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Baby Bible Bashers. Is this child abuse?

edited March 2008 in Flamewars
So, do you guys think this is child abuse?

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Comments

  • edited March 2008
    Based on the first three minutes, absolutely. I'm going to watch more, but this documentary feels very similar to Jesus Camp. Instilling hatred like that... what terrible people his parents are. It's irresponsible.

    [Edit] Aha. There's that homeschooling thing again. I'll finish it tomorrow, I hate getting all depressed and pissed off before I got to bed =P
    Post edited by Sail on
  • It would be very easy to state that what these parents are doing is child abuse; I think it would be an insult and a disservice to do so. Child abuse is the physical, emotional, or sexual abuse of children, almost none of which I saw when watching this documentary. Yes what Terry Durham’s grandmother said to him after his service can be seen as child abuse, however I would contend that the purpose behind her words is more constructive criticism rather than mental child abuse due to the fact that she is an ordained preacher herself.

    What I saw in every circumstance presented by the documentary was parents attempting to raise their children to be their vision of a productive member of society, which is how every good parent raises their children. We can disagree with what they see as a productive member of society but that does not mean that they are abusing their children.
  • edited March 2008
    This isn't child abuse but brain washing is still pretty bad. I watched the whole episode of this, I think it was Horizon but I'm not sure.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • edited March 2008
    Child abuse in the literal definition, no. The product of parents raising them to be a certain way, yes.

    I say this because I went to a church once with children like this and parents who nurtured them. I think it's partially exploitation though. That Terry kid is definitely being exploited for his family's glory. Who wouldn't notice a child doing this stuff? The kids are doing this because their parents taught them to. They wouldn't be the same way if they were raised by different people.
    Post edited by Viga on
  • My friend's aunt raises her children like this. They're homeschooled, they can only watch bible movies, they aren't allowed to read anything except catholic literature, they can't play video games...It's depressing.

    We tried to show the kids Spirited Away, but their parents freaked out and dragged them out of the room, even though they were CLEARLY enjoying something completely new.
  • Like was said already, no it's not abuse in the literal sense, but it is unfortunate. This is what they've been taught, so this is all they know. I think it's terrible. Kids should be allowed to be kids.
  • I can't wait until those kids hit puberty. Then we will see quite a change in their beliefs.
  • I find this whole documentary completely terrifying. The fact that those children could be brainwashed so far that they give up their childhoods is a horrible thought. They should be allowed to live their lives and have fun, not picket outside of abortion clinics.
  • Terry is being taken advantage of big time. The dad is a sleaze-ball trying to get rich of his kid. It sort of seemed to me that the Brazilian girl was just doing something to please her dad, she may or may not actually believe it but she probably likes the idea of her dad being proud of her more than she wants to save everyone.

    The young hicksville kid (forgot his name) seemed actually genuine in what his 7-year-old mind believes. If you go to hell you get burned and eaten by worms and probably all sorts of stuff his parents taught him would happen if he didn't follow jebus (probably child abuse to some extent). Seemed like they were the only ones who actually believed in what they were saying rather than trying to get rich from it.
  • The question of civil liberties of children will never be answered as long as adults hold all the power. I don't expect this Catch-22 to even be addressed in my lifetime.
  • My friend's aunt raises her children like this. They're homeschooled, they can only watch bible movies, they aren't allowed to read anything except catholic literature, they can't play video games...It's depressing.
    This is why I'm such an advocate of mandatory public schooling. If nothing else, it gives every child at least the chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular education. They can believe whatever they want as adults, but they need to be afforded the chance to escape the narrow worldview (whatever it may be) of oppressive parenting.
  • edited March 2008
    My friend's aunt raises her children like this. They're homeschooled, they can only watch bible movies, they aren't allowed to read anything except catholic literature, they can't play video games...It's depressing.
    This is why I'm such an advocate of mandatory public schooling. If nothing else, it gives every child at least the chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular education. They can believe whatever they want as adults, but they need to be afforded the chance to escape the narrow worldview (whatever it may be) of oppressive parenting.
    Ah, but we also need the choice to escape the zero-tolerance policies, mandatory subject-taking and drop-of-a-hat homework assignment that is forced upon children in public schools. It's very easy to make one option mandatory, eliminating whatever problems there might be in specific situations on the other side.

    However, I think you'd find other, just as serious problems emanating from that decision. Parent-child bonding is difficult when the kid spends most of his day at school, in his room doing homework, and idly sitting in front of a screen, so we'd probably see a nominal increase in child rebellion. Also, parents tend to take a "it's not our problem - let the schools deal with it" approach when the kids spend most of their day at school. How does that affect the kid? It certainly couldn't have a positive effect on their emotional growth.

    It's a really tough issue. There are problems with some homeschooling parents forcing their beliefs on the children, but there are plenty of happy homeschooling families out there - I interact with them every day. Of course, there are downsides and upsides to public/private schools as well. Assuming that one option should be mandatory is, in my eyes, foolish and narrow-minded.
    I don't want to turn this discussion into another homeschooling flamewar, but I just want to make my point clear.
    Post edited by ProfPangloss on
  • edited March 2008
    This is why I'm such an advocate of mandatory public schooling. If nothing else, it gives every child at least the chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular education. They can believe whatever they want as adults, but they need to be afforded the chance to escape the narrow worldview (whatever it may be) of oppressive parenting.
    The chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular discussion is very important. Despite that, I think some amount of public schooling should be mandatory for an even more important reason. Kids need to be informed of their constitutional rights.

