Why does everyone hate DRM so much?

iruul

I've heard many complaints concerning the use of DRM but I do not understand what the big deal is. First of all, it is logical for a company to protect their files from being freely distributed. Also, while DRM limits the user, how big of a deal is this? How many place does a person need to access their music from? Also, places like I-tunes lets you authorize multiple computers to play the media purchased. Maybe i'm missing something?

Sail

The average user knows nothing of DRM. It's a big deal to us because we know that we do not fully own what we have purchased and are not allowed to use it in any way we please.

Page

First of all, it is logical for a company to protect their files from being freely distributed.

However a number of times it has kept me from legally distributing music to myself, further the way these DRMs work is illegal in a number of countries around the world.

Also, while DRM limits the user, how big of a deal is this?

This depends on what you're doing and on the DRM itself, I'll refer back to the infamous Sony DRM, that even had DRM supporters like MS horrified at how bad it was (mostly because of poor coding) and even going to the extent of calling malware.

How many place does a person need to access their music from?

For myself, the answer is two, it has to be able to play on my current computer and my current MP3 player, and many DRMs have prevented me from using them on my Creative MP3 player, while they work on my father's Ipod, or my brother's Sony MP3 player.

Also, places like I-tunes lets you authorize multiple computers to play the media purchased.

but that doesn't always work, and that is where the problem lies.

Maybe i'm missing something?

At the end of the day DRMs only seem to hurt me and the very idea of capitalism as I no longer receive the goods that I have paid for.

...

The bomb blew when Sony put rootkits on their CD's to protect their music. It's the way they do it. Apple does it decently. Allowing you to play a song on what, 5 computers/iPods? It's also somewhat restrictive, but it's not limiting the person to one way to listen to their music. It's just how the fair use is being mangled. Apple just says "Yeah, we want to protect the artist and the content, but we don't want to fuck you over.", whereas idiots like the RIAA and MPAA shout that ripping a CD is 'unauthorized' even when you are allowed to make a backup copy of your bought music. Fair use.

Reimu

DRM is worse than Hitler, Stalin and Ron Paul combined.

Kilarney

For myself, the answer is two, it has to be able to play on my current computer and my current MP3 player

Not to mention that you want to be able to put those songs on your next computer and MP3 player.

Anything that's DRMed I treat as a rental - no matter what the seller says.

Apreche

http://defectivebydesign.org/

HungryJoe

I don't remember where I heard or read this, so I can't provide a source, but did the RIAA in some recent case say that their postion was that a person couldn't copy a CD that the person legally bought and paid for onto that person's own personal computer? Wouldn't a strict dherence to that policy mean that a person wouldn't be able to buy a CD at the mall and then return home and copy it onto their iPod?

Or was I just hearing voices again?

Edit: Here is part of what I read. I originally read the Washington Post article, but apparently it was a little wrong.

Neito

so I can't provide a source, but did the RIAA in some recent case say that their postion was that a person couldn't copy a CD that the person legally bought and paid for onto that person's own personal computer?

The RIAA is CLAIMING that the lawyer messed up or something and that they didn't mean it like that.
And here's an apt analogy for what DRM does. Let's say I sell you a sandwich, but I don't want you to be able to take it home and figure out how to make it. So, I install a little device inside the sandwich that will ruin it beyond recognition if you leave my store. After all, I'm just protecting my intellectual property vis a vis the sandwich.

Omnutia

Why DRM is bad for consumers: A company can sell you a product and then decide what you do with that product. They can also choose to revoke said product without any reimbursement. If you were to apply that to most other products there would be public outcries.

Apreche

http://www.eff.org/issues/drm

HMTKSteve

Have we all forgotten about Google Video where they shut it down and all those videos you paid for where useless? I think one of the big sports industries did it too MLB/NFL, one of them.

When you have DRM on something someone else always holds the power to stop it from working.

George Patches

I just have a huge problem with paying to be treated like I'm a criminal.

Jain7th

When something makes downloading and using stolen content easier than buying it, something went seriously wrong.

Pirates will always find a way to copy media and then all DRM does is punish buyers.

