Miniatures

Kilarney

I recently joined a game group. Their tastes are pretty diverse. There is a contingent that plays historical miniatures - namely Flames of War (WWII). I've always been intrigued, so last night I gave it a shot.
Here are some of my thoughts:
1) The historian in me absolutely loved it.
2) The investment required seems HUGE. $500 or so to get started. Okay, it can be cheaper, but once you start, you will probably spend that much pretty quickly. That doesn't count the numerous hours of painting and learning the rules.

As someone who has never played RPGs, including D&D, it's hard to get my mind around the investment in time and money. I can pick up a boardgame for $40, and have a blast. I can also play numerous boardgames with completely different mechanics and themes. If I got into Flames of War, I'd be playing essentially one game, albeit with countless scenarios. I also noticed at the convention I went to that historical miniature players tend to be older. I suspect this has something to do with money and the subject matter. Younger people tend to be more attracted to Warhammer 40k and the like. I'm no spring chicken, but I also don't remember the Vietnam war!

It was fun, but for now I'm glad that somebody else owns all of the equipment and knows all of the rules. I'd love to get more involved, but I just see it as a giant black hole.

Does anyone here play miniature games? How do you justify the expense in time and money?

Apreche

Does anyone here play miniature games? How do you justify the expense in time and money?

They justify it by lying to themselves. There are plenty of ways to get all the fun of history, or all the fun of miniatures games, without paying the exorbitant costs involved with a game like Warhammer 40K.

Here is one example that I discovered recently.

Here is another popular choice.

WizKids Games is also well known for their games. Many of them are also pricey, especially the collectible clix games, but they are not nearly as bad as the ones by companies like Games Workshop.

There are also many other miniatures games that compete directly with Warhammer, but are relatively less expensive. Warmachine is one of many.

If history is what you are after, there are plenty of self-contained war games to play. These are great because they are just like any other board game. You don't need to convince other players to invest time and money in the game, and you can get rid of the game if it sucks.

Also remember. If you play a game like Classic Battletech, it is not hard to just use bits of paper, or other doodads, in place of the miniatures. It's no less fun, and it saves a lot of money.

Andrew

They justify it by lying to themselves. There are plenty of ways to get all the fun of history, or all the fun of miniatures games, without paying the exorbitant costs involved with a game like Warhammer 40K.

I don't lie to myself about it. I understand Warhammer can be pricey, but for me it's worth it. I enjoy being able to paint and customize my models (I'm very proficient at it) so much that it is almost more enjoyable than playing the actual game. I was lucky because my friends and I all started together we have had a good gaming group to play with over the years. I'm not saying that the game is for everyone, but the prices aren't unreasonable. Warhammer is easily the most polished and provides the highest quality models. Over time they have been trying to move towards making all their models plastic based rather than the traditional pewter in order to try and offset the costs. Buying models second hand off ebay is also a great way to collect. Many times people will sell unpainted and unassembled models for significantly less than retail prices.

2) The investment required seems HUGE. $500 or so to get started. Okay, itcanbe cheaper, but once you start, you will probably spend that much pretty quickly. That doesn't count the numerous hours of painting and learning the rules.

I haven't played any other miniature games other than Warhammer, but this is the approach I tell people who want to get into it. Try it out before you get into it, several times. Go to the Games Workshop stores if possible, they offer very good introductory games and many times allows new players to play with the models in store. After you try it a couple times, start small. Warhammer doesn't require large initial investments to begin with, you can buy only one or two units are your leisure for a small price. Like Scott said, play with nuts and bolts or pieces of paper to begin with and slowly replace them with models over time.

If you want, you don't have to buy the models, but for me there is something to be proud of when you show off your painted and crafted models. I believe that it is much more rewarding than just buying a board game or using pre-painted and assembled models like those CLX games. It's not for everyone, but for those who find painting and modeling enjoyable, miniatures games are a great way to mix that hobby with a solid gaming background.

Apreche

If the painting and the crafting is something that you want to do, then it's going to be an expensive proposition no matter what miniatures you choose to craft and paint. If you are only interested in the history and the gaming, steer clear of the minis, collectible or otherwise.

