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The state of anime in R1

edited January 2008 in Anime
Lately it seems like bad news on top of bad news. There's Geneon vanishing, Newtype trouble, and ADV changing distribution in Europe. I know of a guy who was working on Newtype USA at ADV and he's been posting several things on forums claiming that the market really isn't making the money it used to.

Right now is a great time to snag several series for cheap, but is there going to be much left? It's like the days of a dying videogame console.
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Comments

  • Care to post links to said deals?
  • If all the anime distributors die then I'll just download fansubs. I'm happy either way.
  • Rightstuff has had some crazy deals lately. Much of their stock of older titles in the bargain bin section is well below $10. I'm not sure if the sale is still on, but they had both seasons of Ghost in the Shell for $50 each. Almost every Bandai title is collected into cheap Anime Legend boxes as well.
  • If all the anime distributors die then I'll just download fansubs. I'm happy either way.
    If all the American distributors die then a huge revenue stream disappears. A huge revenue stream that Japan NEEDS right now because anime isn't doing so well for THEM either. This is a case where piracy is extremely short sighted, unlike a Microsoft-type operation that will barely feel a pinch from the loss of your sale. If you're not buying it for altruism, at least buy it for the selfish reason that your sale encourages the production of more stuff you like.
  • I will, but I'm in college and thus poor right now. I'll buy a lot more anime in a year.
  • edited January 2008
    There is also the shit factor of the newer cartoons that impacts the sales. Other than Gurren Lagaan and possibly the Golgo 13 show, there is no new anime that I'm really interested in.
    Post edited by Railith on
  • Yeah, I buy the animes, but most of the shows I'm buying lately are re-releases of older shows, like the new Cowboy Bebop box. Maybe if so many of the new shows weren't moe fests, I'd be buying more of them. Serious sci-fi shows like Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, etc. are what made anime so huge in the US to begin with. The more they have steered away from that, the less anime I've bought. I think the content is to blame far more than the fansubs.
  • I will buy Baccano when it's released here, and maybe Haruhi Suzumiya when I'm not poor. But other than that, I haven't seen many new animes I care for, though this season is actually looking pretty good now. Spice and Wolf, Shigofumi, and Hatenkou Yugi are all very neat shows.
  • Hmm, more thinking. I thought of another reason anime is making a lot less money, especially DVDs. Originally the anime fan demographic was the 20+ year old sci-fi fan. These were people with money who wanted to spend it.

    Now the demographic is Narutards and the like. This is a demographic of people who have grown up with the Internets full on. They have shit tons of free time, and there is a shit ton of content out there that they enjoy. However, they also have no money. Everything they own is bought by their parents. Their parents are only willing to spend a fixed amount of money on them. Knowing this, the kids will always choose a path that gets them the most content for the least money. They will have the parents spend the money on used video games, while they sell back old games, they will buy some manga, and they will pirate music and anime.

    I'm beginning to think that the way to make money off these kids is to find some way to make an incredibly large amount of content at a very low price.

  • I'm beginning to think that the way to make money off these kids is to find some way to make an incredibly large amount of content at a very low price.
    Everyone says this would be a solution. I don't see it that because even a low low low price when compared to free people will choose free. It would still be great to walk into Suncoast or somewhere and get anime DVD's for 10 bucks like manga. Or even download for a dollar. As long as there's a bucksfree alternative it wont make a huge impact.
  • As long as there's a bucksfree alternative it wont make a huge impact.
    Ditto to this.
  • The only reason piracy is so rampant is because the government does jack to crack down on it. For example, if there were no state troopers on the highways I'd do over 100, my car can handle it. However, there are state troopers on the highways, and they're ready to take my license for such an offense so I don't speed much.
  • they're ready to take my license
    Take away your license? Dude how fast do you drive?
  • Let's just say that I've gone fast enough that the cops won't be polite and would instead be shouting and pulling guns. That's not really the point I was trying to make though.
  • R1 at the moment is pretty screwed. Several reasons.

    1. Stuff is getting licensed that won't ever make any money. Look at what Geneon's been putting out the last few years. Case in point. Anime is a niche market as it is, but some titles really aim for the niche within the niche.

    2. Piracy, and the industry's response to it. I'm not about to go off on fansubbing. I think it fills a demand that in most cases R1 distributors are not filling. BUT there are two big issues inherent. One, the anime industry generally isn't filling and monetizing that demand itself. Viz started doing it with subbed eps of Death Note as soon as they nabbed the license. Funi is doing it now with a couple series, like pay $1.99 per ep subbed, which if you do the math, is pretty awesome.
    Also, many fans, as Zac Bertschy put it on an interview with Anime Today, feel "entitled." They get this stuff for free on fansubs and don't see why they ought to pay money to see stuff they already saw. Honestly, that's a load of crap. Anime isn't cheap to make, it isn't cheap to license, it isn't cheap to dub. The least you could do to show support for the show is buy a DVD or two.

