Oh yeah, I mean Disney does that sort of thing with all the stories they adapt (Herculesbeingby farthe worst offender), I just meant that they didn't let the fact that no one in the U.S. was really aware of the original story get in the way of adapting it in the first place. If they really wanted to, I'm sure they'd have no problem selling a film based on a story from any pre-Columbian culture (or any other, really).
It's called "Stealing from the Forgotten Masters" - and seriously, how many people do you really think Knew that the movie Mulan was based on the Ballad of Mulan?
I think it is more demeaning if Disney were to seek to represent every single ethnicity in their own particular movie just for the sake of pandering/being PC. To force it, I think, is even more racist. If they are doing their jobs correctly, the stories and characters should resonate with people of all ethnicities regardless of the pigments and accents of the characters.
I think it is more demeaning if Disney were to seek to represent every single ethnicity in their own particular movie just for the sake of pandering/being PC. To force it, I think, is even more racist. If they are doing their jobs correctly, the stories and characters should resonate with people of all ethnicities regardless of the pigments and accents of the characters.
It's called "Stealing from the Forgotten Masters" - and seriously, how many people do you really think Knew that the movie Mulan was based on the Ballad of Mulan?
I did. The original story is a tragedy. (See above.) worse than that, how many kids don't know that Quasimodo was a mute, since he belted out so many tunes in the Disney version, or that Esmeralda was hung for being a witch?
People are idiots. Some idiots think some other idiots have exclusive rights to some things when in reality everybody can do them.
Reading my mind for me and implying that I'm an idiot isn't simply offering your opinion. No hypocrisy? You blew up and insulted my character when I merely mentioned 9/11 recently for example, but I use the word "douchebag" after being quoted and I'm an idiot and you are free of any double standard. Fine.
I'm sure he has a bag of cement lying about somewhere.
Eat it yourself.
animation was not immune to such issues
No shit? You think I needed you to prove that to me...?
My argument wasn't that animation is immune from racism. My argument is that there is a much more conscience effort on the parts of filmmakers today to keep racism out of animation. I use this film as an example.
So then the lines and plot themselves couldn't have had any part in it? You believe controversy would have come up regardless of what the plot had been, forno other reasonthan the protagonist is African-American?
Yes. Because controversy was already coming up months before anyone, even the critics, had seen it or heard any lines from it. Plot? It's a classic fairy tale, same as any white girl would be subjected to. The book that introduced the movie's twist on the fairy tale, "The Frog Princess" features the same transformation of princess to frog. In the book though, the girl isn't black... try to find any controversy surrounding that book or reviews to the effect of it being racist against white women for its plot. Go on.
I did. The original story is a tragedy.
Waitaminute. I read the original poem. I saw no tragedy.
Unless, I'm recalling the wrong movie, And Mulan, instead of getting the cute soldier boy and singing a song, became a general, and following the war, was appointed as a minister, and then when the emperor found out that she was a woman, and forced her to become his concubine, she kills herself.
o_o Dude that is so not what happened.
This is the original "Ballad of Mulan". Mulan is gone at war for 12 years, is acknowledged by the emperor, and requests to return home rather than accept any honors. She returns home, is greeted by her entire family, and reappears in front of all her former comrades-in-arms as a woman for the first time, shocking them. The poem ends with this proverb:
"The male rabbit's feet kick up and down, The female rabbit's eyes are bewildered. Two rabbits running close to the ground, How can they tell if I am male or female?"
I've personally never heard of that version, and I've researched her quite a bit. The version I posted seems to have a very clear message, but I don't see one in the tragic version. Why paint Mulan as a hero only to have her humiliated and killed at the end? I guess you could find a message in that, but...
I looked all around and couldn't find it. Only happy endings about filial piety! Yay! That's good, I like Mulan. Cross dressing soldier girls rock. My guess is that there was some adaptation somewhere along the way that was a tragedy, but the original song is nice at the end.
No shit? You think I needed you to prove that to me...?
My argument wasn't that animation is immune from racism. My argument is that there is a much more conscience effort on the parts of filmmakers today to keep racism out of animation. I use this film as an example.
Again, your original statement was ambiguous. My apologies for interpreting it incorrectly.
