Bashing fans of shows

Geo

I am so sick of hearing people (not just here, but in general) bash on fans who gush over shows like Avatar (of which I am a big fan) or Naruto. Who said that anyone could call anyone things like "Narutards", because that is just plain mean and not cool. I understand that freedom of speech would totally destroy this thread, there is no question about that? But the thing is, is that principle also applies to people who like Naruto or Avatar. I just wish people would respect others for their opinions and their fandom of something.

Rym

Who said that anyone could call anyone things like "Narutards", because that is just plain mean and not cool.

I believe it's more an indictment of the outward culture associated with the fandom. Vocal Naruto fans, for example, tend to act a certain way at anime conventions, much do the disdain of those around them.

Also, "Narutard" rarely refers specifically to fans of Naruto, but is used most often as a generic term for any young, troublesome, loud anime fan with a narrow interest in one or two shounen fighting shows.

VentureJ

We can be respectful of anyone's interests (and maybe share them, in the case of Avatar), but it's obnoxious to spam the forum with MULTIPLE THREADS OF THE SAME SHOW.

Eryn

To be fair, lordyupa only started two of those Avatar threads. The main one was started by HMTKSteve, the one about the Boiling Rock was started by Norvu, the one about the tentative interview was started by Rym, and the last one doesn't count because it's a WIP thread mostly filled with lulz. That may still be a bit inconsiderate, seeing as he could have posted in the main Avatar thread about those topics, but he's definitely not at the level of spamming the forum.

As for the whole "LOL NARUTARDZ" issue: Rym's explanation pretty much covers it. A few internet people may use terms like "Narutard" incorrectly to cover all fans of a certain show, but the people who use those terms that way tend to be about as stupid, if not more stupid than those they're bashing. The vast majority of fans use "Narutard" and its ilk to refer to fans who act in specific annoying ways, as described in Rym's post.

Apreche

I believe it's more an indictment of the outward culture associated with the fandom.

This is absolutely true. The same thing happens in all fandoms. In fact, it can even occur between people who are fans of the same thing.

Just this weekend I was at my parent's house. We were hanging out, flipping between hockey and baseball, and we passed by the NFL draft. The draft was in Radio City Music Hall this year, so there were plenty of Giants and Jets fans there. My family is all Giants fans. That didn't stop us from making fun of the stupid Giants fans who were drunk and shirtless with full body paint outside of Radio City for the stupid draft.

We were Giants fans making fun of other Giants fans not for their choice of fandom, but the incredibly stupid ways in which they express their fandom. I think the way someone expresses their fandoms says a lot more about their character than what they are actually fans of. Even if someone has the exact opposite taste of myself, if they express their taste in a classy way, I can respect that. Likewise, even if someone has the exact same taste as me, if they conduct themselves shamefully, they get no respect.

Viga

Even if someone has the exact opposite taste of myself, if they express their taste in a classy way, I can respect that. Likewise, even if someone has the exact same taste as me, if they conduct themselves shamefully, they get no respect.

That sums up my feelings for anime fans.

Eryn

I think the way someone expresses their fandoms says a lot more about their character than what they are actually fans of. Even if someone has the exact opposite taste of myself, if they express their taste in a classy way, I can respect that. Likewise, even if someone has the exact same taste as me, if they conduct themselves shamefully, they get no respect.

QFT. The example I always use when talking about this is one of my friends on LJ, who is quite possibly the most intelligent, well-spoken Shounen Jump fan I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. The shows/manga I usually hear her talking about are Naruto, Bleach, D.Grayman, and sometimes Death Note. She mods a Naruto community with great "no bullshit" ways of doing things, and always has interesting things to say about new chapters/episodes of the things she likes. The latter is useful for me when trying to keep up with the zeitgeist of anime fandom, since I don't currently watch/read any of the Shounen Jump properties, nor do I want to.

kage_rod

Who said that anyone could call anyone things like "Narutards", because that is just plain mean and not cool.