    3. Kind of ties into 2. Digital distribution and the industry's slow adoption of it. iTunes, Xbox Live, and other services provide an opportunity for the industry to easily rake in money hand over fist through this a la carte downloading. But not many Japanese studios are taking the bait. But darnit, the US companies are trying. A trip to XBL reveals 31 different shows, plus the Animatrix, and a few movies. More is always better.

    4. The US economy.

    5. Television. TV is a great opportunity for anime. Unfortunately, Toonami and AS can only handle so much. Outside of that, the only real opportunity a lot of shows have in the US is on VOD services, which blows. Anime Network just killed its 24/7 network, which doesn't help. It seems that whole sector is dwindling. Oh Anime Unleashed, how I miss you.
  • Its probably a good thing that the US anime industry is failing, because then they can be replaced by people and companies that can actually do things well.
  • I'm beginning to think that the way to make money off these kids is to find some way to make an incredibly large amount of content at a very low price.
    One problem with that: production costs will not decrease. Making a large amount of content will cost a lot of money, and releasing that content at a cheap price means low profit margins, which, in the case of public companies, means some angry investors. Of course, you could make a large amount of cheap but very low quality content for those prices, but nobody would want it. Except maybe scary fanboys and Narutards who don't know any better.

    Okay, maybe it's not a problem after all.
  • I'm beginning to think that the way to make money off these kids is to find some way to make an incredibly large amount of content at a very low price.
    One problem with that: production costs will not decrease.
    What about something like a subscription service with several older tv shows avaliable for a monthly fee and the option to purchase new shows per episode at something like $2 an episode? Trouble is, the service would have to be very large from the get-go with cooperation from several companies. Think Gametap meets Steam.
  • Just for the record, I still stand by what we said in a previous episode of GN. There's nothing wrong with buying something solely because you want to support whoever is selling it, but you have to realize that is charity. Giving to charity is good, but nobody should feel obligated to do so. Personally, I would not suggest buying something you do not want just for the sake of charity.

    The anime companies are moving dangerously close to a business model that depends on charity. The comics publishers already have such a business model, and you can see it's not working out too well for them. You simply can not run a business where your customers only buy your product out of charity. Instead, you have to have a product that people are dying for, and they give you money because they want the product so badly.

    The key for anime companies now is to remarket or repackage the product such that people will be dying to get their hands on it.
  • It's not charity, it's showing some fucking respect for people by buying their product instead of stealing it. Is it charity to buy bread from the store, or do you buy bread because there's no way to download bread off the internet?

    I fully agree that you should not be buying DVDs out of guilt. You should not be buying shitty shows to "support the industry", but if something is good enough to watch on fansubs then it's good enough to buy/rent. This should be especially relevant in the geeknights very bombastic "we agreed long ago to never waste time on anything" stance on entertainment. If a show isn't good enough to pay money for (even if it's Neflix) then why are you wasting time watching it? If something's good enough to watch, it's good enough to pay money for to support the artists who made it. Like I said before, it's good enough at least for the reason that paying for it will hopefully get more of the same stuff made. If you don't want to pay for it, fine. But don't NOT pay for it, then STEAL it, and then act like it's someone else's problem.

    Buying it isn't charity, it's operating inside a normal business model that everything else exists under. Because it's so damn easy to get fansubs people feel entitled, just like Zac says. Leisure is not a right. Acting like anime companies are doing something wrong because they want to sell you a product is pretty asinine. Anime companies have made some pretty boneheaded moves recently, and they've run out of backcatalog of awesome shows to carry their weight. So they're licensing a lot of shit. Don't buy that shit if you don't want it. Don't buy DVDs if you think they're too expensive. Shit, don't buy them if you don't like the fact that they don't have inserts anymore, who cares. That's fine, and that's how business is supposed to work. The problem I have is with people NOT buying the DVDs, watching the fansubs, and then acting like it's the anime company's fault for their stealing. Sounds tantamount to blaming rape victims for wearing tantalizing clothing.

