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Education

edited September 2008 in Everything Else
There isn't a general thread discussing ideas, innovations, views, advice, experience, and anecdotes on education, so I am creating it.
To start the thread off, here is an article discussing a new school that attempts to minimize the class and income factors in public education. I think it is a pretty neat idea and would love to teach at such a school when I complete my Ed.M. if it fulfills its potential!

Comments

  • John Taylor Gatto

    His name is Gatto. He has metal joints. Beat him up, and get 15 silver points.
  • I'm taking an interest is some areas of education reform, actually. Specifically, I'm interested in improving our public health education, as right now it seems to be fairly poor.

    Really, we need to be teaching more critical thinking skills and less useless trivia. You need a body of factual knowledge, but it seems to me that the education system we've got is hell-bent on continuing to try teaching all the information we know, when we're at a point of having too much information for any one person to know it all.
  • Sudbury Valley School
    The school of win.
    I just checked their website - I basically live right next to one.
  • edited September 2008
    I'm taking an interest is some areas of education reform, actually.
    I really think you could easily reform education by encouraging better people to get into it. Most of the people in my education classes are ditsy girls. I am not sure on graduation rates for these folks, but we need people that can actually figure out what to do when the teacher cancels class.

    What the hell is up with the bullshit I'm being force fed in education classes? These fuckers are some of the most terrible teachers I've ever had, and they are the ones training the next generation of teachers! I literally have a guy that is giving us a test on a PowerPoint presentation he put on the Internet about material he did not cover in class. What we did cover was "inspirational" clips of teachers from movies and even more "useful" and "exciting" buzzwords.

    Fuck that guy!
    Post edited by Railith on
  • jccjcc
    edited September 2008
    With compulsory education, you really have to set your goals quite low. Beyond force-feeding certain skills, it is next to impossible to educate someone who is actively against it.

    Reform in the voluntary education arena, however, is quite possible and very necessary. Unfortunately, there are financial considerations. A large number of mediocre students being issued degrees after 4 years of tuition and fees generates quite a bit of money. If those students had been expelled due to poor performance, their revenue streams would have been lost. Granted, by increasing the caliber of the person graduated there are higher chances of hefty alumni donations in the future, but this is a very unpredictable source of income. In general it seems as if the goal for some schools is simply to get the maximum number of people paying the maximum tuition that their credit limit can bear, and giving them the bare minimum in return. :/ "A fool and his credit are soon parted", that sort of jazz.

    I think a wonderful place to start would be to reform hiring practices. Don't require a Masters for work where a Bachelors would suffice, and don't require a Bachelors where a high school diploma would suffice. It's because of these arbitrary inflated requirements that there is pressure to debase the value of a degree.
    Post edited by jcc on
  • Just chiming in, but I think Public schools should have uniforms.
  • Agreement! But you realize, kids who go to schools that require uniforms hate them.

    ...I like them. Makes mornings easier and mostly eliminates fashion competition.
  • The key thing to take away from John Taylor Gatto is that everyone learns differently, so there needs to be all different types of schools. While a place that is free-wheeling like the Sudbury Valley School would be awesome for someone like me, it's not for everyone. We do need more free-wheeling places, but we also need more structured schools as well. There are some kids who would do best in a state sponsored military academy.

    So some schools, like the military school, would have uniforms, and others wouldn't. Everyone would just go to the place that was best for them.
  • Just chiming in, but I think Public schools should have uniforms.
    Agreement! But you realize, kids who go to schools that require uniforms hate them.

