I think Eva was the only show that GN really recommended but I didn't find all that great. I found it to be ok, but I did really like the last two episodes. I thought those were brilliant.
Edit: Oh, did you mean the majority of metal instead of the majority of that song?
Majority of metal, sorry about that. The song is free of screaming yes (iirc).
The majority of metal is not screeching and screaming. Specific sub-genres use it, but most metal is pretty much clean vocals.
Of course, you might be listening to metalcore; if that's the case, stop what you're doing and find good bands.
If it's the screaming/growling that bothers you, I can suggest a bunch of bands with clean vocals that are totally badass. If you like Dragonforce (they're not really that good), you'll like all kinds of other power and/or progressive metal. Check out Blind Guardian, Hammerfall, Gamma Ray, Iron Maiden, Iced Earth, Jag Panzer, Nevermore, Kamelot...
Weeaboo started on 4chan as a wordfilter to try to stop people from using the word "wapanese". Instead, it replaced the word. It can mean everything from an overly exuberant fan of anime all the way to anyone who likes anime in any way, shape, or form. It's a stupid thing, but something that's been ingrained into my (and a lot of people's) heads.
El Hazard. Yes, I got the right one. I DID like Jinnai and the Bugrom but they weren't enough to excuse the rest of the show. I'm guessing Rym and Scott were swayed by the power of nostalgia and their imperfect human memories on this one.
Of course, if anyone is still curious and lives in Australia they could buy it off me. Boxset of R4 DVDs, both OVAs, good condition. ;D
Music-wise, I haven't listened to a lot of metal, but I'm starting to get into it. I guess I'm somewhat lackluster about Watchmen, but I've barely read any of it yet. Same for Utena (I've watched perhaps 3 episodes, but the fight song is already ingrained in my head. Oh mans. )
From a dramatic storytelling point of view though, or regarding discourse of a philosophical concept, this series has no merits.
I cannot express how much I disagree with you on this. One of the shows greatest strengths is that it's character-driven, the setting being just an interesting backdrop and nothing more.
Also, I believe you meant "empathize, not "emphasize."
I stand corrected. However, character driven != good or thought provoking plot. I also would really like to hear a "final thoughts" kind of discussion on why you think this show has especially strong characters. I found there to be little to no character development; The show may have intricate character design, but they only interact in a simple one dimensional way which never changes. I guess the best way to put my complaint is that the show is static. Each episode returns to the status quo at the end, and the few meta episodes play out a generic, fairly deterministic, plot in which you really only have a good understanding of one of the characters.
Did you listen to the GeekNights episode about Cowboy Bebop? I recall Scott saying (paraphrased): Cowboy Bebop fucks those people who love their stories to have gargantuan universes. Are you one of that kind?
Not at all. I just like my TV series to either have a good and interesting meta plot, or, in the case of episodic shows, to have varied plots.
Anime. Sorry, but it sucks. And yes, I've tried several genres.
Do you hate all animation? If Anime=Animation Produced in Japan it seems to me like you are painting with a rather broad brush. If indeed you hate the art form (which, in my opinion, is like saying you hate oil paintings), could you tell me why? As an animator, I'd be curious to hear what your reasoning is.
First, let me admit up front that I'm generalizing. I know that's a flaw in my argument.
What I can't stand is cheap animation. Almost all of the anime that airs on Japanese TV is painful for me to watch due to its low budget. Animation ought to be able to capture emotion, and cheap animation misses all sorts of nuances that are necessary to convey emotion. It becomes exaggerated and irritating. All subtlety is lost.
As for the big budget productions, I find the stories to be just plain awful. Spirited Away might be the single worst story ever written for a movie. While the underlying theme might have had potential, the character development was absolutely atrocious. If you don't believe the main characters, then the rest of the movie won't matter. I found Chihiro to be so unlike a real 10 year old girl, that the movie became genuinely laughable.
Like it or not, anime competes with live-action productions. So if I find that 99.9% of the time, more emotion is conveyed by live actors versus cheap animation, then I'll stick with live-action. The same story can be told in either medium.
I did enjoy Ghost in the Shell. It had a good story, and good animation. So I guess there are a couple of exceptions to my general statement. The problem for me is that the exceptions are few and far between.
What I can't stand is cheap animation. Almost all of the anime that airs on Japanese TV is painful for me to watch due to its low budget. Animation ought to be able to capture emotion, and cheap animation misses all sorts of nuances that are necessary to convey emotion. It becomes exaggerated and irritating. All subtlety is lost.