    Just because it's easy to steal something doesn't mean it's okay to do it. I'm pretty sick of people acting like it's the anime company's fault that they were "forced" to watch fansubs. I'd have a lot less problems with piracy if it wasn't for the elitist fucking douchebags acting like they were saving the human race with a moral conquest of good against the EVIL ANIME COMPANIES every time they download an episode of Cat Fucker Nuku-Neko.
  • It's not charity to buy bread from the store, if you want bread. However, if you are only buying bread from the store because you want to support the baker, then that is charity. Let's take the analogy a little further. There are two stores. Store A has bread for one dollar, store B has bread for two dollars. In all other respects the stores and the bread are the same. Let's say you really like the baker at store B. To show your support of this nice baker, you buy their more expensive bread. That makes one dollar for bread, and one dollar for charity.

    If someone knowingly makes an exchange that is one-sided toward the other party in order to support them, then that is charity. However, charity and purchasing can be combined. If you make a $50 donation to the public television station, and you get a $5 tote bag, that's a $45 charity. If there is an anime series that you would have normally only bought for $30, but you buy it for $50 to support the industry, then that's a $20 charity.

    It all comes down to what feelings people have in their hearts. Most of the time people purchase products out of desire. They want the product, they are willing to pay the price, and they can afford it. Sometimes people pay more for a product than they otherwise would, or they purchase a product they otherwise would not purchase, because they have feelings of charity. That's perfectly fine.

    What is not fine is resting the success or failure of your business on those feelings of charity. If your bakery is only staying in business because the townsfolk want to support you, something is wrong. People should be coming to your bakery and giving you money because they can't resist your amazing breads and pastries. The anime industry does not have so many of the amazing breads and pastries. The only reason they are doing poorly is because they insist on selling a product that is not desired greatly enough.

    Seriously think about it. If fansubs were all eliminated, would anime purchasing increase? Hells no. It would drop like a rock. People like me who find out about new shows through fansubs would no longer find about about new shows that I may have purchased. People who only watch fansubs, and never buy anything, will simply find some other free way to occupy their surplus of spare time.

    It's quite simple. People don't buy anime DVDs because they do not want them.
  • It's quite simple. People don't buy anime DVDs because they do not want them.
    As much of an anime fan as I am, I Netflix 99% of the shows I watch. I don't buy DVDs in general (anime or otherwise), since most shows aren't worth watching more than once. Netflix doesn't provide crap for revenue back to the anime companies, so buying a DVD instead of simply Netflixing it is certainly charity.

    Most anime, I'd probably just watch on TV. But then again, if they were on TV, I'd just Tivo them and skip the advertisements. That's really no better for the anime companies than just bit-torrenting the show in the first place: it just happens to be legal.

    My point is that I basically give almost zero money to the anime industry despite watching volumes of it perfectly legally. Am I any worse than the pirates?
  • I would buy more anime, but most of the stuff that is released here is total shlock! The only shows I want to buy, I haven't either because of money restraints (which should be cured by April) or the box set isn't out yet. As soon as Haruhi and Gurren Lagaan are released in box sets, I will buy them instantly without thinking.
  • I would buy more anime if things that interest me wouldn't be licensed and not be exorbitantly priced. So far only a single show I have found to be worth 20€ a disk with 4 episodes. That series is Black Lagoon. Other than that I always watch out for something cheap. 13 Episodes of Planetes for 25€, sing me up. 55€ For Azumanga Daioh Box set. Well that's less than a third of the individual disks. Bought.

    If anime would be somewhere in the price range of american TV shows by 30-50€ a box set I would buy so much more of it, you wouldn't believe. But I doubt that is going to happen as long as the japanese companies keep highway robbing their own country and believe they can do the same in other regions. 5,776 yen (about 36€ or 53$) for a two-episode disc, are you kidding me?

    But then again. I'm Region 2. If I had the money I would draw up a Europe wide Netflix clone in no time and make millions.
  • I do supply the anime industry with money from plenty of manga sales, though.
  • I do supply the anime industry with money from plenty of manga sales, though.
    You do realize that those are different companies licensing and publishing different products. The only thing that links them together that sometimes one product got made because of an adaption of another product in Japan. Except for maybe Viz I don't believe any anime company has it's hands in the manga publishing business and vice versa.
  • Except for maybe Viz I don't believe any anime company has it's hands in the manga publishing business and vice versa.
    Tokyopop did some anime, but they gave up on it.
  • Netflix doesn't provide crap for revenue back to the anime companies...
    They did have to buy a copy to rent it out.
  • Except for maybe Viz
    ADV does the manga of Azumanga Daioh. And Yotusba, too, I think.
  • Netflix doesn't provide crap for revenue back to the anime companies, so buying a DVD instead of simply Netflixing it is certainly charity.
    Not unless you like the show and you want to watch it anytime you want AND be able to have a whole series without having to wait.
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