    If someone spent their entire childhood from 0-18 as tools of their parents, it's conceivable they could go through life not knowing their rights. Their parents might not teach them that they can vote. They might not allow them to know they can go wherever they want without their parent's permission. Universal public education of some kind is the foundation of a free society because if people aren't informed of their rights, then they effectively don't have them. It is our duty as citizens to make sure that all other citizens are aware of the rights and responsibilities that come with said citizenship.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • I could only watch - no, I actually only listened... But anyways. I listened to the first two.

    Has anyone thought of the possible dangers these kids are going into? The results of being taught so many different types of people are bad? That disobeying their parents is -sin-?

    First of all, even though the kids are being watched by parents - and here I'm worried more for the lil blonde kid on the streets preaching - they can't stop pissed off drivers, people throwing stuff, criticisms and insults... People don't like their rights or their beliefs trodden on, and some react violently. It might not even physically hurt the kid, but to hear themselves being called names by not kids, but adults? I can't believe what that'd feel like to a child.

    And what if one of them grows up to be homosexual? Or maybe raped and then with child? Maybe - and this is the main reason I support abortion - they might die or wreck their/the child's life by giving birth? The fear they might carry if they lie, as all people do and will - and the same with when they disobey their parents! The close-mindedness these children will carry for probably the rest of their lives...

    That's not strictly child abuse, but it could end up becoming this. I wish I could sit down with one of them, just one! And tell them that's not how the world works - that while God may or may not be there, there will always be evil, but you're not sinning by doing little things or even big things. Sometimes it's better with abortion, for both mother and child. Sometimes you need to lie or disobey. That if you're one way - say, homosexual - then it's natural and it's not sinful. They can think of it as God's burden to bear, like a handicap but one without cure, but they can't call it sin. I want to tell them that .. well, some things are called sins because they hurt you or others.

    Gawd. I want to cry now. I hate it when people do things like this - it hurts a lot to see people breeding close mindedness, and that there's more people out there being born and bred to hate others.. to hate me.
  • edited March 2008
    My friend's aunt raises her children like this. They're homeschooled, they can only watch bible movies, they aren't allowed to read anything except catholic literature, they can't play video games...It's depressing.
    This is why I'm such an advocate of mandatory public schooling. If nothing else, it gives every child at least the chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular education. They can believe whatever they want as adults, but they need to be afforded the chance to escape the narrow worldview (whatever it may be) of oppressive parenting.
    Honestly, I think the sole reason why they're being home-schooled is to shelter them completely from society.

    They were taken away from the room when we were playing MARIO GALAXY, since their parents didn't want their children to idolize a character that didn't have any biblical origins!
    Post edited by VentureJ on
  • Man, their parents are going to have a hard time when they become teenagers. They will probably rebel in quite an amazing fashion.
  • They're 14, 12, and 8. If they're going to rebel (there are really no signs of them wanting to do so), it should happen sometime soon.
  • Man, their parents are going to have a hard time when they become teenagers. They will probably rebel in quite an amazing fashion.
    Eh, how would they do that if they don't know that they could have it better? If you don't know you're being kept down you are not going to rebel.
  • Man, their parents are going to have a hard time when they become teenagers. They will probably rebel in quite an amazing fashion.
    Eh, how would they do that if they don't know that they could have it better? If you don't know you're being kept down you are not going to rebel.
    It's not a guarantee, but it's somewhat likely. Look at the amish.
  • It's not a guarantee, but it's somewhat likely. Look at the amish.
    True, generalized and assumed a bit too much.
  • Just you wait. We'll be like drug pushers, but with video games and anime instead of contraband.
  • edited March 2008
    @ SniperDragon: You stated earlier that they showed interest in Spirited Away, hopefully they might ask you more about the movie or other works similar to it. With the seed planted, the interest may grow until they decide that they are going to watch more and actually live. Also, you said that the eldest is 14. That one still has time to rebel despite being the oldest, he/she might have not found his/her legs to stand up and walk onto it's own path.
    EDIT: This was typed before reading the above post.
    Post edited by Li_Akahi on
  • contraband. Skittles.
  • My friend's aunt raises her children like this. They're homeschooled, they can only watch bible movies, they aren't allowed to read anything except catholic literature, they can't play video games...It's depressing.
    This is why I'm such an advocate of mandatory public schooling. If nothing else, it gives every child at least the chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular education. They can believe whatever they want as adults, but they need to be afforded the chance to escape the narrow worldview (whatever it may be) of oppressive parenting.
    Ah, but we also need the choice to escape the zero-tolerance policies, mandatory subject-taking and drop-of-a-hat homework assignment that is forced upon children in public schools. It's very easy to make one option mandatory, eliminating whatever problems there might be in specific situations on the other side.