Andrew

If the painting and the crafting is something that you want to do, then it's going to be an expensive proposition no matter what miniatures you choose to craft and paint. If you are only interested in the history and the gaming, steer clear of the minis, collectible or otherwise.

I agree, however many games combine the two extremely well. It's almost as if you get a two in one deal, but again, you have to find the painting and crafting worthwhile. If you want to play games but not want to deal with the painting/modeling, these games are not for you.

HMTKSteve

I cut back on my WarHammer expenditures by only playing the Mordheim system.

J.Sharp

The enjoyment of most miniature games is a combination of the crafting/painting and the playing actual game. If you don't enjoy both aspects, you'll probably find a hobby that better suits your interests.

Yeah, it can be expensive - but then so are a bunch of other hobbies. But you don't have to drop $500 at once as an initial buy in. Most of these games have reasonably priced introductory sets, and paint/brushes aren't that expensive. From there you can expand with more dudes at a pace that you're comfortable with.

TheWhaleShark

As others have said, a lot of the appeal of a miniatures-based game comes from the ability to really customize it. You wind up putting a lot of your own personality into any game like that.

Really, the Games Workshop games are the only really expensive (relatively speaking) miniatures game out there. There are other games that are far more reasonably priced; they're just not Warhammer.

And I don't lie to myself about the cost of Warhammer. I can't. Dropping 50 bucks to buy a Land Raider is not an insignificant expense, not by any means. The fact that there are usable "miniatures" that cost upwards of 350 British pounds is a reminder of the level of insanity you must possess to really get into these games.

Seriously, don't play Warhammer. I mean, do play Warhammer, but also, don't.

Sova

Anyone have pics of minis to post up? I just finished working on some Skorne models for Hordes and I'll probably post them up after I'm done working on some homework. I'm interested to see what other forumites have created though.

Andrew

Here are some old pictures I have.

HMTKSteve

Yes, I suck at photography.

Sova

Yay Skorne. I am also terrible at photography.

Churba

Matt

I love the concept of miniatures games, but I don't love the painting/crafting enough to make them worth it in the end. I went through two phases in my life where I decided I would try to play Warhammer. I got pretty far the first time but wound up shelving the stuff. 10 years later I picked it back up and finished the army, but still only got it 2/3 of the way painted. Now considering selling the stuff off b/c it has retained its value fairly well.

Instead, I decided to get my occasional craft fix from painting up components from my favorite board games. These paint jobs would be below average looking if I brought them to a miniature battle, but for a board game players expecting monotone pieces, they really appreciate it!

GreatTeacherMacRoss

TL:DR the entire thread, but I can tell you I got out of miniature gaming for a few reasons:
1. Expense. Jesus Christ is it one of the most expensive hobbies for gamers.
2. GamesWorkshop is run by assholes. I've only ever seen them invalidate old minis for newer, more expensive ones.
3. Time commitment is heavy.
4. Painting minis, while fun, involves a ton of time and effort.

Wyatt

TL:DR the entire thread, but I can tell you I got out of miniature gaming for a few reasons:
1. Expense. Jesus Christ is it one of the most expensive hobbies for gamers.
2. GamesWorkshop is run by assholes. I've only ever seen them invalidate old minis for newer, more expensive ones.
3. Time commitment is heavy.
4. Painting minis, while fun, involves a ton of time and effort.

The DnD Minis, Mage Knight, and Hero Clicks solve most of those problems. Prepainted and booster packs are cheaper then the GW products.

Does anyone actually play those games? I normally used the Minis in my DnD game and skipped the Chainmail aspect.

Sova

The GW issues (shitty luck heavy rules, run by assholes, overpricing like mad, other assorted bullshit) have got me out of playing Warhammer 40k and now I've been trying Hordes/Warmachine and I find it to be quite enjoyable.

