, or die. Any goblins that come around during the full moon...
  • edited November 2013
    So I have not had any luck finding any info in the usual places, so I thought I would put the question to you folks.

    Is there anywhere, in-game, that tracks the actions of an individual dwarf that can be reviewed as a kind of life story?
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Don't we already have a thread for this? How could we not already have a thread for this?
  • edited November 2013
    You can look up the name of any individual unit in the Legends screen, right next to Adventure Mode and Fortress Mode. I don't know if it works for games in progress or not.
    Post edited by Walker on
  • Hey, thanks for moving my question to the appropriate thread still figuring out the etiquette of posting
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