Omnutia

Oh, and DRM. It doesn't work. The one pirate is going to crack it and put it out everywhere without DRM so it only hurts the legitimate consumer.

spiritfiend

DRM costs money, so it makes copyrighted works more expensive to consume. At the same time, it makes it more difficult to consume.

am_dragon

Also, places like I-tunes lets you authorize multiple computers to play the media purchased. Maybe i'm missing something?

Try to play your iTunes music on your Xbox 360, Linux based PC, Windows Media Player, or any of a host of MP3 playing devices that don't say Apple on them. You can't, and when your iPod breaks you have 3 choices for a new MP3 player, an iPod Classic, and iPod Nano, or a Shuffle. That is the main reason DRM is bad, it allows that publisher to lock you to a device. Apple refuses to license Fairplay, the DRM that is on iTunes music. No other company could make a device that plays iTunes songs if they wanted to. As an aside I own an iPod and when I do purchase music from iTunes I just burn it to a CD and re-rip into mp3. This creates a backup for me and removes the DRM. I don't think I should have to take the extra step but at least I can in the case of iTunes.

TV shows from the Xbox Live service are easy to access, easy so view on a TV and you don't have to buy the entire series like you do with the physical media. The downside is it's locked to the 360, you can't move the content off the box. I've downloaded one episode of Star Trek on my 360 and it actually has an expiration date on the end user license. It is a rental, a long term rental. If I want to watch the show on another TV I have to move the 360, I have no other option.

If there was an open source DRM solution that could be integrated into all devices, with no additional cost to the publisher then sure DRM it up. As long as the DRM is tied to a company, and must be licensed for use it's bad news.

George Patches

Doesn't iTunes have some kind of DRM-free music you can buy? Where is it?

Neito

Doesn't iTunes have some kind of DRM-free music you can buy? Where is it?

It's a $1.29, and only some publishers.

George Patches

Yeah I know it's more, but where is it? Has anyone actually bought this elusive music? Cause I can't find it.

am_dragon

I've never seen the iTunes DRM free either. I will say that Amazon's Music downloads are DRM free and apparently they just signed Sony BMG so they will have all of the major record labels available in DRM free mp3.

Cramit

iTunes DRM free is now $.99, but still only some labels.

Apreche

iTunes DRM free is now $.99, but still only some labels.

Even though it is without DRM, isn't it still AAC instead of MP3?

HMTKSteve

iTunes DRM free is now $.99, but still only some labels.

Even though it is without DRM, isn't it still AAC instead of MP3?

You have more than one PC in the house, just use a cable from the speaker jack on one PC to the mic jack on another.

Apreche

1. 
   You have more than one PC in the house, just use a cable from the speaker jack on one PC to the mic jack on another.

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Yeah, if you want it to sound like shit.

iruul

I guess this makes sense. Since I only play music on my computer and ipod, I dont run into any issues with DRM. To me, the DRM doesnt affect me at all. I dont understand the comparison of DRM products to rental though, they have no reason to take products you've bought away from you. Sounds more like paranoia to me. Also, what other alternatives are there to try and protect against piracy? I suppose you could use no method at all and hope that there will be enough honest consumers to make enough profit.

Omnutia

You have more than one PC in the house, just use a cable from the speaker jack on one PC to the mic jack on another.

Just use P2P, it saves a lot of trouble. I think we're all agreed that DRM is bad and has nothing going for it.

HMTKSteve

DRM is a hand in your pocket. It's like the old-old days of being paid in company scrip.

DRM limits my ability to do things with a product I have legally purchased. What if I get tired of an album, should I not be allowed to re-sell that album? What about video games? When the Wii gifting service rolled out I knew they would not let me "re-gift" games I had already purchased and played but it would have been nice.

Software licensing is the precursor to today's DRM. Before the advent of software (and digital mediums) when you purchased something you owned the physical item. To keep the topic on music consider this.

Joe Tumblebum goes to the music store and buys an audio cassette. He can play that tape in any tape player that accepts the tape. Same goes for buying a record or 8-track (yes, I owned one of them). He can make copies but they will not sound as good as the original.

