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Computer illiterate people / rant

edited July 2008 in Everything Else
First of all, let me say that I know very little about computers. I know far more than my coworkers but far, far, far less than anyone who has any technical training in computers. I don’t know a lot of terminology or understand a lot of technology. Yet, I work with some people that are completely, profoundly computer illiterate.

One person I work with can not get how to save to a disc. She will click ‘save’ on a file and then immediately take the disc out of the drive. She then can not understand why the disc is messed up and her computer is wonky. I’ve tried to explain to her that if the little light by the drive is on, the computer is ‘talking’ to the disc and that it's bad to mess with it until the light goes off. This makes no impression on her and she continues to just pull the disk out of the drive as fast as she can after clicking “save”.

Another woman does not understand that minimizing a browser does not equal closing it. She’ll routinely have 100+ windows open at once. She also doesn’t understand that our email system has an auto-complete function for the address. You just type a few letters of the address and the program figures out which address you want and fills it in. This concept is beyond her. She also thinks her laptop is a very big flash drive. She will come into work, transfer any documents on her laptop to her desktop, work on them on the desktop and then transfer them back to the laptop when she leaves for home. We’ve told her that she can get a docking station for the laptop if she wants to work with a ‘real’ keyboard and a monitor. But no, she wants to use the laptop like a really big flash drive.

Oh but my favorite stupid person is the woman who is completely hopeless. This is someone who could not figure out how to add more paper to a printer. Let me repeat, she could not add paper to a printer. She called me over to her office because I “understand computers” to help her fix her paperless printer! She doesn’t understand how to forward email. She doesn’t understand that you can right click on an icon to unleash all kinds of fun options. She thinks the Norton Anti-virus (that starts automatically when she boots her computer) IS a virus.

Mind you, I work in academia. I work with people who have PhDs. People who are subjectively very intelligent, yet can not understand computers at even a superficial level. They think I am a goddess with computers because I know enough to cajole them into doing what I want them to do. Yet, all I know about computers is what I can figure out on my own and do simple Google searches for. I know the things that they have no excuse for not knowing.

Why? Why can’t otherwise intelligent people play with these machines enough to understand them even slightly? Age is a factor of course. However, I know enough people who grew up without computers that can understand them – and use them - well enough. It’s not 1985 anymore. Computers have been a part of almost all offices for at least ten years at this point. People have enough years of computing behind them that they should be able to do simple, basic things. Computers are not so counter-intuitive that one should not be able to save to a disc. Or add more paper to a printer. Or send an email.

Whew. That turned into a long rant / bitching session.

What are your thoughts/stories about this issue?
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Comments

  • She thinks the Norton Anti-virus (that starts automatically when she boots her computer) IS a virus.
    She seems completely literate to me.
  • She thinks the Norton Anti-virus (that starts automatically when she boots her computer) IS a virus.
    She seems completely literate to me.
    Oh, except, you know, the "ANTI" part.
    They think I am a goddess with computers because I know enough to cajole them into doing what I want them to do. Yet, all I know about computers is what I can figure out on my own and do simple Google searches for. I know the things that they have no excuse for not knowing.
    The main thing here is that you know how to learn and they don't. You have basic problem solving skills and know that "Okay, I want to do X but I don't know how. How do I learn to do X? Well, I can see if anyone else knows how to do X by using Google."

    There is an old saying that says that you can't add more water to a full cup. You have to empty the cup a little. Those peoples cups are full, but not because they can't learn anymore, they just put a plate on top of the cup. That plate represents their unwillingness to learn.
  • I never really get mad at people like that. 10 years ago I was a n00b like that as well. I also had to show people at my old office to do some things but it never bothered me. I'm not super techie either but no one gave me a hard time when trying to show them something.

