Not really, it doesn't sway my following of Obama. It's just his preacher, he doesn't necessarily show Obama's political views and I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal over it.
It's just so obvious how all the media does is dig and dig and dig to find every skeleton in every candidate's closet. Then, if there aren't enough skeletons, they try to find other people who do have skeletons and associate them with the candidate. Yawn.
I'm curious, Scott, and I'm willing to play devil's advocate for the sake of amusement. You've said that anyone who believes in a deity is irrational. Does Obama's professed faith mean he's irrational, and if so is he qualified to hold office?
I'm curious, Scott, and I'm willing to play devil's advocate for the sake of amusement. You've said that anyone who believes in a deity is irrational. Does Obama's professed faith mean he's irrational, and if so is he qualified to hold office?
On several shows. Regardless of whether you support him, does his belief in a higher power disqualify him from your consideration? Don't try ducking the question.
I'm curious, Scott, and I'm willing to play devil's advocate for the sake of amusement. You've said that anyone who believes in a deity is irrational. Does Obama's professed faith mean he's irrational, and if so is he qualified to hold office?
On several shows. Regardless of whether you support him, does his belief in a higher power disqualify him from your consideration? Don't try ducking the question.
If he really does, then yes of course it disqualifies him.
The question to ask now is whether or not he really believes. There's no way I can know if any of the candidates really believe or not. If you were running for president in this country, and you were atheist, would you lie and pretend to be all churchy?
If he does believe, you think he should be disqualified. If he doesn't believe and is lying about it, why should you trust him to become president? It takes a man with a tiny spine not to stand up for what he believes in. Why would you allow such a man to continue saying he's a Christian when he's not?
If he does believe, you think he should be disqualified. If he doesn't believe and is lying about it, why should you trust him to become president? It takes a man with a tiny spine not to stand up for what he believes in. Why would you allow such a man to continue saying he's a Christian when he's not?
Sometimes ends justify the means. If you need to attain power to to good, and the only way to attain power is to do wrong, if the good is greater than the wrong, sometimes you have to go for it.
So would that make wire-tapping okay? Does that make Guantanamo okay? Are you saying torture in a ticking bomb situation is okay? Where do you draw the line -- are you only forgiving of people you like?
So would that make wire-tapping okay? Does that make Guantanamo okay? Are you saying torture in a ticking bomb situation is okay? Where do you draw the line -- are you only forgiving of people you like?
I said that sometimes ends justify the means, not always. You need to examine the specific circumstances of each situation to determine if and when ends justify means. For wire-tapping, Guantanmo, and torture I think the answer is a big resounding "no". They are all examples of terrible means that have produced no verifiable positive ends.
How is defrauding the public for votes any different? What criteria do you use?
I don't see what's so hard to understand here. Morals are subjective. Good and evil aren't objective real existences. Everyone can decide for themselves what they think is right and what they think is wrong.
I personally don't lie, but if by lying I could attain the power to help millions of people, I might. I certainly wouldn't blame someone else for doing so, unless of course they ended up hurting instead of helping.
If I had the power to torture somebody, there is no realistic benefit resulting from torturing somebody that would allow me to justify it to myself. Nor could I find any valid reason to forgive anyone who permits, orders, or commits acts of torture.
So, why do you hold candidates for President to a higher standard than the Constitution?
I don't disagree with the constitution at all in this case. I have never, and would never, support legislation of any kind that would require any religious test as qualification for holding office. I fully support people's right to believe whatever they want, as well as their freedom to vote for whoever they want.
Just because I defend someone's right to do something, doesn't mean I respect them or approve of them. This is middle school school social studies class material we're dealing with here. "I don't agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it." There is no hypocrisy in saying that religious people have a right to do their thing, while simultaneously not approving of religion.
But just so long as I've got you on the record here, you're official stance, Scott, based on your above statements, is that either Barack Obama is a religious nut who is irrational and unqualified to be president, or he's a liar.
But just so long as I've got you on the record here, you're official stance, Scott, based on your above statements, is that either Barack Obama is a religious nut who is irrational and unqualified to be president, or he's a liar.
Close. My official stance is that every major candidate is either a nut, a liar, or both. However, the magnitude of nuttiness varies depending on the candidate.
