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Time Warner Cable testing metered Internet. End of the world?

edited June 2008 in Technology
Is it TEOTWAWKI (The end of the world as we know it)?

Time Warner Cable testing metered Internet

Something not mentioned in the article is that the caps are 5GB, 15GB and 40GB per month, depending on the tier.
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Comments

  • edited June 2008
    It's not, because most people won't really care.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • Something not mentioned in the article is that the caps are 5GB, 15GB and 40GB per month, depending on the tier.
    That being download only caps? Or download + upload caps?
  • No, especially for this reason: "Five percent of our users use over 50 percent of our bandwidth".

    Thus, as Tyashki said, [more or less] no one will notice or care. That 5%'s gonna care, but the other 95% likely won't.
  • Until about 8 months ago I was bound by a 4,5 GB download limit. In this day and age, this is just completely insufficient. I'm so happy that I have now unlimited access.
  • Perhaps the ISPs should stop marketing the services as unlimited?

    I don't know all of the regulations involved on the cable side of things but in the phone company we can't arbitrarily change your service. We can stop new people from signing up under old offers but unless you change your service you stay grandfathered in under the terms you signed up with.

    This can be a very big headache when you have an old calling plan that only 20 people use but you have to keep it on the books and in the system until those 20 people change.

    Right now we have a grandfathered deal where if you belong to a particular 10 year old calling plan you get 7 hours of free dial-up Internet access. My DSL is a grandfathered plan that gives me a 1.5/256 for only $14.99 a month. I would like a higher upload speed and I could convert up to a 3/512 plan but it would bump my bill up to about $50 a month.
  • I would like a higher upload speed and I could convert up to a 3/512 plan but it would bump my bill up to about $50 a month.
    That's really shitty. We pay $50 a month for cable Internet, and we get at least 8/2.
  • Near San Francisco, CA we pay about $35 for 6/2.
  • I live in the Beaumont, TX area where this "experiment" is going on. Our Roadrunner bill is usually $50, but this past month was $125 because we went 75gigs over our limit. I was so pissed when I saw this that I called to cancel and switch to our only other choice AT&T DSL where you get 80gigs for $35 per month. It's annoying that they have a limit as well because I'd prefer to just not have to worry about it at all.
  • Over here, it used to be that for 30 euros you would get a limit of 30 gigs at a speed of 256kB. The upload was pathetically slow, at something like 16kB. I've since changed to another lesser known ISP where I have unlimited at 512kB but upload is still pathetically slow. Also, it seems like the bandwidth has been upped to 512 on the first ISP(which is one of the biggest in the country), and the cap has been raised to 60 gigs.
  • I'm under Carphone Warehouse over here and there's a 60gb limit that's only mentioned in the contract and that works for me.
  • Are those caps on the upstream, downstream, both combined or what?
  • edited January 2009
    1.5/256
    8/2.
    6/2.
    Sorry for this being a noob question, but what do those numbers mean? I can understand 256 and 512 being for bandwidth...but what about the others?
    Post edited by Dkong on
  • Sorry for this being a noob question, but what do those numbers mean? I can understand 256 and 512 being for bandwidth...but what about the others?
    Speeds in megabit. 6/2 means 6Mbit downstream and 2Mbit upstream. 8/2 would be 8Mbit down and 2Mbit up.
  • Are those caps on the upstream, downstream, both combined or what?
    The contract says down.
  • edited April 2009
    From the Fail of Your Day thread:
    Time Warner Cable is dumb
    TWC is indeed introducing tiered pricing. It's time for more discussion on metered Internet.

