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Ben Stein's Expelled

ColdguyColdguy
edited March 2008 in Movies
This was sent to me fairly recently from a friend of mine. He thought I would be interested in this different type of science documentary. At fist I had no clue about it, but after watching the trailer, it appears to look really good. This might be one to keep an eye on for the movies in the future.
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Comments

  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited March 2008
    [I]t appears to look really good . . .
    . . . at first. Then you realize it's an Intelligent Design propaganda film. It's kind of sad, really. I liked Ben Stein a lot until this.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • AndrewAndrew
    He thought I would be interested in this different type of science documentary.
    This is anything but science.
  • RymRym
    Wow, Ben Stein.respect--
  • ColdguyColdguy
    I thought it was a propaganda film when I heard the concept. Now depending on which direction it is going to go it could either be that or it could take it into an entirely new direction of staying that if Science doesn't listen to people who have ideas that might challenge cornerstones they are essentially controlling the understanding of what we see the universe is. That is why it might be worth keeping tabs on it.
  • RymRym
    it could take it into an entirely new direction of staying that if Science doesn't listen to people who have ideas that might challenge cornerstones they are essentially controlling the understanding of what we see the universe is.
    Except that people saying that Intelligent Design is in any way valid science shouldn't be listened to, as they have neither evidence nor a plan to acquire any.
  • AndrewAndrew
    edited March 2008
    Now depending on which direction it is going to go it could either be that or it could take it into an entirely new direction of staying that if Science doesn't listen to people who have ideas that might challenge cornerstones they are essentially controlling the understanding of what we see the universe is.
    It's not the fact that Intelligent Design/Creationism hasn't had a chance to present their ideas, it's that they have no evidence to support their hypothesis. This is just the current strategy by the Discovery Institute to get ID into schools and make the public believe it is science. First it was "Teach the controversy" but now it's "Help we are being oppressed". The cold truth of the matter is that they have no published work in peer-reviewed journals, no evidence, and have a religious agenda. Evolution is one of the most tested and verifiable scientific theories that exist today. This movie would be the equivalent of someone making a movie saying that people who believe the earth is flat are being quieted by the "evil science community".

    Can you count how many inaccuracies Ben Stein makes during this five minute interview?


    My favorite quote "I'm not a scientist, they [real scientists] could be right"
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • AprecheApreche
    I thought it was a propaganda film when I heard the concept. Now depending on which direction it is going to go it could either be that or it could take it into an entirely new direction of staying that if Science doesn't listen to people who have ideas that might challenge cornerstones they are essentially controlling the understanding of what we see the universe is. That is why it might be worth keeping tabs on it.
    Science doesn't control the understanding of anything. They observe. People with ideas that challenge cornerstones don't mean shit. If they have a new phenomena to observe, scientists will observe it. The reason we have cornerstones are because we have observed the same things repeatedly and consistently for as long as we have been paying attention. We've never seen a perpetual motion machine. We've never seen a miracle. Just because someone has some ideas about these things doesn't mean you should pay attention to them, or give any consideration to what they have to say.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited March 2008
    [I]t could take it into an entirely new direction of staying that if Science doesn't listen to people who have ideas that might challenge cornerstones they are essentially controlling the understanding of what we see the universe is.
    Are you really trying to say that we should "keep an open mind" about intelligent design because it's a "new idea" that "challenges the establishment" or that "the establishment is trying to stifle" intelligent design? If so, you've absorbed too much intelligent design propaganda already.

    This is all you need to know about intelligent design.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • ErynEryn
    edited March 2008
    Holy man, Ben Stein never struck me as the type of guy that would support this kind of thing. Then again, I also didn't know that he was a speech writer for Nixon and Ford (shows how much I've actually seen/heard of him outside his game show and cameos in movies). Like he says in the teaser, people are free to believe whatever they want. But the entire premise of this movie beyond that is SO unfounded, I can't believe a man of his intelligence would be behind it. As you guys have said, ID vs. Darwinism Evolution is NOT a free speech issue. It is an "Intelligent Design does not follow the basic principles of science, therefore it is NOT SCIENCE" issue.

    I found some interesting posts by PZ Meyers about his inclusion in the film. Apparently, the filmmakers weren't entirely honest when they asked for interviews with scientists and prominent atheists:
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/im_gonna_be_a_movie_star.php
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/you_have_got_to_be_kidding_me.php
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/expelled_producer_seems_to_be.php

    Couple other posts just about the movie and the people behind it in general:
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/01/expelled_not_even_released_and.php
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/02/ahistorical_garbage_from_the_p.php
    Post edited by Eryn on
  • AndrewAndrew
    edited March 2008
    It looks like they are trying to bribe people into seeing the movie.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • CremlianCremlian
    Dude where have you guys been, Ben stein has always been a radicial conservative tool. He just has a great sense of humor. Which I can respect.
  • Li_AkahiLi_Akahi
    It looks like they are trying tobribepeople into seeing the movie.
    That is low. I now have no respect for Ben Stein whatsoever.
  • ColdguyColdguy
    *reads posted information*