So then the lines and plot themselves couldn't have had any part in it? You believe controversy would have come up regardless of what the plot had been, forno other reasonthan the protagonist is African-American?
Yes. Because controversy was already coming upmonthsbefore anyone, even the critics, had seen it or heard any lines from it. Plot? It's a classic fairy tale, same as any white girl would be subjected to. The book that introduced the movie's twist on the fairy tale, "The Frog Princess" features the same transformation of princess to frog. In the book though, the girl isn't black... try to find any controversy surrounding that book or reviews to the effect of it being racist against white women for its plot. Go on.
You're acting like it's an either/or thing: That something is either racist regardless of the actual race of the participants, or it isn't racist at all. Untrue. You can't tell me there's no difference between, say, drawing a political cartoon depicting a Caucasian politician as an ape and drawing an African-American politician as an ape. There's a bad history behind the former depiction that wouldn't be a factor in the latter, and it's not the only example where such histories would create a real difference. Of course the race of the protagonist will be a factor in generating any race-based controversy; what you're implying is that it is the only factor, standing independent of anything else. This is, to be blunt, an unfairly glib assessment.
Controversy months before anyone knew anything about it? Then what were all those details about what they were "forced to" change from their original version you mentioned earlier? Lucky guesses?
You can't tell me there's no difference between, say, drawing a political cartoon depicting a Caucasian politician as an ape and drawing an African-American politician as an ape. There's a bad history behind the former depiction that wouldn't be a factor in the latter, and it's not the only example where such histories would create a real difference.
Case in point: How many "Bush as Chimp" things did you see? It was a very big controversy when someone did a similar caricature of Obama.
Controversy months before anyone knew anything about it? Then what were all those details about what they were "forced to" change from their original version you mentioned earlier? Lucky guesses?
Um. They were from news that I, y'know, kept up with? The articles aren't that hard to find. The main character's name, her original job, and the title of the movie were released to someone who said it was all racist and had to be changed. This was months before I or the rest of the public had seen more than a teaser that revealed next to nothing about the film. By that point there were already numerous articles about the criticism and controversy the film was stirring, to the point where veteran Disney animator Floyd Norman, who was black, said this in response:
"Overly sensitive people see racial or ethnic slights in every image, and in their zeal to sanitize and pasteurize everything, they’ve taken all the fun out of cartoon making.”
You think I'm making shit up, go google it yourself. I'm sick of this crap. You win the internet.
Can we get back to talking about the movie itself now instead of more political crap?
Comments
worse than that, how many kids don't know that Quasimodo was a mute, since he belted out so many tunes in the Disney version, or that Esmeralda was hung for being a witch?
My argument wasn't that animation is immune from racism. My argument is that there is a much more conscience effort on the parts of filmmakers today to keep racism out of animation. I use this film as an example. Yes. Because controversy was already coming up months before anyone, even the critics, had seen it or heard any lines from it. Plot? It's a classic fairy tale, same as any white girl would be subjected to. The book that introduced the movie's twist on the fairy tale, "The Frog Princess" features the same transformation of princess to frog. In the book though, the girl isn't black... try to find any controversy surrounding that book or reviews to the effect of it being racist against white women for its plot. Go on. Waitaminute. I read the original poem. I saw no tragedy. o_o Dude that is so not what happened.
This is the original "Ballad of Mulan". Mulan is gone at war for 12 years, is acknowledged by the emperor, and requests to return home rather than accept any honors. She returns home, is greeted by her entire family, and reappears in front of all her former comrades-in-arms as a woman for the first time, shocking them. The poem ends with this proverb:
"The male rabbit's feet kick up and down,
The female rabbit's eyes are bewildered.
Two rabbits running close to the ground,
How can they tell if I am male or female?"
Quite the opposite of a tragedy.
I
My guess is that there was some adaptation somewhere along the way that was a tragedy, but the original song is nice at the end.
Controversy months before anyone knew anything about it? Then what were all those details about what they were "forced to" change from their original version you mentioned earlier? Lucky guesses?
"Overly sensitive people see racial or ethnic slights in every image, and in their zeal to sanitize and pasteurize everything, they’ve taken all the fun out of cartoon making.”
You think I'm making shit up, go google it yourself. I'm sick of this crap. You win the internet.
Can we get back to talking about the movie itself now instead of more political crap?