Is algae the solution to our fuel problems?

Kiey

It seems that a company has come up with a way, in a closed system, to have algae produce vegetable oil. But not only that, apparently they can also create different strains of algae to produce oils that can be used for diesel fuels or even rocket fuels. Could this be the solution to our fuel problems?

Movie on their site of CEO explaining how it works.

Andrew

Nuclear and Solar for the power grid. For cars, I'm guess it will be some sort of amalgamation of electrical sources.

Omnutia

The main problem is batteries, electric is fine for around town but unless solar panel or electric motor engine efficiency improves the amount of energy that can be stored is going to be the limiting factor.
There was that cool article a while ago about the man who fitted a jet turbine into a car and used it to charge the batteries.

Apreche

The main problem is batteries, electric is fine for around town but unless solar panel or electric motor engine efficiency improves the amount of energy that can be stored is going to be the limiting factor.
There was that cool article a while ago about the man who fitted a jet turbine into a car and used it to charge the batteries.

There's an additional problem on top of that. Ok, let's say you have a battery that will allow you to store and use enough power to drive 5000 miles. You fill those batteries with solar panels. Alright. How much energy did it take to make the battery itself? Did you use oil to make the plastic the battery is made of? How much energy is used by the chemical plant that makes the acid in the battery? Where does that chemical plant get the energy from? How about the factory that makes the solar panels?

You see where I'm going with this. People often only look at the end of the line of energy usage. They see a car using ethanol instead of gas, but they forget about the big nasty factory that turns corn into ethanol. You see people buy a car that charges up from the power grid, but they ignore the oil burning power plant that makes that run. They also forget about the energy that was used in the electrical car factory, all the factories that made parts for the electric car, and the energy used to ship those electric car parts to and from the various factories.

You have to change the whole system, not just the part of the system that happens to be close to home.

HMTKSteve

If I wanted a vehicle that ran on plant-based fuel I'd buy a horse.

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If I wanted a vehicle that ran on plant-based fuel I'd buy a horse.

Problem: Maintenance. Cleaning a horse's hooves weekly. Cleaning up his waste. Needing a stable and a field. Lower top speed. Limited stamina. Needs more 'fuel'. Is not a vehicle.

Biodiesels are very nice alternatives to the current fuels we have. Perhaps a very suitable step between now and full on solar power or something.

Kate Monster

Biodiesels are very nice alternatives to the current fuels we have. Perhaps a very suitable step between now and full on solar power or something.

Besides the fact that producing them utilizes more oil than it is worth, and uses more carbon based on that fact... yeah the concept is fine. Once bio-diesel is readily available, and most cars, trucks, farm equipment, etc. switch to bio-diesel, then the oil problem will take care of itself.

Andrew

Biodiesels are very nice alternatives to the current fuels we have. Perhaps a very suitable step between now and full on solar power or something.

Biofuels are teh suck. The amount of space required to meet the ethanol needs of a country the size of the United States is insane. Not to mention the costs and energy it costs just to handle it's processing and refining. Also, if we use all the corn, what will happen to the corn we eat? We won't have any room for farm land. Like Scott said, most people don't think all the way through.

Kate Monster

Biofuels are teh suck. The amount of space required to meet the ethanol needs of a country the size of the United States is insane. Not to mention the costs and energy it costs just to handle it's processing and refining. Also, if we use all the corn, what will happen to the corn we eat? We won't have any room for farm land. Like Scott said, most people don't think all the way through.

The corn that is used to generate bio-fuels, thus far, has not effected the corn supply that feeds cows or humans. There are also many, many other sources for bio-fuels, including waste-oil. I am not saying it is the only solution, nor the best solution, but it is feasible.

Andrew

The corn that is used to generate bio-fuels, thus far, has not effected the corn supply that feeds cows or humans.

Do you even do any basic reserach?

Kate Monster

The corn that is used to generate bio-fuels, thus far, has not effected the corn supply that feeds cows or humans.

Do you even do anybasic reserach?