    Eh. Maybe I'm lucky. :P
  • She thinks the Norton Anti-virus (that starts automatically when she boots her computer) IS a virus.
    She seems completely literate to me.
    I would not go that far. I would say, she's unknowingly in the know. Though I doubt the definition of 'virus' she is using for it is not the same as the definition used (for NA-V) by those who do know.
    This makes no impression on her and she continues to just pull the disk out of the drive as fast as she can after clicking “save”.
    What kind of disk are we talking about here? A floppy disk? CD-RW? Hot-swap hard drives? :D
    Another woman does not understand that minimizing a browser does not equal closing it.
    She also thinks her laptop is a very big flash drive.
    But no, she wants to use the laptop like a really big flash drive.
    I think I like this one the most. What did you say when you told her about a docking station?
    [S]he could not add paper to a printer.
    . . .
    You know, in her defence, those big office printers sometimes take a minute or two to figure out. As in what paper goes in which tray. But other than that... *ahum*
    What are your thoughts/stories about this issue?
    It will at least take one more generation before the majority of humankind is capable of using a computer, and other hardware alongside, at a basic level. At least, that's what I think, I hope sooner of course.
  • I don't think I remember ever learning how to work a computer. My parents definitely didn't teach me, so maybe I learned it at school. All I know is that I've always known how to use one. Its kind of interesting to think about.

    I find it funny that years ago my dad used to work on computers all day doing accounting type stuff in a cubicle. Yet today he claims that he doesn't even know how to get on the internet on our computer at home. Every time he mentions it (like I need to hear it more than once for some reason) I say, "All you do is double click the little fox and the window will pop up." And he just stares at me like "Whaaa? I don't get it, where do I put in the password?" Sigh... silly old people.
  • A few months back I was talking to a girl at my school and she said that her computer was performing slowly and that it said that she needed to "install a new version of the Internet." After a few moments of bewilderment I realised that she meant Internet explorer.

    Another time, in the 7th grade, my science told us not to use one of the computers because it was broken. After a month or to someone looked under it and found out that it wasn't plugged in! people need to check these things!

    One last thing. Whoever designed my school's layout must be very computer illiterate because the servers are in the shop class storage room. They are covered in wood dust and are surrounded by wood and kindling. It's literally a fire waiting to happen.
  • What's the point of a rant like this? Are you asking for advice on how to show them how to do the things they're having trouble with? Is it just a case of "Haha! Despite admittedly being only barely computer literate, at least I know people more ignorant than me"? Are you asking why a person with a PhD in Archeology doesn't know what RAM is? Why the elderly become set in their ways? Something else?
  • Oh, except, you know, the "ANTI" part.
    You missed the joke.

    Anyhow...probably my biggest pet peeve is when people call their mp3 player "my mp3". No goddammit, mp3 is a fucking file type. Hell, most "mp3 players" may as well be just "music players" since every music player plays at least a few more file types other than mp3.
    Yeah, I'd have to say that that is the single most thing that gets me annoyed as hell.

    There's easily other stuff I could mention, as my dad and sister frequently do stupid stuff that gets on my nerves, but I can't think of anything specific.
  • edited July 2008
    Anyhow...probably my biggest pet peeve is when people call their mp3 player "my mp3". No goddammit, mp3 is a fucking file type. Hell, most "mp3 players" may as well be just "music players" since every music player plays at least a few more file types other than mp3.
    Yeah, I'd have to say that that is the single most thing that gets me annoyed as hell.
    Holy Crap! My mom does that too! Bugs the shit out of me.
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • What's the point of a rant like this? Are you asking for advice on how to show them how to do the things they're having trouble with? Is it just a case of "Haha! Despite admittedly being only barely computer literate, at least I know people more ignorant than me"? Are you asking why a person with a PhD in Archeology doesn't know what RAM is? Why the elderly become set in their ways? Something else?
    I think her post has value because it is hard evidence of the fact that ability in one area does not equal ability in others. We are not all polymaths. However, these people are probably not trying very hard. Now I'm thinking: is there any part of my own life where I am as clueless in a specific area as these people? I don't know much about surgery I guess, but that's not something I need to do every day.
  • edited July 2008
    My dad continually calls DVDs "CDs." It can get really confusing, because you can't tell if he's referring to a music CD, or a CD-RW, or a DVD. and when I correct him on it he just says, "Same thing!" to which I respond, "Yeah, except for the, you know, 4GB size difference."