    Personally, I'll say this:
    Metered Internet is realistic. TWC's pricing/caps are not.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Yeah I definitely think that moving to a tiered or metered system is how its going to have to go, but TWC is definitely setting the limits way too low.
  • I asked this in the Fail of Your Day Thread and didn't get a response.
    Time Warner Cable is dumb
    My Mom lives near Rochester and has Time Warner. She is a bit confused about what this new fee structure will mean for her. How can she calculate what she actually uses?
    She wants to know about how much she uses including stuff she streams before they change the fee structure so she can pick the correct cap. Any ideas?
  • She wants to know about how much she uses including stuff she streams before they change the fee structure so she can pick the correct cap. Any ideas?
    Is it perhaps possible to call Time Warner and ask what her average monthly bandwidth usage is? If not you'll have to start counting bytes, which is too much of a hassle. It's probably just their marketing department thinking that if they don't give out complete information there will be people who upgrade to a cap that is way too high for them, and others who'll take a cap that's too low, hence giving them huge extra costs for going over the cap.
  • edited April 2009
    She wants to know about how much she uses including stuff she streams before they change the fee structure so she can pick the correct cap. Any ideas?
    It's quite difficult for the average user to monitor their download usage. Here's a couple of options:

    1) If we're told the things she typically uses the Internet for, and perhaps how much she does them, we could come up with a reasonable estimate
    2) Software exists that can achieve this, but I can't vouch for any in particular. Googling brought up this, but I can't speak for it re. lack of viruses, etc. Users on various forums don't seem to have had trouble with it, though.
    I must note that this approach will only work for a single computer. With multiple computers, you could try to run the program on each, but then LAN communication would also be counted. In that case, it's better to set up monitoring at the router, which could be difficult for your mother.

    Ideally, after the switch, Time Warner will provide some kind of data feed as to how much you've used according to the meters on their side, which is what really matters. Just about every ISP in Australia does this, and I personally have a Firefox extension showing my quota usage (it's set up only for Australian ISPs, though).
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Man, that's sucks.

    These kinds of caps I don't understand, because as speeds rise, so will your cap. Best to vote with your feet and change ISP if possible.

    I don't do much downloading in the grand scheme of things. With TV eps, films etc at a standard size for good quality, and when services speed up (we know have 50mb lines via Virgin Media U.K), my downloading is actually smaller to them, and not done at any peak times of use either. Only other thing my 20mb line is for, is awesome 360 gaming online.

    Makes me glad Time Warner don't have control over here.
  • edited April 2009
    TPG's pricing.
    For reference, this is probably the most competitive pricing in Australia (Pick "No Mobile" from the radio buttons).
    Also for reference, Google says that, currently, 1 Australian dollar = 0.7167 U.S. dollars
    (it's easy to convert things in Google. For example, put "60 aud in usd" in)

    Also, our ISPs here mostly throttle rather than charge for excess data (though some do). Quite notably, what TWC is offering is terrible even compared to Australian pricing.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • What is the point of getting cable internet if I can't use it to stream and download? Seriously, I might as well have dial-up. This is such a rediculous move on their part.
    I currently have Time Warner Cable TV and Internet. My Mom uses Time Warner for TV, Internet, and Phone service. I am writing to them to say that if they do not drastically raise their caps, then I will cancel all of their services and use other providers. Perhaps an a petition of people that would do the same would be a good idea. Does anyone know if such a petition exists?
  • edited April 2009
    Here is really what doesn't make much sense to me with TWC. The top seems like its going to be 40 GB, at about $50 a month. Now on all the tiers for every GB you go over you pay $1, thus its actually cheaper to have their internet, but no plan at all and pay a $50 over use for 50 GB then to sign up for the 40 GB tier.

    And a petition should exist, but what really needs to exist is an anti-trust/price gouging charge that should be brought against them for this sort of thing.
    Post edited by Kiey on
  • A dollar per gigabyte? Maybe for 3G, maybe.
  • edited April 2009
    A dollar per gigabyte? Maybe for 3G, maybe.
    I would be all over that.