    ...I like them. Makes mornings easier and mostly eliminates fashion competition.
    Ignoring the fact that I do not like the idea of uniforms, what makes you two think schools should have uniforms?
  • Ignoring the fact that I do not like the idea of uniforms, what makes you two think schools should have uniforms?
    Makes mornings easier and mostly eliminates fashion competition.
  • Real reason? School uniform fetish brought on by watching too much anime. :)
  • Um. I went to a public school in the US and then a private girls school in Japan. I've had both and I like the uniform because I feel like it makes people judge you based more on the way you act than the way you dress. Draws attention away from income disparities reflected in clothing, and the multitude of status symbols (abercrombie?) teenagers use to measure each other's "cool" factor. Also, I feel that it gets you in the "school" frame of mind. It's like, when I put on my uniform, I was in School Mode. It was like wearing my track uniform, my Jersey: a rare source of school pride.
  • ^What she said minus the private girls school thing.
  • I've been to a British School, an "International School" and a German School. I believe Germany pays a sixth of what America pays for their students, which explains why our school buildings are falling apart and we don't have an learning materials. On the other hand German School has been the hardest I've been to yet and if I wouldn't learn like 1 to 2 hours a day I would not get good enough marks to qualify for the university courses I want to get into.
  • Um. I went to a public school in the US and then a private girls school in Japan. I've had both and I like the uniform because I feel like it makes people judge you based more on the way you act than the way you dress. Draws attention away from income disparities reflected in clothing, and the multitude of status symbols (abercrombie?) teenagers use to measure each other's "cool" factor. Also, I feel that it gets you in the "school" frame of mind. It's like, when I put on my uniform, I was in School Mode. It was like wearing my track uniform, my Jersey: a rare source of school pride.
    Hmmmm, valid points. Though I personally have never noticed any judging based upon clothing. Then again, I live in the north of the Netherlands, we don't really have snobby clothing-whores around here. I personally do not like the idea of a school uniform, I'd like to be able and wear a funny shirt if I wanted, or clothing that would inform others of my interests, or whatever.
  • In my experience - a Catholic grammar school education - the uniform doesn't really do anything to eliminate fashion competition. If people want to be petty like that, they'll find ways.
  • In my experience - a Catholic grammar school education - the uniform doesn't really do anything to eliminate fashion competition. If people want to be petty like that, they'll find ways.
    The idea that class is based on money is erroneous. Class is based on attitude.
  • Um. I went to a public school in the US and then a private girls school in Japan. I've had both and I like the uniform because I feel like it makes people judge you based more on the way you act than the way you dress. Draws attention away from income disparities reflected in clothing, and the multitude of status symbols (abercrombie?) teenagers use to measure each other's "cool" factor. Also, I feel that it gets you in the "school" frame of mind. It's like, when I put on my uniform, I was in School Mode. It was like wearing my track uniform, my Jersey: a rare source of school pride.
    Gomi, what you said about Abercrombie says everything about my school. To have friends at my school you have to shop at American Eagle, Aeropostale, Hollister or Abercrombie and I just hate all the pressure. I really wish there were uniforms so people judged you more on your character like you said.
  • I hate the clothes they sell at those stores! I mean seriously, all of their clothes look the same! They all sell the same basic stuff except for the logo! Plus, all of their clothes are ridiculously overpriced for the quality of clothing you actually get! What ever happened to individuality? When did everybody become part of the Preppy-Zerg Hive mind? I am perfectly fine with the cargo pants I buy from JC Penny's and Kohl's and the shirts that I buy from Cons and (at ridiculous discount) from the Disney Store and if anyone gives me shit for wearing my Fantasia or Dai-Gurren dan tee-shirts, my Legend of Zelda track jacket or my Soviet-Russian propoganda inspired Grumpy polo shirt I will not care because I am not afraid to show my true self and subscribe to the obscenely expensive trends of today!

    I needed to get this off of my chest, I feel so much better now!
  • edited September 2008
    I've always wished I could attend a school that used uniforms, for both the reasons Emily gave and the reason jcc gave. ;)

    My school wasn't as freewheeling as Sudbury Valley, but it was still pretty free-form compared to most conventional high schools. Basically, it was a self-directed program, meaning you could work on any subject at any time anywhere on school grounds, with seminars and most tests attended on your own personal schedule. You still had to take and complete all the core subjects (Math, English, Social Studies, one or two Sciences, PhysEd, and *shudder* Religion), but for all your other classes, you could take whatever you wanted as long as you at least filled up all your credit requirements for an Alberta high school diploma. I described my experience at that school a while back in this thread, if anyone wants more details. Overall, it was great! I really wish more schools like it existed in the world. :D
    Post edited by Eryn on
  • jccjcc
    edited September 2008
    I hate the clothes they sell at those stores! I mean seriously, all of their clothes look the same! They all sell the same basic stuff except for the logo! Plus, all of their clothes are ridiculously overpriced for the quality of clothing you actually get! What ever happened to individuality? When did everybody become part of the Preppy-Zerg Hive mind?
    This is true of most clothes. For instance, It may appear to someone that their t-shirt, jeans, and athletic shoes are totally different than their friends' t-shirt, jeans, and athletic shoes, but to a person not familiar with the little details, honestly they'll all look identical, much like the Preppy Zerg. Confront members of the Preppy Zerg on their identical clothes, they will loudly protest that their khakis are British khaki with flap pockets while their friends are Stone with besom pockets, their pink shirt is an oxford cloth while their friends' pink shirt is a broadcloth, that they are wearing single-soled Rainbows while their friend is wearing double-soled. :) Totally different! :P Confront members of the jeans-and-tshirt-Zerg on their identical clothes, and they will loudly protest that their jeans are slim-fit raw indigo while their friends jeans are boot-cut overdyed indigo, (Or even stonewashed! How could you even begin to think that they were both, well, jeans?) their t-shirt is a Threadless shirt with an abstract picture on it, while their friends t-shirt is... well, another Threadless shirt with an abstract picture on it, but a totally unrelated one! They're wearing low-top black Chucks while their friend is wearing high-top black Chucks. It's like night and day! :P
    Post edited by jcc on
  • I think you misunderstood me, jcc. I meant that the actual designs of the clothes the Preppy Zerg stores sell are all very similar to one another, just with different logos and names. If you were to just glance at an Abercrombie and a Hollister shirt, most people would say that they look like the person got them from the same store.
  • At might high school there were definitely people who cared about fashion. They were wearing the Abercrombies and such. But nobody ever really cared about anyone else's fashion. If people harassed each other, it was never about fashion. I do remember that when I was a freshman, the senior class had a pretty strong culture of labeling people as to what group they were in, be it jocks, freaks, etc. Our class didn't have that at all really. The coolest kids in my class weren't popular kids who looked down on everyone like on TV. They were the kids that got along well with everyone, thus making them more popular.
  • I think you misunderstood me, jcc. I meant that the actual designs of the clothes the Preppy Zerg stores sell are all very similar to one another, just with different logos and names. If you were to just glance at an Abercrombie and a Hollister shirt, most people would say that they look like the person got them from the same store.
    Just like Lee, Wranglers, and Levis. :)
  • Gomi, what you said about Abercrombie says everything about my school. To have friends at my school you have to shop at American Eagle, Aeropostale, Hollister or Abercrombie and I just hate all the pressure.
    I suppose my school was like that, but I never really noticed, and it never affected my life. I just wore whatever I felt like wearing, and everything worked out fine. I can't recall anyone ever treating me differently when I fell into one fashion trend or another. On more than one occasion, I showed up to middle school dressed essentially like a hobo. I was never aware of any pressure, and I never really noticed anyone else caring about what people wore at all.