You buy a box of models and you can just use them, you don't have to buy like 3 and end up with a bunch of extra models. Also the rule system is one of my favorites allowing you to choose when to 'boost' rolls in oder to succeed when you need to. It's half combat tactics half FURY/FOCUS management. Where are you going to attack? With what? How badly do you want to kill that model?

Also using your feats at the right time is critical to winning. Really any game that encourages and rewards you for doing the ballsy moves and taking risks is worth trying in my books.

Matt

the problem with MageKnight/HeroClix is that they come in mystery boxes. It's basically a CCG with figurines, and I'm never going to throw money at "collectable" stuff like that again.

Andrew

If you want to see how a model is professional painted, watch this.

Matt

I am in love with this website: http://www.coolminiornot.com/
It's basically "hot or not" but for people's painted miniatures. I'm not a mini fanatic or anything, but I have a ton of appreciation for the best examples of this sort of art. Their twitter account spits out a direct link to one highly-rated mini each day and it always makes for some good browsing when reading tweets over the morning coffee.

SquadronROE

I've got a few miniatures games (Dust Tactics, Wings of War and Mechwarrior: Dark Ages) that I play fairly regularly. I generally get by with using cheaper, plastic/prepainted mini's or simply playing a game that can use counters. The few collectable miniatures games I have, I found for cheap during random sales. For instance, I got a massive amount of Dark Ages mini's for around $40 when it was going out of print and was on clearance.

jabrams007

the problem with MageKnight/HeroClix is that they come in mystery boxes. It's basically a CCG with figurines, and I'm never going to throw money at "collectable" stuff like that again.

Heroclix seems to be partially moving away from the "mystery boxes" with the release of the "fast forces" sets. They're completely non-random sets of themed figures. They've recently had ones for Green Lantern, Watchmen , Thor, and even Street Fighter.

I hate random "blind buy" type purchases, but with these starter sets and fast forces sets, I've been able to see exactly what I'm getting and have been able to spend a reasonable amount of money to play the game.

VentureJ

I will be purchasing Super Dungeon Explore, and I want to get into painting the little miniatures that are included in the game. Unfortunately, I have absolutely NO idea where to start!

Do you guys have any tips? Can you point me to any good beginner tutorials? There are plenty of videos on YouTube, but most of them employ "advanced" techniques or are very hard to follow.

Apreche

Here's my advice. Go buy a huge sack of shitty miniatures. Get some really pointy brushes and some paint. Then just paint like crazy without caring about quality so much. Just try to make each one better than the last one. Your skill will go up a ton. Then watch some videos after you have some experience to compare against. Doing will learn you more than watching or reading.

I tried to watch Gundam model building videos, and they didn't teach me shit. So I just followed the directions and did my own thing. Now if I watch a YouTube video it is very helpful.

SquadronROE

I second what Scott says. That's the best way to learn, just do it. You'll learn as you go.

Then, once you feel like you're doing a decent job, watch some videos and get some more advanced technique ideas (like drybrushing).

Of course, I never let my lack of painting skills get in the way, and will play with unpainted miniatures.

Apreche

One thing you may need to learn before you just start painting is to apply primer or something. Obviously I don't know much about it.

open_sketchbook

Yeah, always prime your shit. Just make sure you do it in an open space; I once nearly passed out after priming a hundred and fifty Imperial Guardsmen in a garage.

HMTKSteve

1) wash the minis in warm soapy water to get any production residue off of them.

2) use primer. White for minis that will have bright colors and black for dark ones.

3) if minis are multipart plastic always sand the joints before gluing.

4) paint from the inside out. It's easier to fix mistakes and you can be sloppy when painting recessed bits.

5) only use the tip of the brush and plenty of water.

I can do an instructional video if there is enough demand.

Matt

Get real superglue. When 8 of your fingers are stuck together, apply nail polish remover with the remaining two and you will have hands again.

Apreche

At PAX there is a place you can go to paint one miniature for free. I think I'm definitely going to do it at east.

Apreche

I just remembered that at PAX there was that company Soda Pop Miniatures that always had the cool miniatures that were all anime styling. I went to check out their site. Realized that they are the ones who make Super Dungeon Explore.

/derp