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Man clung to his religion and guns, and shoots a few Unitarians.....

CremlianCremlian
edited July 2008 in News
Man Shoots churchgoers over liberal views

Who in their right mind shoots Unitarians.... Oh.. Yea, he wasn't in his right mind...


"It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that and his stated hatred of the liberal movement," Owen said at a news conference.

So he was clinging to his guns and his religion!
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Comments

  • jccjcc
    Are you sure it wasn't out of his frustration over none of the Unitarian-Universalists being able to explain why they are neither Unitarians nor Universalists? :)
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
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  • RailithRailith
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  • SailSail
    The subliminal messaging made me lol more than the actual comic.
  • rhinocerorhinocero
    Too bad Jack Thompson was recently hanged for being insane.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    What happened was terrible. However, as an aside, I have to say that the Unitarian "religion" is absurd as it gets. At least other religions actually believe in something and stick with it. If you've ever been to a Unitarian service, you'll see just how schizophrenic it is.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • RymRym
    I have to say that the Unitarian "religion" is absurd as it gets.
    I actually like the Unitarian Universalists: they're basically just semi-organized spiritual atheists.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    I actually like the Unitarian Universalists: they're basically just semi-organized spiritual atheists.
    Ahh... but if you've ever gone to a service you will see that they are not. They're actually far from it. They pray to God. They also pray to Mohamed and Buddha. The problem is that they don't know what to believe in, so they choose to believe a little of everything. It's all quite annoying and spineless. If you're going to be wrong, at least be wrong with conviction.

    I'd have no problem if they focused on spirituality in a comparative-religion type endeavor. Unfortunately, it's far from it. It's hard to explain. You have to sit through a few services to see what I mean. At the end of the day, you leave a Unitarian service feeling quite empty. For me, this is largely because there is no community. A community needs something in common, and this just doesn't exist in the Unitarian world.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • AndrewAndrew
    Ahh... but if you've ever gone to a service you will see that they are not. They're actually far from it. They pray to God. They also pray to Mohamed and Buddha. The problem is that they don't know what to believe in, so they choose to believe a little of everything. It's all quite annoying and spineless. If you're going to be wrong, at least be wrong with conviction.

    I'd have no problem if they focused on spirituality in a comparative-religion type endeavor. Unfortunately, it's far from it. It's hard to explain. You have to sit through a few services to see what I mean. At the end of the day, you leave a Unitarian service feeling quite empty. For me, this is largely because there is no community. A community needs something in common, and this just doesn't exist in the Unitarian world.
    Did you just make an argument in favor of religious fundamentalism?
  • RymRym
    For me, this is largely because there is no community.
    The community around Unitarian churches is usually very active and close-knit.
    Ahh... but if you've ever gone to a service you will see that they are not [atheists].
    Every congregation is different. They have no "official" theology. At least in these parts, they're largely secular humanists.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    The community around Unitarian churches is usually very active and close-knit.
    Socially, yes. Spiritually, ABSOLUTELY not. I can find better groups socially, which is why Unitarianism never made sense to me.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • jccjcc
    edited July 2008
    My experience with the Unitarian-Universalists has been similar to kilarney's. Generally the only uniting characteristic was that most of the members had formerly been Christians and they missed Christian-style surroundings (stained glass, pews, singing, etc.) but weren't interested in the teachings typically found in such places. Lots of New Agers and atheists, and a smattering of gay Christians who were looking for a church that ignored their orientation.

    I do get the impression that this wasn't always so and that at one time Unitarian Universalists were actually Unitarians and Universalists, but something happened at some point in the past and the makeup of the church shifted.
    Post edited by jcc on
  • CremlianCremlian
    Wait a minute Unitarians have a lot in common, tolerance, liberal ideas, secular government and a major belief that you can learn from other people's ideas and you should hear people out, also that you should give back to the community. Every speaker who says anything controversial gives a 15 to 20 minute time at the end of their talk for questions and comments. Their Easter service talked about Jesus and Christianity for about 20 minutes and ended it with "some say". Also it's a great place to find other Humanists or any random belief you might be looking for.

    (Hangs out at a Unitarian fellowship every once and a while)
  • konistehradkonistehrad
    I actually like the Unitarian Universalists: they're basically just semi-organized spiritual atheists
    I get the feeling you might be referring to spiritual agnostics, not atheists. Spirituality implies some level of theism.
  • RymRym
    Spirituality implies some level of theism.
    I verymuch disagree.