Last wee on NPR they did an in-depth story on bio-fuels and they experts interviewed in the piece went beyond discussing the AMOUNT of corn used for bio-fuels (which is listed everywhere on the internet, just do a Google search as I can't at the moment) and they went into how much corn was actually produced for human and animal consumption in previous 5 years, and detailed that a very small percentage of that had been allotted for bio-fuel. Most of the corn produced to make bio-fuel, according to this report, came from corn that was allotted for other industrial purposes or was "new" corn that was utilizing land that farmers had been subsidized for years not to grow anything in.
I am still not saying that bio-fuels are the best way to go, and I am certainly not saying that corn is the best source for bio fuel (sorghum is promising). I am just saying that it is NOT the major cause for the current food crisis. It is a contributing factor, but transportation costs and certain genetic engineering (not all genetic engineering) combined with distribution and environmental issues are much bigger fish to fry in tackling the food crisis.

HMTKSteve

Nuclear is best.

I'm still waiting for my "Mr. Fusion"

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Andrew, read the second sentence of that quote again. A step between the current state of the fuel industry, and the next one. So what if the average American only gains half a pound each week instead of one pound? If that means we get a few more years out of our current raw oil supplies, why not do it?

EDIT:

Nuclear is best.

WRONG. Nuclear waste is very hard to get rid off. Solar, wind and water power are best. Especially once solar panels become more efficient and cheaper.

Andrew

Andrew, read the second sentence of that quote again. A step between the current state of the fuel industry, and the next one. So what if the average American only gains half a pound each week instead of one pound? If that means we get a few more years out of our current raw oil supplies, why not do it?

It just seems to me that taking baby steps is not enough. We've had stable nuclear power for decades, but it's only because of a lack of education and general fear that has prevented us from moving in such a monumental step. I just see biofuels as a waste of our time. It doesn't solve the problem, just delay it.

HMTKSteve

WRONG. Nuclear waste is very hard to get rid off. Solar, wind and water power are best. Especially once solar panels become more efficient and cheaper.

Nuclear waste is a misnomer. There is still energy in that "spent" fuel, we just lack the technology to extract it.

Solar? How big of a land mass do you intend to cover with solar panels?

Wind? What about the birds? What about the view off Nantucket?

Water? What about the people who get flooded upstream and those who have no water downstream? Hydro power is the most ecologically destructive form of energy on the planet unless you find a way to tap existing water supplies without changing the local ecology.

...

Andrew, read the second sentence of that quote again. A step between the current state of the fuel industry, and the next one. So what if the average American only gains half a pound each week instead of one pound? If that means we get a few more years out of our current raw oil supplies, why not do it?

It just seems to me that taking baby steps is not enough. We've had stable nuclear power for decades, but it's only because of a lack of education and general fear that has prevented us from moving in such a monumental step. I just see biofuels as a waste of our time. It doesn't solve the problem, just delay it.

True, nuclear power plants might also be a good temporary solution, I mean, we can't do anything else other than delay the fact that oil supplies are running out. Where you thinking about pumping oil back into the ground? Hehe. Anyways, the downside of nuclear power is the fact that you get nuclear waste, which is still very harmful if not processed properly, and takes numerous generations to decay to a point where it's no longer harmful. Which results in us just shoving the after effects of our alternatives onto the following generations.

The best solution would be that we all started using solar and wind power exclusively from this day on, but that's impossible due to the technology not being good enough yet. Hence I say using an alternative as biodiesel, which is 'easily' renewable to some extent, looks to be the best temporary solution in my eyes. Unless you know of an amazing energy technology I have not yet heard off.

Andrew

True, nuclear power plants might also be a good temporary solution, I mean, we can't do anything else other than delay the fact that oil supplies are running out. Where you thinking about pumping oil back into the ground? Hehe. Anyways, the downside of nuclear power is the fact that you get nuclear waste, which is still very harmful if not processed properly, and takes numerous generations to decay to a point where it's no longer harmful. Which results in us just shoving the after effects of our alternatives onto the following generations.

The dangers of nuclear waste are vastly spun out of proportion. This is a chapter out of a fully researched book written by Bernard Cohen, Professor Emeritus of Physics at the University of Pittsburgh.

Kilarney

WRONG. Nuclear waste is very hard to get rid off.

Nuclear waste is not a problem. We just don't have the political will to dispose of it in an appropriate manner. Yucca Mountain is waiting.

As for oil, let's make one thing clear. There is plenty of oil. The problem is that there is not plenty of cheap oil. Nonetheless, if we're willing to pay for it, we have enough oil to last us for at least a couple hundred years.

Kate Monster

Wind? What about the birds? What about the view off Nantucket?