Agree, 100%
Spirited Away might be the single worst story ever written for a movie.
Disgree, 100%
The same story can be told in either medium.
Not necessarily. There are some things that can only be expressed using animation. The reason I am drawn to the medium is that using animation (either 2D or 3D special effects) you can create things that never could exist in reality. It's the closest thing to bringing daydreams into the real world that I've ever come across. Actually, Satoshi Kon is often asked why he chooses to work in animation rather than live action, as his stories tend to take place in a realistic setting and his character designs are not as stylized as most. Look at the lush color palate of Tokyo Godfathers, and the amazingly creative transitions in Millennium Actress, not to mention the trippy dream sequences of Paprika. None of these things could be pulled off well with live action, and they add quite a bit to each film. And I would argue that animation (not just Japanese, but any animation in general) can express emotion very strongly, but does so in different, more stylized ways than that which is conveyed by real people. Animated characters have made me cry time and time again, their voices and gesture painting an abstract picture of a complex emotion. To over simplify, look at this ----> (^_^). It doesn't look like a person at all, but somehow, you know that it is content and happy. Now imagine this character has a personality and expresses a full range of emotions in reaction to events in its story. Could you empathize, if its story was something you could relate to?
That said, most animation, like most movies is cruddy and bad and cheap. It lacks in creativity and artistic value, and so on, and so forth. Also, the stories that benefit most by being told through animation tend to be of the fantastical sort. Those looking for real world drama without magic, crazy technology, or the stuff of dreams, maybe most animation will not be for you. I, on the other hand, adore the possibilities inherent in the medium.
There are people who say that live action is actually a subset of animation. You're simply producing the film from a series of photographs of objects and people instead of photographs of drawings.
Also, Kilarney, have you watched any of Satoshi Kon's works?
There are some things that can only be expressed using animation.
With CCG and other technologies, is that really true? (Leaving out the argument that CCG is animation. For my point, consider it to be animation that is intended to be imperceptible from the real thing.)
. To over simplify, look at this ----> (^_^). It doesn't look like a person at all, but somehow, you know that it is content and happy. Now imagine this character has a personality and expresses a full range of emotions in reaction to events in its story. Could you empathize, if its story was something you could relate to?
The problem is that, visually, that character can't express the same level of emotion that a live (or well animated) character can. The story may be great, but there will always be a disconnect between what the story and the character are able to convey. I think the trick is to find a story that benefits from having that character. Maybe a story where it's important that the character does NOT convey too much emotion. Now that's art, and that's good. 99% of anime is not that sophisticated.
That said, most animation, like most movies is cruddy and bad and cheap.
That really was the main problem that I had. I liked Ghost in the Shell. However, I found even Neon Genesis Evangelion to have painfully cheap animation. I just can't sit through that stuff.
There are people who say that live action is actually a subset of animation. You're simply producing the film from a series of photographs of objects and people instead of photographs of drawings.
That's a little silly. It's kind of like saying taking a photograph is the same thing as drawing something. Sure, they are both kinds of art, but the process and the result is entirely different. So, live action and animation are both "moving images" but I think that quote misses the point. Animation is to "bring to life" something that does not exist, where as in live action you are capturing existing movement. But you know that already. Heehee.
I already talked about computer animation and special effects. Your arguments against animation are essentially like saying, "Since drawing something is going to be fundamentally different from the original scene, why not just take a photograph?" Stylization and Artistic Representation cause some things to be lost, but in discarding these details you can gain other types of strengths.
The problem is that, visually, that character can't express the same level of emotion that a live (or well animated) character can. The story may be great, but there will always be a disconnect between what the story and the character are able to convey. I think the trick is to find a story thatbenefitsfrom having that character. Maybe a story where it's important that the character does NOT convey too much emotion. Now that's art, and that's good. 99% of anime is not that sophisticated.
I think you are missing my point. Cartoon characters are like metaphors, expressing human emotions in a way both like and unlike humans. Maybe it's just your fusiform gyrus doesn't get it like mine does.
There are people who say that live action is actually a subset of animation. You're simply producing the film from a series of photographs of objects and people instead of photographs of drawings.