    Also, remember that agnosticism and atheism answer two entirely different questions. Furthermore, most theologians assert that agnosticism is effectively atheism.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    Wait a minute Unitarians have a lot in common, tolerance, liberal ideas, secular government and a major belief that you can learn from other people's ideas and you should hear people out, also that you should give back to the community.
    The problem I have is that you don't have to sit in a make-believe Christian church to do all of this. That's what is absurd about it.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    I actually like the Unitarian Universalists: they're basically just semi-organized spiritual atheists.
    Ahh... but if you've ever gone to a service you will see that they are not. They're actually far from it. They pray to God. They also pray to Mohamed and Buddha. The problem is that they don't know what to believe in, so they choose to believe a little of everything. It's all quite annoying and spineless. If you're going to be wrong, at least be wrong with conviction.
    Excuse me, I used to attend a Universalist Church as an athiest and LOVED it. It was the only church that questioned belief in God or gods. It gave me hope that people that have the feeling or belief that there is a "higher power" are willing to examine that belief and recognize that it is not rational. Moreover, they use some common sense in their approch to faith - they recognize that if there is a higher power that to put it into any one guise is rediculous. How is this spineless? So you would prefer that they were fire and brimstone bible thumpers that attempt to insert religion into politics and education?
    I'd have no problem if they focused on spirituality in a comparative-religion type endeavor. Unfortunately, it's far from it. It's hard to explain. You have to sit through a few services to see what I mean. At the end of the day, you leave a Unitarian service feeling quite empty. For me, this is largely because there is no community. A community needs something in common, and this just doesn't exist in the Unitarian world.
    Like I said, I used to attend the UU church in Rochester, and it existed to serve as a community of those who had a common love for humanity, a desire to examine faith, a desire to provide comfort and aid to its congregation, and a desire to do good works in the larger community.
  • AndrewAndrew
    Agnosticism is an answer to the epistemological question of whether we do or can ever know the nature of god. Atheism is an answer to the question of what you actually believe. Two separate answers for two separate questions.
  • CremlianCremlian
    Wait a minute Unitarians have a lot in common, tolerance, liberal ideas, secular government and a major belief that you can learn from other people's ideas and you should hear people out, also that you should give back to the community.
    The problem I have is that you don't have to sit in a make-believe Christian church to do all of this. That's what is absurd about it.
    That's why the one I go to calls itself a "fellowship" They have folding chairs in their meeting area.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    Wait a minute Unitarians have a lot in common, tolerance, liberal ideas, secular government and a major belief that you can learn from other people's ideas and you should hear people out, also that you should give back to the community.
    The problem I have is that you don't have to sit in a make-believe Christian church to do all of this. That's what is absurd about it.
    Some people like the structure. Also, it brings people with similar beliefs together. It functions like any other organization, and the structure (both physical and ritualistic) that appeals to its members.
  • gomidoggomidog
    Growing up I loved the community aspect of the Methodist church I went to, I loved the coffee hours and youth groups and friendly conversation. Unitarian Fellowships provide this kind of community, but it is centered around open discussion of philosophy, rather than rigid Christian religion. Isn't that a good idea? I think you are missing the point, Kilarney.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    It was the only church that questioned belief in God or gods.
    That's not the experience I had. The Church didn't question how to worship. There was actually a very rigid service each week. It was severely frowned upon to challenge another's belief in God as well as their expression of that belief. For that matter, you weren't welcome to question someone's belief in Hinduism or Shintoism. It fell under the umbrella of not questioning anything that is spiritual. That's why it was chaotic and annoying.

    If the Church really had rational discussions and debates, then I think it would be interesting. The one I went to was basically a hand holding session with no real academic and/or philosophical discussion. It was just a "feel good" hour where people smiled and didn't really want to think.

    I've always viewed it as a bunch of liberals who aren't brave enough to give up their religious roots. To them I say - get a spine!
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    I think you are missing the point, Kilarney.
    I think you're missing my point. I love the community aspect. I'm always the first to applaud anything that evokes a feeling of "community." My experience, though, is that there was no genuine discussion. Rather, there was a fear of genuine discussion. Everything had to be embraced, and could not be questioned. Therefore, the "community" was a complete fiction. It was chaos masquerading as community.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    I think you are missing the point, Kilarney.
    I think you're missing my point. Ilovethe community aspect. I'm always the first to applaud anything that evokes a feeling of "community." My experience, though, is that there was no genuine discussion. Rather, there was a fear of genuine discussion.Everythinghad to be embraced, and could not be questioned. Therefore, the "community" was a complete fiction. It was chaos masquerading as community.
    Which UU chruch did you attend?
  • CremlianCremlian
    edited July 2008
    I think you are missing the point, Kilarney.
    I think you're missing my point. Ilovethe community aspect. I'm always the first to applaud anything that evokes a feeling of "community." My experience, though, is that there was no genuine discussion. Rather, there was a fear of genuine discussion.Everythinghad to be embraced, and could not be questioned. Therefore, the "community" was a complete fiction. It was chaos masquerading as community.
    Did the one you attend have a discussion hour after? Did it give a chance for people to comment on sermons? You might have just gone to a sucky UU fellowship. UU's preach tolerance, not embracing something you don't agree with. If you don't like the structure of a particular Sunday, go to one the next week and you'll find it completely different.
    Post edited by Cremlian on
  • AndrewAndrew
    I think you're missing my point. Ilovethe community aspect. I'm always the first to applaud anything that evokes a feeling of "community." My experience, though, is that there was no genuine discussion. Rather, there was a fear of genuine discussion.Everythinghad to be embraced, and could not be questioned. Therefore, the "community" was a complete fiction. It was chaos masquerading as community.
    While I don't doubt your observations nor do I disagree with your conclusions, a sample size of one church is hardly enough to make a decision on Unitarians.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    Which UU chruch did you attend?
    It was in Vermont.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • KilarneyKilarney
    Did the one you attend have a discussion hour after?
    No.
    Did it give a chance for people to comment on sermons?
    No.
    You might have just gone to a sucky UU fellowship
    This may be true.
    While I don't doubt your observations nor do I disagree with your conclusions, a sample size of one church is hardly enough to make a decision on Unitarians.
    Agreed. Although I can say that at this point in my life, it's not my cup of tea - even if there is a great congregation out there.
  • CremlianCremlian
    I found that attendings are usually retired Scientists and technology people, so if you want to make contacts and don't want to feel dirty about it... it's a good place to go.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    I can say that at this point in my life, it's not my cup of tea - even if there is a great congregation out there.
    Then that's it. It is not FOR you. That doesn't mean it is bad, wrong, poorly organized, or spineless - it just is not FOR you.
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