    It's also really funny watching him try to use my mouse. He's used to the touchpad on his laptop, so switching to a mouse is a little bit of a change, but my mouse is a Logitech MX Revolution on maximum sensitivity/cursor speed, so he kind of circles what he wants to click on like a hawk circling its prey for a good 15 seconds.
    Now I'm thinking: is there any part of my own life where I am as clueless in a specific area as these people?
    This is something I have considered as well, and I think the closest answer I can come to is cars. I can drive to my destination, use the air conditioning and radio, but when it comes to my car not working properly, I know nothing. I'm not quite sure if this is the same level of illiteracy mentioned in the original post, but it's as close as I can come.
    Post edited by trogdor9 on
  • Well, a DVD is Compact, and it's a Disc :P
    However, I agree. I too find it annoying when DVDs are called CDs.
  • Assuming that the disc format isn't marked, how can one tell the difference between a DVD and a VCD without sticking it in a drive?
  • Assuming that the disc format isn't marked, how can one tell the difference between a DVD and a VCD without sticking it in a drive?
    Burned DVDs are dark purple on the bottom.
  • Assuming that the disc format isn't marked, how can one tell the difference between a DVD and a VCD without sticking it in a drive?
    Burned DVDs are dark purple on the bottom.
    Depends on the type. But it's usually marked and it's rare not to find marked ones (unless you go out of your way to find them).
  • I've started to do a lot of freelance IT consulting, and most of my clients seem to be older people. There are two kinds of people I have encountered in my job: clueless people who let you do your work, and clueless people who think they know better than you.

    The first kind, when given a choice of programs, will pick the one recommended to them, which really speeds things up. When I say "I'd like to install Open Office, VLC, and CCleaner," they simply say "ok." I like these people.

    The second kind are terrible. Every step of the way, one must fight their stubbornness with irrefutable logic. It is tiring. The real frustrating thing about these people is that they know they are ignorant of the subject, and they know I am knowledgeable about it (that's why they're paying me), but they still refuse my advice. These kinds of people become indignant when I suggest alternatives, and can't manage to complete the simplest tasks (for instance, finding the start menu).

    I really enjoy the rare moments when I work with someone slightly knowledgeable about their computer. It makes my job worth it.
  • When I say "I'd like to install Open Office, VLC, and CCleaner," they simply say "ok."
    They should be saying "No.". Open Office is obsolete, VLC is crap, and CCleaner sounds like some shady file removing tool. If you need to use those tools in that little job, bring them on a USB stick. And please tell me you actually tell the victim what each of those programs is, and why you need to install them before actually installing. If you aren't giving them information, they cannot make a decision. You shouldn't just carefully accept that "ok." from them, try to make them more knowledgeable about their computer. You should be liking those people who are stubborn, they keep you on your toes, they keep you doing research into better alternatives, or more alternatives. You not liking that second kind of person means to me that you just suck at counselling and only do the job for money.
  • Open Office is obsolete? It's free and regularly updated. I use it every day. Only doing a job for money is hardly a crime. People have to eat. It doesn't sound like that YoshoKatana is bad.

    What's with the "I suck" overlays in the forum?
  • ......
    edited July 2008
    Open Office is obsolete?
    Google docs. I know, I know, I just wanted to point a flaw out about all of them, and couldn't think of anything for OO other than it being obsolete with online office suits these days.
    What's with the "I suck" overlays in the forum?
    Let me get my quote.
    My thing of the day the that clever yet mean avatar Myself is sporting! :P
    It is my silent protest against the huge flaw in the board coding. Avatars are supposed to be 32 by 32 pixels. Sure, they are cut at a width of 32px, but not at a height of 32px, when that's only one extra sentence in the CSS.

    That, and I need to stop being lazy and make the bottom transparent.
    Result:
    It's not a problem in the css, but in vanilla itself that adds avatar support. I'll fix it one of these days.
    Post edited by ... on
  • When I say "I'd like to install Open Office, VLC, and CCleaner," they simply say "ok."
    They should be saying "No.". Open Office is obsolete, VLC is crap, and CCleaner sounds like some shady file removing tool. If you need to use those tools in that little job, bring them on a USB stick. And please tell me you actually tell the victim what each of those programs is, and why you need to install them before actually installing. If you aren't giving them information, they cannot make a decision. You shouldn't just carefully accept that "ok." from them, try to make them more knowledgeable about their computer. You should be liking those people who are stubborn, they keep you on your toes, they keep you doing research into better alternatives, or more alternatives. You not liking that second kind of person means to me that you just suck at counselling and only do the job for money.
    CCleaner = shady? Wtf.
    VLC is crap. MPlayer and CCCP with Media player classic are definitely better.
    Open Office isn't exactly obsolete, but I guess you could just use Google Docs.
  • ......
    edited July 2008
    CCleaner = shady? Wtf.
    What? I never heard of it. First I was going to write "semi-shady" but found just "shady" to be better. I'll check out their website in a minute.
    100% Spyware FREE
    This software does NOT contain any Spyware, Adware or Viruses.
    That is VERY important to put on your front page. Especially since every site filled with nothing but spyware, adware and viruses ALSO has the same text on their front page. Sure, it might not be shady, but semi-shady at best it is.
    Post edited by ... on
  • edited July 2008
    Whatever, dude. I've been using it for about a year and it's been fine. No viruses or spyware thus far. Most tech sites I read (lifehacker, cybernetnews, etc) all recommend the program.