    I would have hated uniforms. I imagine I would have been one of those rabble-rousers who would have refused to wear one and caused enough trouble to eventually have been spared the indignity. The district hinted and the idea of uniforms once, to the immediate and fierce outcry of the students, the parents, and the community in general. A petition signed by the majority of the student body agreeing to refuse to submit was delivered to the vice principle within a few weeks of the rumor about possibly considering uniforms getting around. Parents stormed the next PTA meeting furious that uniforms were even being considered.

    Of course, if we had more stratified education, then I could accept uniforms for problem schools if there were evidence that it would help. I just feel that, for non-problem students, such as myself, all a uniform would have done is engendered my own disrespect for authority and general frustration with the school itself.
  • I suppose my school was like that, but I never really noticed, and it never affected my life. I just wore whatever I felt like wearing, and everything worked out fine.
    This.
    I just feel that, for non-problem students, such as myself, all a uniform would have done is engendered my own disrespect for authority and general frustration with the school itself.
    Also this.

    Actually, I have an interesting(ish) story about clothes. On an average day, I would wager than any of you would be able to pick me out of a classroom of kids--I'm always the one with the ROFLcopter shirt on, or the sleepy one in the caffeine molecule hoodie. However, Friday was picture day, and my mom insisted that I wear a polo shirt, rather than whichever ThinkGeek shirt paired with a pair of shorts I would have pulled out of my closet. Later in the day, my friends told me they didn't recognize me at first without a geek shirt on.
    To have friends at my school you have to shop at American Eagle, Aeropostale, Hollister or Abercrombie and I just hate all the pressure.
    My school has a robotics team. If this pressure you speak of exists in my school, I certainly don't notice it. I find ignoring this sort of thing makes everything easier. Also, at first glance, Hollister looked like Hitler.
  • edited September 2008
    Rym, if we go live in Japan, you will be so frustrated at everything. You are soooo not Japanese.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • Part of the argument for uniforms was to fight against student self-stratification in social groups based on clothing and an attempt to curb bullying. Other arguments are that it removes distractions (makes it difficult to wear revealing clothing for example). In inner city schools, I know that there was a big push for uniforms to eliminate the possability of students wearing gang colors and symbols (more common that I had previously thought).
    The one that made the most sense to me was the argument that stated the goal was to have students aim for a professional appearance, since they would need to look professional in the real job market. (Yes, Rym, I'm aware of your Hawaiian shirts, but we're talking huddled masses here, not everyone being awesome /sarcasim) They basically told students that school was their work, and that work required uniforms. Their uniform was something they should be proud of, since the school was performing so well, and that they should be in 'school mode' while the uniform is on. Most of the students bought in to this way of thinking, and were great students in school, regardless of what went on outside.
    Even now, the charter school I teach at (it's grades k-3) requires uniforms. You can either buy them from the school for a relatively inexpensive amount (profits go to buying supplies, helping the school maintain itself, or assisting other students buy uniforms), or you can go wherever and buy whatever as long as it fits the dress code. Most of the parents love this because they can buy school clothes cheaply. Families from poorer backgrounds like it because their child doesn't stand out for having poor quality clothes, or one or two sets of clothing because no one can tell. The kids also make an effort to look put-together in their uniforms (shirts tucked in, etc.) and most of them either like them or don't care.

    Where I lived, there was definitely a bias based on clothing. Stupid? Yes. But it was a middle-upper class to upper-class area of Maryland. I ignored it by the time I was in Jr. High, but many students didn't understand why I thought they were morons for spending $100 on a pair of pre-ripped stone-washed jeans. Or why I laughed when they thought they were all ghetto and urban when they wore designer jeans & boxers, new Timberlands, silver wallet chains, and over-sized brand-name team jackets for the Dallas Cowboys in Maryland in June. If mommy and daddy bought you an Acura for your second car because you totaled the first one, you're not ghetto.
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