Half the time, it's the fans themselves making up that term and using it. After all, it's fun to laugh at yourself, is it not? If I liked Naruto, I'd probably call myself a Narutard. I guess it's just a thing where you have to distance yourself and say, "Yeah, it's an insult, but it's a petty one."

I guess I don't quite understand how you guys can get so upset over words, just like I don't understand why other lesbians become enraged when called "dykes" or even "lezbos" - words that make me giggle and that I call myself in a joking manner. Routinely my anime club makes fun of animes and anime fans - calling out jokes to each other about no lives, no sex, no girlfriends, etc., and the same with WoW, video games, and so on. It's all in the name of fun.

HMTKSteve

I've been waiting for an opportunity to use this!

jcc

"But the Narutards are already on probation."

"They are? Well, as of this moment, they're on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!"

:P

Viga

@ HTMK: You could've put that in the ToTD thread. XD

Geo

insult, but it's a petty one."

I guess I don't quite understand how you guys can get so upset over words, just like I don't understand why other lesbians become enraged when called "dykes" or even "lezbos" - words that make me giggle and that I call myself in a joking manner. Routinely my anime club makes fun of animes and anime fans - calling out jokes to each other about no lives, no sex, no girlfriends, etc., and the same with WoW, video games, and so on. It's all in the name of fun.

Don't get me wrong, I like laughing at how stupid I act as much as the next person. But there's a fine line that can be crossed when someone calls you a terrible insult . But for people who are somewhat easily offended by insults (like myself), it's really hard to not get mad. Most of the time I just swallow my pride and don't react at all. But I get kinda angry when someone crosses the aforementioned line. It's not easy to explain, you just have to be like that to actually understand it.

I think what I'm really trying to say is that if you know someone is calling you a narutard (or Avatard, etc) and it's all in jest, then it's okay to either laugh at it or make a funny sarcastic response. But when someone calls you a narutard and you know that they are trying to either break your balls or spirit and their intent is to verbally harm you, than it's a completely different story.

Geo

I've been waiting for an opportunity to use this!

LOL!

Starfox

But there's a fine line that can be crossed when someone calls you a terrible insult . But for people who aresomewhateasily offended by insults (like myself)

Being called a name because you happen to like a certain TV show is a "terrible insult"? It hurts you that badly? You need to grow some thicker skin. And if you are easily offended by insults, what are you doing on the internet?

One Sin

But there's a fine line that can be crossed when someone calls you a terrible insult . But for people who aresomewhateasily offended by insults (like myself)

Being called a name because you happen to like a certainTV showis a "terrible insult"? It hurts you that badly? You need to grow some thicker skin. And if you are easily offended by insults, what are you doing on the internet?

Seconded.

I, for one, will relentlessly disparage anyone who openly parades their "awesome show" in a manner that includes (but is not limited to) unmerited superiority, mindless rambling and quotespamming, and especially indignant defensiveness. Respect be damned. As you can see, the problem tends to be with the fan; not the show.

On a slightly related note, does anyone else like to provoke people who seem particularly sensitive to criticism?

jcc

But there's a fine line that can be crossed when someone calls you a terrible insult . But for people who aresomewhateasily offended by insults (like myself)

Being called a name because you happen to like a certainTV showis a "terrible insult"? It hurts you that badly? You need to grow some thicker skin. And if you are easily offended by insults, what are you doing on the internet?

At the very least it's impolite. People ought to be politer, but I don't expect it nowadays, since it is less likely than ever before that being a jerk will get you a fist to the face or a knife in the gut.

Linkigi(Link-ee-jee)

But there's a fine line that can be crossed when someone calls you a terrible insult . But for people who aresomewhateasily offended by insults (like myself)

Being called a name because you happen to like a certainTV showis a "terrible insult"? It hurts you that badly? You need to grow some thicker skin. And if you are easily offended by insults, what are you doing on the internet?

Seconded.

I, for one, will relentlessly disparage anyone who openly parades their "awesome show" in a manner that includes (but is not limited to) unmerited superiority, mindless rambling and quotespamming, and especially indignant defensiveness. Respect be damned. As you can see, the problem tends to be with the fan; not the show.