Fast forward 20 years

Joe Tumblebum Jr. goes to the music store and buys a CD. He can play that CD on any device that will accept a CD. He can also copy it to his computer with no loss of quality. From there he can freely distribute that copy to all of his music devices with all copies sounding the same as the original.

The big difference here is that 20 years ago you copied things onto another tape that would wear out (or be eaten) over time. Today you can make copies that are as good as the original that never wear out and cost you nothing to make. DRM is an attempt to stop you from doing the distribution bit but they also stop you from doing everything else that you used to be able to do at the same time.

Think back to Rym's "I'd rather see the guilty go free than an innocent man behind bars" belief. DRM says that everyone is a criminal. DRM is an attempt to license a physical good to you rather than sell it to you.

How would you feel if after buying a new car the dealer sent out a signal that stopped your car from working just because you let your friend drive it for a week? What if the dealer called you up and said that because they were going out of business your car would soon stop working?

DRM is bad for everyone.

psiclopz

irrul "I dont understand the comparison of DRM products to rental though, they have no reason to take products you've bought away from you. Sounds more like paranoia to me."

Did you miss the post(s) where this was just discussed.

Google Videos: You had the ability to buy shows, but then they shut down the service, leaving those people who had bought the videos sol, because you had to play the videos through the GV service. If that's not a rental then I don't know what is.

XBox360: Some shows that you purchase have an expiration date. Also a rental touted as a purchase.

iTunes: You can only play your music via iTunes. Potentially also a rental touted as a purchase.

If iTunes shut down, you would be unable to play any of your music that had DRM. Why? Because it's not yours, you are allowed to use it as long as the company putting the DRM on it allows you to. iTunes doesn't even have to shut down, just deauthorize your account, all of a sudden your computers don't play your files anymore.

And the worst is that DRM only hurts the law-abiding people, because the smart ones crack the DRM and make copies of the media that they "PAID FOR" in a format that they can use any way they wish.

RedShirt

An anime-related DRM/Copy Protection example. A while back, I netflixed Ghost in the Shell, Stand Alone Complex, Solid State Society (damn long freaking title). Stuck in the DVD player. It played up to a point, then stuttered, froze, eventually dieing with a "check for scratched/dirty/etc disks" message. I checked out the disk in the light, it looked ok to me. A few scratches and the like (it's Netflix, what can you expect) . I tried it in my computer's DVD player, same deal, same spots. Tried it in my laptop, same deal, same spots. Ok, I'm thinking it must be a bad DVD, however, I was able to skip past the bad spots if I was careful. Sent it back, thought nothing else of it.

Fast forward to recent times, I get the movie as a gift. I'm thinking it's very cool, I'll be able to watch the whole thing without problems since it is a new disk. So put it in, played it, same problem, same area. Likewise, same thing in my various DVD players. Two DVD's, same issue, I'm thinking it's not a bad disk, but something else that's funky with it.

I tried copying it to see if that would resolve the issue. Ran it through DVD Decrypter, aha, Arccos protection. Ripped it to my computer with no problems (some protection scheme that is). Tested it out and the ripped copy plays fine on my computer (the "bad" spots don't have any issues). I burnt a DVD+R with the movie, plays fine on all my DVD players. So, an example of DRM/Copy Protection that makes it so I cannot enjoy the movie without using the DVD copying programs that the studios don't want me to use. It also brings into question what really was the cause of the recent big Bandai Entertainment recall. Was it a defective batch of disks, or was it a poorly executed Arccos/Ripguard copy protection scheme? The Solid State Society DVD was also put out by Bandai Entertainment...
Bandai Entertainment DVD Recall

Apreche

I think that it was indeed a defective batch of disks because we have the same problem with our Solid State Society disk. I do not think the stuttering in the movie is because of the copy protection. However, you still provide an excellent point.

If you buy a movie, and you want to transfer it to a different format, without giving it away, that is perfectly legal. However, because there is DRM that you have to break, you have to break the law in order to do something legal. This is the key problem with DRM. It makes normally legal activity illegal.

Imagine if there were a store selling yummy candy. That store was open from 9 to 5 every day, and buying the candy was legal. However, the door to the store was locked, even though the store was open. Legally you can buy the candy, but you have to commit the crime of breaking in and entering in order to get it. This is DRM.