    Crud, just when I thought a documentary looks intriguing being fair on two sides of an issue, it turns out that it fails badly. Curses to my friend for giving me hope...
  • ......
    "I mean, they have an answer, but it's a bs answer that wouldn't make sense to a small child" NO FUCKING WAY! Perhaps because they're small children? Things small children can understand are physical pain, joy/fun and fairy tales. It's pathetic! And even more fail for bribing schools, talk about indoctrination!
  • Li_AkahiLi_Akahi
    edited March 2008
    Oh no! The crazy creationism people are being discriminated against! What are we to do? (I actually just watched the trailer) Wait, people believe in Darwinism are afraid of it being disproved?
    Post edited by Li_Akahi on
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Ben Stein also voices the Pixies on the Fairly Odd Parents.
  • Li_AkahiLi_Akahi
    edited March 2008
    Ben Stein also voices the Pixies on the Fairly Odd Parents.
    Definitely the best thing he has done that I have seen, especially when the pixies rap.
    Post edited by Li_Akahi on
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Ben Stein also voices the Pixies on the Fairly Odd Parents.
    Definitely the best thing he has done that I have seen, especially when the pixies rap.
    Sadly they had someone else rap for the Pixies when they did one of the Fairly Odd Parent movies.
  • JasonJason
    As you guys have said, ID vs. Darwinism is NOT a free speech issue.
    What is this thing called Darwinism? I don't know anyone who believes in that. All my friends believe in evolution -- WHICH IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Evolutionary science has... um... evolved in the last half-century and has corrected huge problems with Darwin's original theories. That the ID quacks continue to call evolution "Darwinism" is malfeasance, a straw man of unimaginable height, and ignorant.
  • ErynEryn
    edited March 2008
    Sorry, I totally didn't even notice that. Seeing that trailer must have made me type that unconsciously. The constant use of that term was STAGGERING. ><
    Post edited by Eryn on
  • RymRym
    Well, part of the reason we call it "Darwinism" is that the core idea, that species evolve and differentiate over time due to natural selection pressure, was, when backed by his wealth of evidence, one of the most important scientific advances in human history. Charles Darwin was arguably one of the most important men to ever have lived.
  • AndrewAndrew
    Well, part of the reason we call it "Darwinism" is that the core idea, that species evolve and differentiate over time due to natural selection pressure, was, when backed by his wealth of evidence, one of the most important scientific advances in human history. Charles Darwin was arguably one of the most important men to ever have lived.
    It's funny though, the ID proponents will claim that there is a "church of darwinism" and that we all "faithfully and irrationally" believe that he was perfect and that he was a patron saint of science. They use the same vernacular that we use against them to try and discredit us. Talk about hypocritical.
  • mkg12mkg12
    edited March 2008
    Be careful about the word "believe" because they may try to argue that, " See it's just another belief system"(Though it is a belief not founded on faith) or some crap. At this point in time it's not about whether you believe it or not, it's whether you accept it.
    Post edited by mkg12 on
  • Li_AkahiLi_Akahi
    edited March 2008
    My mom thought Darwinism was a religion. I found that pretty funny.
    Post edited by Li_Akahi on
  • ErynEryn
    edited April 2008
    Guess who's suing the makers of Expelled? Not who you might expect.
    John Lennon’s widow, Yoko Ono, and his sons are suing the filmmakers of “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” for using the song “Imagine” in the documentary without permission.

    […]

    Yoko Ono, son, Sean Ono Lennon, and Julian Lennon, John Lennon’s son from his first marriage, along with privately held publisher EMI Blackwood Music Inc filed suit in U.S. District Court in Manhattan seeking to bar the filmmakers and their distributors from continuing to use “Imagine” in the movie.

    They are also seeking unspecified damages.
    http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=4394
    Post edited by Eryn on
  • NorvuNorvu
    Yeah, I heard about this a lot of Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. I can't even begin to understand these people, I really want to see this movie to see what he's trying to do... get ID in schools or college or something? Gah, what a load of horse manure.

    I had a few paragraphs of ranting about stuff everyone on this forum already knows, about why creationism is not science and how flawed it is and the social impact of bringing up children into the world who don't care about logic and study, but just proving they're right and twisting evidence and known science to fit their world view, rather than the scientific way, which is almost opposite of this.
  • jccjcc
    about stuff everyone on this forum already knows, about why creationism is not science and how flawed it is and the social impact of bringing up children into the world who don't care about logic and study, but just proving they're right and twisting evidence and known science to fit their world view, rather than the scientific way, which is almost opposite of this.
    Too late. :) Almost everyone, creationist and non-creationist alike, does this. Blame an ineffective public education system.
  • jccjcc
    edited April 2008
    whoops, double post
    Post edited by jcc on
  • NorvuNorvu
    Too late. :) Almost everyone, creationist and non-creationist alike, does this. Blame an ineffective public education system.
    As soon as they opened the Creationist Museum I knew it was too late to stop this stupid movement where it stood. And, yeah, we should blame the schools... they're the ones who are run by religious people looking for any reason to, not only have their idea taught in a place it doesn't belong, but undermine evolutionary theory.
  • jccjcc
    I meant too late to keep people from "bringing up children into the world who don't care about logic and study, but just proving they're right and twisting evidence and known science to fit their world view". The religious and non-religious are equally guilty of this, I think.
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