On a slightly related note, does anyone else like to provoke people who seem particularly sensitive to criticism?

*raises hand*

Seriously, there are a lot of people who need to grow some thicker skin. I have seen people react almost violently when someone makes fun of their fandom or their favorite show, even in a joking manner. If someone is making fun of a show you like, don't take it personally. You are not the show, and an insult to the show is not an insult directed at you. If somebody is making fun of you for being a fan, either ignore it and laugh at them silently because they're probably stupid, or I would suggest you maybe just try to step back- just for one second!- and try to get a more objective view on why they are making fun of you, and maybe change how you express your fandom.

This reminds me especially of one of my best friends at school, who is almost totally awesome- but he's a pretty strong Christian. (A Protestant denomination, I forget which.) Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but he is extremely sensitive about anything that would even appear to be a joke about his faith. I think the best example is how he absolutely refuses to watch the Life Of Brian ever, simply because of the first and last scenes. It seriously gets on my nerves.

Railith

I wish the Japanese cartoons I like were popular enough to warrant their own derogatory term.

Apreche

Seriously, there are a lot of people who need to grow some thicker skin. I have seen people react almost violently when someone makes fun of their fandom or their favorite show, even in a joking manner. If someone is making fun of a show you like, don't take it personally. You are not the show, and an insult to the show is not an insult directed at you.

I've noticed that a lot of people in general will take it personally if you say anything negative about anything they like or own. It's not just shows. If you insult anything they like, they will take it as a personal insult. I knew a guy once who would often say "Don't make fun of people's stuff!" Screw that I say. If we're going to criticize anything in this world, it should definitely be things, especially works of art like shows. Art is created with the expectation it will receive criticism.

Also, consider this. You are a fan of show X. Now let's say I make some invalid criticisms of show X. Well, you just point out they are invalid, and there's no reason to get upset. Ok, now let's say I make some valid criticisms of show X. Well, if you still like the show despite the flaws being pointed out to you, you just say "Yeah, those are valid criticisms, but I like it despite those flaws." The only kinds of criticisms someone can make are valid or invalid. That's it. So what reason is there to get upset?

In my opinion, if someone gets upset when you criticize things they like, it is because they believe your criticisms. When you criticize the show, you are making them aware of the fact that they are lying to themselves. They have been telling themselves the show is amazing, but deep inside they know you are right. This is why they get upset. Another possibility is that they do like the show, but your comments made them realize they don't know why they like the show. People get upset when they are unable to answer hard questions, such as "Why do you like this?"

RichLather

Otaku ja ne zo! Otoko da!

jcc

I've noticed that a lot of people in general will take it personally if you say anything negative about anything they like or own. It's not just shows. If you insult anything they like, they will take it as a personal insult. I knew a guy once who would often say "Don't make fun of people's stuff!" Screw that I say. If we're going to criticize anything in this world, it should definitely be things, especially works of art like shows. Art is created with the expectation it will receive criticism.

Also, consider this. You are a fan of show X. Now let's say I make some invalid criticisms of show X. Well, you just point out they are invalid, and there's no reason to get upset. Ok, now let's say I make some valid criticisms of show X. Well, if you still like the show despite the flaws being pointed out to you, you just say "Yeah, those are valid criticisms, but I like it despite those flaws." The only kinds of criticisms someone can make are valid or invalid. That's it. So what reason is there to get upset?

In my opinion, if someone gets upset when you criticize things they like, it is because they believe your criticisms. When you criticize the show, you are making them aware of the fact that they are lying to themselves. They have been telling themselves the show is amazing, but deep inside they know you are right. This is why they get upset. Another possibility is that they do like the show, but your comments made them realize they don't know why they like the show. People get upset when they are unable to answer hard questions, such as "Why do you like this?"