    TW is about to lose major subscribers in areas with competition, especially when in some areas Comcast isn't measuring (like mine) and when AT&T; doesn't meter nationwide. Those prices are insane. Also, what is going to happen with Netflix Instant users buying TW service?
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • edited April 2009
    From the Hulu thread:
    With some of the cable companies now metering Internet usage (which is dumb and will limit how much streaming content - particularly HD content - any user can access)
    It seems the discussion on metered internet was essentially incomplete. Metered Internet usage isn't dumb, it's necessary. "Unlimited" Internet is something the cable companies are actually incapable of providing to all of their users. They can't provide maximum bandwidth to 100% of users 100% of the time. Consider this: if you used a 20Mbit/s connection 24/7 at full capacity, you would use 6328GB per month. Mind you, this means that there already is a "limit" as to how much streaming content any user can access - bandwidth * time. However, do you really think cable companies can handle that amount?

    Historically, this hasn't been a problem because typical users would only use perhaps a couple of GB of the thousands - less than 0.1% of what the cable companies were promising. These days, a typical user's usage is increasing significantly due to things like streaming media, and so it is becoming very quickly apparent that the previous model simply didn't work. Not only that, but it simply wasn't fair. The users who were downloading 1GB a month were subsidizing those who downloaded hundreds of GB per month.

    There are two main ways to resolve the discrepancy between what your ISPs have been promising and what they are actually capable of supplying:
    1) Limit the maximum bandwidth allowed to each individual person so that even if everyone were using theirs at the same time, it could be handled. This would probably mean that everyone would have less than 1Mbit/s bandwidth.
    2) Limit the total download (bandwidth * time) per month to match what is achievable, while being able to handle peak situations. This could also be done by charging a fixed rate per GB downloaded.

    The way that the second method works is mainly statistical in nature - if total download is limited, or if there is a price per GB, it is far less likely that everyone will be attempting to use their maximum bandwidth at once. Obviously, the second method is preferable. So, let me repeat myself - metered Internet, or at least some alternative, is a necessity. The only issue is that these initial offerings in the U.S. seem unreasonable in terms of price vs. quota.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited April 2009
    Last week, I saw Vint Cerf, "Father of the Internet," speak at RIT. He had a few things to say about this matter, which has been summarized here.
    [...] [I]nstead of using volume caps, he thinks ISPs should introduce transmission caps. These would allow users to purchase access to the Internet at a given minimum data rate, which would be guaranteed even during times of congestion. Subscribers could download or upload data of any size, anytime they want, at the guaranteed rate. When the network isn't congested, like in the middle of the night, users could get faster speeds. But during times of congestion, the broadband pipe would be limited to the minimum guaranteed rate.
    He's right. The scarce commodity is not total bandwidth used, but the amount of bandwidth used at any given time.
    Post edited by trogdor9 on
  • edited April 2009
    The scarce commodity is not total bandwidth used, but the amount of bandwidth used at any given time.
    "Total bandwidth" isn't a very appropriate term for what you were trying to say (bandwidth = data/time) - total data transferred is better. At the core, it is indeed bandwidth that is limited. However, because bandwidth is limited, the total data transferred over a certain period of time is also limited, so it still makes some sense to limit downloads.

    However, Vint has a point. As far as resolving the main issue of the ISPs' unrealistic offerings is concerned, it's a fairly balanced alternative to offer a minimum bandwidth rather than the typical maximum. That way some users can pay more if they need a greater guaranteed minimum. People will be shocked by how low the minimum is, but even at peak times they will probably still get significantly more than their minimum anyway. I'm still considering whether it would be reasonable that during off-peak times some people would get a lot of bandwidth, subsidized by people paying for peak times.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited April 2009
    TW is doing this because they don't want you watching TV over the internet. Think about what comprises the bulk of TW's business.... It's not internet. They are petrified of things like Hulu and Netflix.

    That's why their cap is so much lower than AT&T's. They think that internet should be for email and web surfing and they are trying to control your behavior.