    However, I think you'd find other, just as serious problems emanating from that decision. Parent-child bonding is difficult when the kid spends most of his day at school, in his room doing homework, and idly sitting in front of a screen, so we'd probably see a nominal increase in child rebellion. Also, parents tend to take a "it's not our problem - let the schools deal with it" approach when the kids spend most of their day at school. How does that affect the kid? It certainly couldn't have a positive effect on their emotional growth.

    It's a really tough issue. There are problems with some homeschooling parents forcing their beliefs on the children, but there are plenty of happy homeschooling families out there - I interact with them every day. Of course, there are downsides and upsides to public/private schools as well. Assuming that one option should be mandatory is, in my eyes, foolish and narrow-minded.
    I don't want to turn this discussion into another homeschooling flamewar, but I just want to make my point clear.
    From a child-psychology point of view, the general lack of socialization most (not all) home-schooled children receive means that some sort of group education is going to come out on top. Be it a public, private, boarding, or charter school, or an organized group of parents teaching a group of children (who are not related, having a litter of children yourself doesn't count)), that child is going to do far better in the general public than one who has little or no socialization with the outside world. Keeping a child in a mental and social box is a horrible thing to do, and part of the reason most parents turn to such drastic anti-social behavior is paranoia based in religion. You could draw an analogy to animals that are raised by humans form birth. Most can not be released into the wild because they do not have the survival and social tools to get along outside of the artificial environment they grew up in.

    I'd also argue that the parents who wash their hands of any responsibility in regards to their children's education are equally as stupid as those who think they can teach everything, and teach it better than all the teachers at a school.
  • The whole point of parenting is raising your kids so that they can make it in the "real" world. Any parent who shelters their kids is only making it worse for them (in the long run). Some amount of sheltering is OK based on the child's ability to understand what they are seeing (You don't show hard core porn to a 5 yr old), but complete and utter sheltering/brainwashing is just plain stupid.

    I was reading a thread on home schooling on another board and one member (a child psychologist) mentioned that the top two reasons for home schooling are Religion and incest.
  • My friend's aunt raises her children like this. They're homeschooled, they can only watch bible movies, they aren't allowed to read anything except catholic literature, they can't play video games...It's depressing.
    This is why I'm such an advocate of mandatory public schooling. If nothing else, it gives every child at least the chance to be exposed to rational thought and secular education. They can believe whatever they want as adults, but they need to be afforded the chance to escape the narrow worldview (whatever it may be) of oppressive parenting.
    Ah, but we also need the choice to escape the zero-tolerance policies, mandatory subject-taking and drop-of-a-hat homework assignment that is forced upon children in public schools. It's very easy to make one option mandatory, eliminating whatever problems there might be in specific situations on the other side.

    However, I think you'd find other, just as serious problems emanating from that decision. Parent-child bonding is difficult when the kid spends most of his day at school, in his room doing homework, and idly sitting in front of a screen, so we'd probably see a nominal increase in child rebellion. Also, parents tend to take a "it's not our problem - let the schools deal with it" approach when the kids spend most of their day at school. How does that affect the kid? It certainly couldn't have a positive effect on their emotional growth.

    It's a really tough issue. There are problems with some homeschooling parents forcing their beliefs on the children, but there are plenty of happy homeschooling families out there - I interact with them every day. Of course, there are downsides and upsides to public/private schools as well. Assuming that one option should be mandatory is, in my eyes, foolish and narrow-minded.
    I don't want to turn this discussion into another homeschooling flamewar, but I just want to make my point clear.
    From a child-psychology point of view, the general lack of socialization most (not all) home-schooled children receive means that some sort of group education is going to come out on top. Be it a public, private, boarding, or charter school, or an organized group of parents teaching a group of children (who are not related, having a litter of children yourself doesn't count)), that child is going to do far better in the general public than one who has little or no socialization with the outside world. Keeping a child in a mental and social box is a horrible thing to do, and part of the reason most parents turn to such drastic anti-social behavior is paranoia based in religion. You could draw an analogy to animals that are raised by humans form birth. Most can not be released into the wild because they do not have the survival and social tools to get along outside of the artificial environment they grew up in.

    I'd also argue that the parents who wash their hands of any responsibility in regards to their children's education are equally as stupid as those who think they can teach everything, and teach it better than all the teachers at a school.
    All I need are the numbers that show that "most homeschoolers have social issues," or I can't concede.
  • I was reading a thread on home schooling on another board and one member (a child psychologist) mentioned that the top two reasons for home schooling are Religion and incest.
    Do you have any source for this besides "some guy on the internet"?
  • I was reading a thread on home schooling on another board and one member (a child psychologist) mentioned that the top two reasons for home schooling are Religion and incest.
    Do you have any source for this besides "some guy on the internet"?
    Nope, else I would have linked. Consider it anecdotal evidence.
  • edited March 2008
    9:20-30 of the third video. I think we are moving on to sexual abuse, never mind mental.
    Post edited by Zeehat on
  • This kills me, because these kids, especially the first two, are so cute and have such energy and all this energy is just going into all this hate.
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