They can be placed to minimize the effect on bird migration. As for the view, I think they look just fine, and I would always prefer an energy source to be clean and not smog up my air than "spoil a view".

Water? What about the people who get flooded upstream and those who have no water downstream? Hydro power is the most ecologically destructive form of energy on the planet unless you find a way to tap existing water supplies without changing the local ecology.

Please cite your source. Are you aware that Niagara Falls has been providing energy for a large portion of the Northeast without causing flooding issues? Also, since when have you started caring about the environment. Do you work for an oil company? Is that why you are opposed to any alternative energy source. You do realize that there is a finite supply of oil, right? And that means we will have to transition to alternative energy sources eventually, right? So isn't it better to get those systems in place BEFORE there is an issue?

HungryJoe

Do you work for an oil company?

No. He just loves the oil companies. He feels that they are unfairly treated. It's easy to feel sorry for oil companies seeing as they have no voice in Congress and they've been struggling so hard these last few years.

Also, I think that he secretly thinks that, if he defends them long enough, one day they'll share their money with him.

Omnutia

If I wanted a vehicle that ran on plant-based fuel I'd buy a horse.

Problem: Maintenance. Cleaning a horse's hooves weekly. Cleaning up his waste. Needing a stable and a field. Lower top speed. Limited stamina. Needs more 'fuel'. Is not a vehicle.

Biodiesels are very nice alternatives to the current fuels we have. Perhaps a very suitable step between now and full on solar power or something.

That's it, we need lower maintenance horses. Not more efficient cars.

HMTKSteve

Also, I think that he secretly thinks that, if he defends them long enough, one day they'll share their money with him.

They already do because I own stock in them. Just as many government pension plans and retired folks do.

Neito

WRONG. Nuclear waste is very hard to get rid off.

Brian Dunning had a very good episode of Skeptoid about why you're wrong.

Andrew

They already do because I own stock in them. Just as many government pension plans and retired folks do.

My solar stocks are up 20% in the last three days. How do you like them apples?

HMTKSteve

They already do because I own stock in them. Just as many government pension plans and retired folks do.

My solar stocks are up 20% in the last three days. How do you like them apples?

If it helps move your income up into the next tax bracket so you will sympathize with me on taxes then it makes me happy

Andrew

If it helps move your income up into the next tax bracket so you will sympathize with me on taxes then it makes me happy

Roth-IRA. When I withdraw, it will be tax-free.

Kiey

But what about the algae? For an area 1/10th the size of New Mexico it could produce enough oil for the US's fuel needs, and add in the fact that algae consumes CO2, does this not seem like an ideal solution?

HMTKSteve

If it helps move your income up into the next tax bracket so you will sympathize with me on taxes then it makes me happy

Roth-IRA. When I withdraw, it will be tax-free.

Were you thinking that it would anger me that your solar stocks are doing well? The first quarter of this year has been an amazing buyers market for stocks. Apple dipped down to the $120's early this year and it is poised to break $200 very soon. How about them Apples?

Andrew

Were you thinking that it would anger me that your solar stocks are doing well?

No, I've been invested in oil companies as well. I was just saying...
My father, a staunch republican, is seriously considering voting for Obama because if he gets elected, the solar stocks will soar like crazy.

HMTKSteve

Were you thinking that it would anger me that your solar stocks are doing well?

No, I've been invested in oil companies as well. I was just saying...
My father, a staunch republican, is seriously considering voting for Obama because if he gets elected, the solar stocks will soar like crazy.

I don't think the markets like the idea of any single party controlling all of the government. If Obama wins and the Congress goes solidly Democrat (which it likely will) they will have the 60 votes to pass anything in the Senate. Investors like gridlock between the parties because it insures things do not move too fast.

Kilarney

But what about the algae? For an area 1/10th the size of New Mexico it could produce enough oil for the US's fuel needs, and add in the fact that algae consumes CO2, does this not seem like an ideal solution?

First, good luck finding an area with 1/10 the size of New Mexico that we can develop quickly. That's not exactly a small piece of real estate. Secondly, don't take a promotional video at face value. If algae were profitable, then this company would be building plants. I'm sure the video dealt more with potential than today's reality.

Nonetheless, I think our government really needs to invest in alternative energy research. I hope projects such as this prove to be successful.