It annoys me when sports I don't like are on tv but then I will fight with the same people when they say that sports that I like shouldn't be on tv. You can still have fun playing sports if you are no good at them. In my opinion it is more fun if you aren't very good. If you're good at a sport it becomes your whole life and you train all the time and get really disappointed when you lose and talk about it all the time. If you suck at it and you join a club and play in one of the bottom grades of the club or just with a group of friends you don't give a fuck if you win or lose and you spend more time talking and laughing than actually training. The other plus is that no one cares if you screw up and you just get props for trying.
Blast I'm not aware of any compulsory Government after school sports programs, I was forced to play after school sport but that's because I went to a private school and private schools can torture their kids any way they want. Rym's right that its not the "important" games rather than the popular ones, I play women's cricket and I am exceptionally passionate about it, I recently wrote to Channel 9 and many sponsors of cricket asking them to show women's cricket on television. Last summer the Australian Women's cricket team played several international first class matches against India, far more "important" than some AFL game and yet far less popular. No one was even considering thinking about putting it on television because it wouldn't be profitable.
I spent most of my childhood loathing being forced into playing sport as a child (again at a private school not a government school) but then, you know what? I did something about it. I went to a small, all girls, Christian school, the choices we had playing sport were all shit and I hated them all, but I loved cricket, and I knew we once had a cricket team and I knew that there was a school competition for girls so I got some like minded people together and petitioned the sports department and the principal and bugged them until we got ourselves a cricket team. We SUCKED, and I mean sucked, we were the laughing stock of the competition but we had a great time, we got to play a sport we were interested in. Don't blame sport for making your life hell as a child, blame your school for forcing you into it or yourself for not doing anything about it.
Compulsory sport in school is good for kids, it gets them out of the classroom, gives them a rest from sitting there, gets them fit etc. schools are moving away from the usual things, schools are now using DDR in sport classes and other things. Removing compulsory sport classes (I mean gym or PE or whatever you call it) removes the main battleground of geekitude in schools the geeks vs the PE teacher.
I would make it illegal for private schools to do such a thing too. The waiting lines for good private schools are idiotic. You have to enroll your kid when they are one year old. You can't know what they'll be like in 12 years.
Firstly its probably not necesarry to quote the entire previous post, and secondly the point of private schools is that you avoid a lot of government intervention in the way your child is educated.
One, the making of a statement that is similar to the structure of a logical fallacy does not in and of itself invalidate said statement. You made the first move in stating that you are proud of being bad a sports. Apreche countered with the statement that this is not worthy of respect. He was making his own inductive arguments separate from the main body, citing evidence in his case. It was not, thus, a fallacy.
Your statement was not part of your body of argument, and was mostly irrelevant. Apreche called you out on it. Apreche did not use this calling out as the basis of the argument. Something can only be called a logical fallacy if it is used as the (flawed) basis of an argument. Many things that are fallacies can still be used in a preponderance of evidence argument.
It also depends on what type of argument you are having (deductive versus inductive). The fallacy of appeal to authority, for example, is indeed a fallacy in certain deductive arguments, but can also be perfectly valid depending on the context of the statement.
More to the point, your argument is feeble and laughable. