GeekNights 080129 - How to Not Suck at Settlers of Catan

Rym

Tonight on GeekNights, we tell you not just how to not suck, but how to almost always win against inexperienced players in Settlers of Catan. In the news, Team Fortress 2 is now an MMO, but at least we got a new map beforehand. Also, Valve has some updates, but not for you.

Scott's Thing - DDR. Times Three. With Ronald McDonald.
Rym's Thing - FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES!

Dr. Timo

Tetsuo's bike has now officially been replaced as the sweetest bike ever!

Conan-San

As far as Team Fortress 2 goes, I'm sure it'll just be like Smash Bros in that some people who realy need to stop thier wavedashing nonsence will just disregard the new weapons anyway.
"Three stock, No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" and all that.

And as far as Steam is concerned, region griefing is the worst thing any company can do in the "everyone's on" age of the internet.
If you need to sort shit out in regards to local sensitivities then fine, ether don't alow the game there or have a patch or something.

There is absolutely no excuse (beyond the previously stated) what so ever for a game to come out months in the UK (Or hell, Australia, it doesn't even need other languages for Australia, right?) after it's first release in ether the US or Japan.

First person to call me on that with the language barrier loses, Zelda OOT, represent.

And maybe that's due to you guys being American, but I do have personal gambits on the subject.

Cremlian

I wonder what kind of epics the medics will drop?

Rym

I wonder what kind of epics the medics will drop?

I don't know. I've been killing them all day, but all they drop is bloody meat and occasionally some ammo...

CrimsonGenesis

The Cam DOES suck!

Kiey

You really didn't touch on the reason why companies don't release across many countries all at once, which is risk and cost. It costs a lot to release a game when you consider all the advertising and marketing required. Thus a game is released in say North America, then if it does well they can use the money they earned from that to pay for marketing in foreign markets. Also if it is a success in the initial market there is much less pressure for it to need to be successful in those other markets, which is where risk comes in.

Risk is mostly applied to games that are typically different, and gamers in one region might not "get," like they would in the home market. Games like Katamari Damacy, the Yakuza series, that horse breeding game, etc. There is no reason for companies to risk releasing a game somewhere if they aren't going to at least break even.

Also I disagree with you guys (well Rym,) about TF2. I still find it to be a lot of fun. But I'll save my argument for Katsucon.

Apreche

Your point about marketing makes sense, except that when you release a game online, it doesn't cost any more to have it available in other countries. If you suddenly decide you want it to be more popular in country X, then you can later market it in country X. Who says you can only market something somewhere before it is available? Why not after it is available? If I make a game and sell it online, allowing someone in Europe to download it, even if I market it there, will only help me. Even if it's only one sale, that's still one more sale than I would have had otherwise.

Kiey

Well the reason that you don't release a game, and then advertise it later as you suggest is that it would look bad if it didn't sell well those first few weeks. Granted eventually it could sell a whole lot, but when it comes to business its all about doing things that make your company look good, and things that give your stock holders confidence in it. It's stupid, but that's how it is.

jcc

Monopoly trading is a great idea.

You don't want to fuck the other players too ruthlessly, or the players who are no longer condenders for the win will sometimes help your opponent just to spite you.

I love sneak victories, like stealing largest army from a player and building a city for a 3 pointer win on the same turn.

Some say that the way to avoid getting fucked by the dice is to choose placement that maximizes the spread of numbers your settlements fall on, even if their probability values are lower. This strategy is not without merit. The probability scores are calculated assuming an infinite number of dice rolls. As the number of dice rolls decreases, the reliability of the probability curve breaks down, to the point that on any individual dice roll, all possible outcomes are equally likely. A single game of Settlers has a number of dice rolls closer to one than infinity, after all.

Apreche

You don't want to fuck the other players too ruthlessly, or the players who are no longer condenders for the win will sometimes help your opponent just to spite you.

All game strategies make the assumption that all players have the same utility. In Settlers that means you have to assume that every player is doing their best to make sure they get the most points for themselves. If someone suddenly decides to say, give all their resources to the second-place player, there's nothing you can do about that. It's just griefing. That player who gave up all their resources has basically given up on the game of Settlers, and is now playing the game of screw you. Don't play with people like that, as they will just ruin games. Games only work properly when everyone is trying their best to win.

jcc

I dunno, it can add an interesting meta to the game, since it turns the endgame into a series of alliances, and you have to gauge whether the risk of alienating the weaker players early in the game is worth the problems they can cause for you end game if they ally with your stronger enemies.

Apreche

I dunno, it can add an interesting meta to the game, since it turns the endgame into a series of alliances, and you have to gauge whether the risk of alienating the weaker players early in the game is worth the problems they can cause for you end game if they ally with your stronger enemies.

I'm not saying it can't be interesting. What I'm saying is that it's a different game.

Look at golf as an easy example. You have four people, and everyone is playing to win. That means they are trying to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Regardless of what you may think of golf, if everyone has the same objective, it works out.