    Reasonable fees for bandwidth are fine. This, however, is something much different.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • Statement from Landel Hobbs, Chief Operating Officer, Time Warner
    Cable RE: Consumption based billing trials
    4-9-09

    Some recent press reports about our four consumption based billing
    trials planned for later this year were premature and did not tell the
    full story. With that said, we realize our communication to customers
    about these trials has been inadequate and we apologize for any
    frustration we caused. WeÂ’ve heard the passionate feedback and weÂ’ve
    taken action to address our customersÂ’ concerns.

    With the ever-increasing flood of content on the Internet, bandwidth
    consumption is growing exponentially. ThatÂ’s a good thing; however,
    there are costs associated with this increased Internet usage. Here at
    Time Warner Cable, consumption among our high-speed Internet
    subscribers is increasing by about 40% a year. As a facilities based
    provider, weÂ’ve built a network that must be maintained and upgraded.
    We have increasing variable costs and we have to continue to invest in
    the network itself.

    This is a common problem that all network providers are experiencing
    and must address. Several other providers have instituted consumption
    based billing, including all major network providers in Canada and
    others in the U.K., New Zealand and elsewhere. In the U.S., AT&T; has
    begun two consumption based billing trials and other providers
    including Comcast, Charter and Cox are using varying methods of
    monitoring and managing bandwidth consumption.

    For good reason. Internet demand is rising at a rate that could
    outpace capacity within a few years. According to industry analysts,
    the infrastructure may not be able to accommodate the explosion of
    online content by 2012. This could result in Internet brownouts. It
    will take a lot of money to fix the problem. Rather than raising
    prices on all customers or limiting usage, we think the fairest
    approach is to move to a tiered model in which users pay more if they
    use more.

    If we donÂ’t act, consumersÂ’ Internet experience will suffer. Sitting
    still is not an option. ThatÂ’s why weÂ’re beginning the consumption
    based billing trials. ItÂ’s important to stress that they are trials.
    The feedback weÂ’ve received from our customers has been very helpful.
    WeÂ’ve made changes to the terms in our current and upcoming trial
    markets as follows:

    • To accommodate lighter Internet users and those who need a lower
    priced option, we are introducing a 1 GB per month tier offering
    speeds of 768 KB/128 KB for $15 per month. Overage charges will be $2
    per GB per month. Our usage data show that about 30% of our customers
    use less than 1 GB per month.

    • We are increasing the bandwidth tier sizes included in all existing
    packages in the trial markets to 10, 20, 40 and 60 GB for Road Runner
    Lite, Basic, Standard and Turbo packages, respectively. Package prices
    will remain the same. Overage charges will be $1 per GB per month.

    • We will introduce a 100 GB Road Runner Turbo package for $75 per
    month (offering speeds of 10 MB/1 MB). Overage charges will be $1 per
    GB per month.

    • Overage charges will be capped at $75 per month. That means that for
    $150 per month customers could have virtually unlimited usage at Turbo
    speeds.

    • Once we implement this trial, we will not immediately start billing
    customers for overage. Rather, we will first provide two months of
    usage data. Then we will provide a one-month grace period in which
    overages will be noted on customersÂ’ bills, but they will not be
    charged. So, customers will have an opportunity to assess their usage
    and right-size their service packages before usage charges are
    applied.

    • Trials will begin in Rochester, N.Y., and Greensboro, N.C., in
    August. We will apply what we learn from these two markets when we
    launch trials in San Antonio and Austin, Texas, in October, but we
    will guarantee at least the same level of usage capacity in these
    trials.

    • As we launch DOCSIS 3.0 in the trial markets, we plan to offer a
    50/5 MB speed tier for $99 per month.

    Again, the Internet is dynamic and continually evolves, so our plans
    will evolve as well and arenÂ’t set in stone. We appreciate the
    feedback weÂ’ve received. WeÂ’ll look forward to more dialogue as we
    progress in these trials. You can send your comments and feedback to
    us at realideas@twcable.com.

    Landel Hobbs
    COO
    Time Warner Cable

    For questions, etc:

    Jeff Simmermon
    Director, Digital Communications
    Time Warner Cable
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