That's a little silly. It's kind of like saying taking a photograph is the same thing as drawing something. Sure, they are both kinds of art, but the process and the result is entirely different. So, live action and animation are both "moving images" but I think that quote misses the point. Animation is to "bring to life" something that does not exist, where as in live action you are capturing existing movement. But you know that already. Heehee.
I don't agree with it. It's something I heard from a pretentious animation student at RIT.
Stylization and Artistic Representation cause some things to be lost, but in discarding these details you can gain other types of strengths.
I absolutely agree with that. I definitely did not make myself clear, and got bogged down in a position that was more absolute than even I felt.
My point is that to accomplish that, you need good animation. Budget isn't dis positive, although it certainly can open up tools for the animator. Maybe I should have said that I find the "art" of 99% of Japanese animation to be horrendous.
Of course I don't watch The Simpsons are Futurama either. So it isn't just a Japanese phenomenon.
I think kilarney has a good argument, or at the least a self-consistent position. Low budgets do tend to result in poor animation quality, and quite a lot of anime is indeed low-budget.
However, by the same token, would you only watch the newest of the new in all video media simply because of improvement in modern techniques? Are you not able to appreciate many older works despite the limitations under which they were created? Surely you agree that there are many cases where a visual work has succeeded despite limitations on the ability to create; why can't this apply to anime?
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Edit: Oh, did you mean the majority of metal instead of the majority of that song?
Of course, you might be listening to metalcore; if that's the case, stop what you're doing and find good bands.
If it's the screaming/growling that bothers you, I can suggest a bunch of bands with clean vocals that are totally badass. If you like Dragonforce (they're not really that good), you'll like all kinds of other power and/or progressive metal. Check out Blind Guardian, Hammerfall, Gamma Ray, Iron Maiden, Iced Earth, Jag Panzer, Nevermore, Kamelot...
There are a lot.
Honestly I think it's pretty fucking stupid, and don't see the connections...but whatever.
Of course, if anyone is still curious and lives in Australia they could buy it off me. Boxset of R4 DVDs, both OVAs, good condition. ;D
Music-wise, I haven't listened to a lot of metal, but I'm starting to get into it. I guess I'm somewhat lackluster about Watchmen, but I've barely read any of it yet. Same for Utena (I've watched perhaps 3 episodes, but the fight song is already ingrained in my head. Oh mans. )
First, let me admit up front that I'm generalizing. I know that's a flaw in my argument.
What I can't stand is cheap animation. Almost all of the anime that airs on Japanese TV is painful for me to watch due to its low budget. Animation ought to be able to capture emotion, and cheap animation misses all sorts of nuances that are necessary to convey emotion. It becomes exaggerated and irritating. All subtlety is lost.
As for the big budget productions, I find the stories to be just plain awful. Spirited Away might be the single worst story ever written for a movie. While the underlying theme might have had potential, the character development was absolutely atrocious. If you don't believe the main characters, then the rest of the movie won't matter. I found Chihiro to be so unlike a real 10 year old girl, that the movie became genuinely laughable.
Like it or not, anime competes with live-action productions. So if I find that 99.9% of the time, more emotion is conveyed by live actors versus cheap animation, then I'll stick with live-action. The same story can be told in either medium.
I did enjoy Ghost in the Shell. It had a good story, and good animation. So I guess there are a couple of exceptions to my general statement. The problem for me is that the exceptions are few and far between.
That said, most animation, like most movies is cruddy and bad and cheap. It lacks in creativity and artistic value, and so on, and so forth. Also, the stories that benefit most by being told through animation tend to be of the fantastical sort. Those looking for real world drama without magic, crazy technology, or the stuff of dreams, maybe most animation will not be for you. I, on the other hand, adore the possibilities inherent in the medium.
Also, Kilarney, have you watched any of Satoshi Kon's works?
My point is that to accomplish that, you need good animation. Budget isn't dis positive, although it certainly can open up tools for the animator. Maybe I should have said that I find the "art" of 99% of Japanese animation to be horrendous.
Of course I don't watch The Simpsons are Futurama either. So it isn't just a Japanese phenomenon.
Low budgets do tend to result in poor animation quality, and quite a lot of anime is indeed low-budget.
However, by the same token, would you only watch the newest of the new in all video media simply because of improvement in modern techniques? Are you not able to appreciate many older works despite the limitations under which they were created?
Surely you agree that there are many cases where a visual work has succeeded despite limitations on the ability to create; why can't this apply to anime?