    It's also the most popular download on filehippo (not really that important, but I find filehippo to be a very useful site).
    Post edited by Dkong on
  • edited July 2008
    CCleaner, while closed-source, is a legitimate program, and I generally install it on clients' computers (because they can't clean and uninstall things on their own). I use VLC because, while I like Mplayer and CCCP, many of my clients don't trust the installation program's visual theme. Yes, it has happened multiple times. "I don't want to use Russian software..." Explaining does nothing: These people lived at the height of the Cold War.

    Open Office is used for the simple reason that they can't wrap their minds around an online office suite. They generally only go online to check their email and do some light browsing. They don't use bookmarks.

    And yes, I generally do this job simply for the money. Sometimes, though, I have the opportunity to install ubuntu and convince them to give it a try. Without exception, all have enjoyed it and found it easier to use than Windows.

    Also, when I say that some clients are stubborn, I mean that they are stubborn even after I explain what all of the recommended programs do. See my CCCP example above. Many people are that stubborn.
    Post edited by YoshoKatana on
  • [M]any of my clients don't trust the installation program's visual theme. Yes, it has happened multiple times. "I don't want to use Russian software..." Explaining does nothing: These people lived at the height of the Cold War.
    *CRY!* The only reason why it has the iconic Russian theme is because the pack is produced by a community, efforts of many combined to create the awesome result of Chiyo-Chan's Cute Player. And for God's sake, yes, the Russian might have been a threat in the Cold War, but it's no longer the Cold War! It's often annoying that the majority of eldery are so close-minded and stubborn in their ways.

    Okay, so it will take 3 more generations before the current level of worst computer illiteracy will be all but eliminated.
  • It's often annoying that the majority of eldery are so close-minded and stubborn in their ways.
    Just wait til it's you, and these damn kids don't have any respect! The world's going to hell!
  • This only became a problem in my life when I started assuming that all old people were bad with computers. More than once I've been explaining something painfully simple, only to have them interrupt me angrily and rap me about the ankles with their cane.
  • edited July 2008
    There was this one guy once who came into Gateway (this was 2002/3-ish)and demanded from me that I sell him a Laptop.....with only DOS on it. Yeah, fun day that was.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • There was this one guy once who came into Gateway (this was 2002/3-ish)and demanded from me that I sell him a Laptop.....with only DOS on it. Yeah, fun day that was.
    Gateway might not have offered such a product at the time, but such products did exist. In fact, you can buy a laptop from Dell today that comes with FreeDOS installed.

  • It's also really funny watching him try to use my mouse. He's used to the touchpad on his laptop, so switching to a mouse is a little bit of a change, but my mouse is a Logitech MX Revolution on maximum sensitivity/cursor speed, so he kind of circles what he wants to click on like a hawk circling its prey for a good 15 seconds.
    That's awesome. My dad can't type and can't use his mouse. This is the same man who has broken three flip phones in half. Yet he makes his own frankenstein computers. Some things make no sense.
  • edited July 2008
    You know what I realized? These computer illiterate people talk themselves into giving up and shut off when you try to teach them anything. It's not that they can't learn, it's that they don't want to, or are too intimidated to. My dad is an engineer who knows a bunch of programming languages so he doesn't count, but my mom is really good because when she doesn't understand something, she listens and watches when you explain it. Mum is computer literate as a result. However my grandmother won't even try. She gives up before she even starts using a computer.
    Post edited by gomidog on
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