When people say something that is insulting and untrue, it can indeed be ignored, but that often encourages the person who said these things to continue to say these things and to expand outwards into new forms of incorrect criticism, which is annoying and frustrating to people who enjoy truthful statements. One could sit down with this person and carefully explain why you believe they are mistaken in their assertion that "your mother is so fat, runners warm up by jogging around her" and they could of course accept parts of your explanation while asking for further clarification in other areas. This requires a lot of cooperation on their part, however, and unless you are a fan of this sort of thing, it is about as fun as giving a cat an enema. Thus, many people are tempted to show their displeasure and offer correction in a simple and precise way, like breaking a nose, which encourages careful future word selection, the asking of questions rather than the making of statements, and expresses their disagreement in an obvious manner.

It's understandable, if not condonable.

Apreche

jcc, the solution to your problem is to just not worry about those people. Say someone comes up to you, and says something very ignorant. You can either let them be, or you can try to correct them. Personally, I try to help them, but the minute it no longer becomes enjoyable for myself, I quit. It's not worth it.

jcc

jcc, the solution to your problem is to just not worry about those people. Say someone comes up to you, and says something very ignorant. You can either let them be, or you can try to correct them. Personally, I try to help them, but the minute it no longer becomes enjoyable for myself, I quit. It's not worth it.

A valid and respectable viewpoint.

HungryJoe

It's not just shows. If you insult anything they like, they will take it as a personal insult. I knew a guy once who would often say "Don't make fun of people's stuff!" Screw that I say. If we're going to criticize anything in this world, it should definitely be things, especially works of art like shows. Art is created with the expectation it will receive criticism.

There's a slight difference between teasing someone for a show they like and teasing somone for something they own. If the teasing is directed at, for instance, the action figures a person owns, I say tease away. But, if you start teasing someone because they drive a piece of crap car, that can easily cross over the line of not being okay.

Apreche

But, if you start teasing someone because they drive a piece of crap car, that can easily cross over the line of not being okay.

There is a difference between saying "Your car is a piece of shit." and "Ha, ha! You have a shitty car!" In the former, the insult is directed at the car. The person will probably say "Yeah, this old hunk of junk." In the second, you are insulting not the car, but the person's ownership of the car. There is a difference.

Just one more example for good measure. Let's say someone buys GTAIV. If I say "GTA sucks." that is not the same as saying "Wow dude, you bought GTA?"

gomidog

But the thing is, you often talk like "I can't respect anyone who likes (insert name of thing)" which makes one assume that you DO indeed link lack of respect for a piece of entertainment and lack of respect for the person themselves. It is in the way you talk about things sometimes implies that someone is "dumb" for liking something.

HungryJoe

But, if you start teasing someone because they drive a piece of crap car, that can easily cross over the line of not being okay.

There is a difference between saying "Your car is a piece of shit." and "Ha, ha! You have a shitty car!" In the former, the insult is directed at the car. The person will probably say "Yeah, this old hunk of junk." In the second, you are insulting not the car, but the person's ownership of the car. There is a difference.

Just one more example for good measure. Let's say someone buys GTAIV. If I say "GTA sucks." that is not the same as saying "Wow dude, you bought GTA?"

True, but look at what I said. Then look at how closely the language of your examples resemble each other. There's a difference, sure, but it would be pretty easy to say one thing when you meant the other. It's easy, as I said, to cross the line and not be okay.

Buying GTAIV and then getting hosed for it is nowhere near as bad as buying a '74 Plymouth Duster because you can't afford anything better and then getting hosed for it.

Apreche

I said they were different. I didn't say one was wrong and the other was right.

kage_rod

But the thing is, you often talk like "I can't respect anyone who likes (insert name of thing)" which makes one assume that you DO indeed link lack of respect for a piece of entertainment and lack of respect for the person themselves. It is in the way you talk about things sometimes implies that someone is "dumb" for liking something.

I have to agree with Gomi here. You guys do pull an uber "I'm right" thing... which kinda makes me wonder how the hell you got all your fans. XD;

@the situation at hand: I just think people need thicker skins, and some others should bite their tongue more often.