Now let's pretend that one of the players decides he doesn't want to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Instead, he wants to see how many people he can hit with the ball. That's fine and dandy for that guy, but it sucks for everyone around him who wants to actually play golf. Some of the people might find it interesting for the comedy factor of people getting hit with golf balls. That's understandable. However, the person is no longer playing golf. They are griefing.

If taking out the Settlers pieces and having a fun time playing with them is your only objective, then maybe sometimes griefers can create fun scenarios. However, if your objective is to play the game and win the game, then playing with people who do not have the same objective will ruin that.

Rym

since it turns the endgame into a series of alliances,

But only one player can actually win, so the alliance means nothing inside of the game. As Scott said, you've changed the game, and basically just become griefers unless every player in the game unanimously agrees to the new situation.

tektonick

Do you have any thoughts on the various expansions for Settlers, i.e. which are worth buying and might extend the half-life of Settlers before it turns stale? Also, do any of these expansions require new and different strategies on top of those that you explained for the main game?

Bronzdragon

Do you have any thoughts on the various expansions for Settlers, i.e. which are worth buying and might extend the half-life of Settlers before it turns stale? Also, do any of these expansions require new and different strategies on top of those that you explained for the main game?

depending on the expansion it does change a lot or very little, the Seafarers of Catan expansion does not change the game that much, though it provides a couple of new boards which is interesting. The Historical scenario (I) expansion isn't that fun because it 'locks' you into the game they want you to play. they don't allow much freedom anymore.

The Cities and Knights of Catan expansion is worth the money though, it changes the game a whole lot and it makes it basically another game. It is really fun though. The main thing that it does is it replaces all of the stiffy cards for a larger variety. It does do a lot more and it gives the game a hole new dimension. The strategies won't work anymore.

I haven't played the other expansions so I can't tell you about those.

...

I haven't played the other expansions so I can't tell you about those.

I think you got them all. Unless you mean the dozen or so expansions for the two-player card game, which is complete and utter garbage imho compared to the board game. And yes, Seafarers are meh, I don't like that one since you might get a few relatively large isles in which case you get players sitting on their own isle and churning out boats and roads there. Not that great. Cities and Knights is awesome. I don't get to play it that much since people here tend to be boring and whine and moan when you want to play a board game. Even more so when you actually play the game instead of play nice.

Kilarney

I just listened to this episode. It was one of the best episodes I've heard in a long time.

HMTKSteve

I have the big hardcover book that includes game expansions (rules and pieces) and there are some interesting scenarios in there.

One strategy I use 25% of the time (depends on board layout) is to just go for one resource on the island and the matching harbor. Another fun thing to do (fun as in piss off your friends) is to hold some road building cards in your hands and use them defensively when someone tries to build a round to wall you off. It works even better if you can lay the road so it crosses theirs by building a settlement in the middle.

Infinity

Thanks to this episode, I creamed my dad and my brother at this game twice in a row; I had ten when they had six and three! XD

Neito

I have a question that's probably more for people who bought this game recently:

Have you had a problem with the edge pieces (the ports and ocean that make up the boarders of the map) curling on you? Because all six of mine currently curl the the point that they cannot keep the hexes inside the perimeter they make. Is this a common problem?

Apreche

Have you had a problem with the edge pieces (the ports and ocean that make up the boarders of the map) curling on you? Because all six of mine currently curl the the point that they cannot keep the hexes inside the perimeter they make. Is this a common problem?

Aren't those pieces serious heavy duty cardboard tiles? Did you get them wet?

Neito

No, not at all. They've been sitting in the box. It's not a huge amount of curving, but it's enough that they don't lay flat and keep the hexes together. We tried laying them under a heavy book, but that didn't do much.

Apreche

No, not at all. They've been sitting in the box. It's not a huge amount of curving, but it's enough that they don't lay flat and keep the hexes together. We tried laying them under a heavy book, but that didn't do much.

Now I'm confused as to what part you are talking about. You might be talking about a part of the game you are supposed to throw away in the trash.

Neito

No, not at all. They've been sitting in the box. It's not a huge amount of curving, but it's enough that they don't lay flat and keep the hexes together. We tried laying them under a heavy book, but that didn't do much.

Now I'm confused as to what part you are talking about. You might be talking about a part of the game you are supposed to throw away in the trash.

I think our confusion is coming from the fact that I guess older boards look like this, using hexes for the water:


Whereas newer boards, like mine, look like this:


(only mine's not nice wood or plastic like this, but cardboard or paperboard or whatever you call it)

Those long edge pieces have the harbours drawn on them, and those are what's curling. I suppose I could get some wood and glue them down...

EDIT: ALso, am I the only one who really, really wants that second board now?

Apreche

Oh that's shitty. We have the hex water. Far superior.

If you want a Settlers expansion, get Cities & Knights.

Matt

I switched over to the new version with the locking outer edges and I actually prefer it to the hexes. I switched because I was having an issue where occassionally someone would bump into a water hex and shake the whole layout up, causing us to take a minute so straighten all the tiles back out. Was kind of annoying, and I caught the new version for $20 at a store closing so I grabbed it (wouldn't be worth $40 just to get locking edges), and sold my old copy for $25 online (woo profit).