There is a big difference between one pastor, a church's stance and a person attending. Obama has given a great speech and denounced much of what the pastor said. However if you actually listened to the actual statements the pastor said instead of just sound clips that said "God Damn America" without actually putting it in context, you'll find many of the controversial messages are based in fact or at least represent viable opinions. That's not saying that some of what he was saying was complete batshit. I'm really really really tired of people being quoted out of context.
While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies.
His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."
"No problem, just let me in," says the man.
"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."
"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the senator.
"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."
And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.
Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.
They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.
Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.
Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises...
The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.
"Now it's time to visit heaven."
So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.
"Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity."
The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: "Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell."
So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.
He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.
The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. "I don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"
The devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were campaigning...... Today you voted."
Atheists are the least trusted minority in the United States. No one can run for president and have any chance of winning without either being crazy or lying about it. I have no choice but to either overlook the craziness or the lying, or else disenfranchise myself entirely. Many of our founding fathers were clearly atheists, claiming deism or some other faith simply to avoid trouble.
As such, I only support candidates who I either suspect are actually atheists, or who in the very least appear less crazy than anyone who actually believes in the literal truth of the christian bible.
Barrack Obama gets a 30% chance of being an atheist, based on everything he's said to date.
So have you decided which nut and/or liar you like yet? What do you think the deciding factor will be?
I don't actively like any of the nutty liars, but I tolerate them to different degrees. I just have so much politics fatigue, I don't have energy for this shit anymore. For seven plus years it has been nothing but yelling and screaming, whining and complaining, about how terrible everything is. Meanwhile, my geeky existence is just fine. I want to concentrate on my geeky life, and not have to deal with this shit anymore.
My vote for president barely matters because I live in New York. The office of the president has a lot less power than people think it does. Congressional and local elections are far more important to me than presidential ones. For president, I support whichever candidate will result in the most people calming the fuck down. I'm just so tired of this shit. Let's just go back to living our lives. I want every other conversation to be about happy video games an anime, not about upsetting worldly matters over which I have barely any influence.
For 200 plus years it has been nothing but yelling and screaming, whining and complaining, about how terrible everything is.
Fixed that for you.
Perhaps, but it wasn't in my face until more recently. That's probably due to some combination of recent world events, and also the fact that such screaming did not come to my attention when I was a child. Regardless, I'm beginning to feel a lot like Bill Cosby. I don't want justice, I want quiet.
Comments
The question to ask now is whether or not he really believes. There's no way I can know if any of the candidates really believe or not. If you were running for president in this country, and you were atheist, would you lie and pretend to be all churchy?
I personally don't lie, but if by lying I could attain the power to help millions of people, I might. I certainly wouldn't blame someone else for doing so, unless of course they ended up hurting instead of helping.
If I had the power to torture somebody, there is no realistic benefit resulting from torturing somebody that would allow me to justify it to myself. Nor could I find any valid reason to forgive anyone who permits, orders, or commits acts of torture.
Just because I defend someone's right to do something, doesn't mean I respect them or approve of them. This is middle school school social studies class material we're dealing with here. "I don't agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it." There is no hypocrisy in saying that religious people have a right to do their thing, while simultaneously not approving of religion.
His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."
"No problem, just let me in," says the man.
"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."
"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the senator.
"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."
And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.
Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.
They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.
Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.
Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises...
The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.
"Now it's time to visit heaven."
So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.
"Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity."
The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: "Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell."
So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.
He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.
The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. "I don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"
The devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were campaigning...... Today you voted."
Atheists are the least trusted minority in the United States. No one can run for president and have any chance of winning without either being crazy or lying about it. I have no choice but to either overlook the craziness or the lying, or else disenfranchise myself entirely. Many of our founding fathers were clearly atheists, claiming deism or some other faith simply to avoid trouble.
As such, I only support candidates who I either suspect are actually atheists, or who in the very least appear less crazy than anyone who actually believes in the literal truth of the christian bible.
Barrack Obama gets a 30% chance of being an atheist, based on everything he's said to date.
My vote for president barely matters because I live in New York. The office of the president has a lot less power than people think it does. Congressional and local elections are far more important to me than presidential ones. For president, I support whichever candidate will result in the most people calming the fuck down. I'm just so tired of this shit. Let's just go back to living our lives. I want every other conversation to be about happy video games an anime, not about upsetting worldly matters over which I have barely any influence.
Also, all it takes for America to go to shit is for smart people to do nothing.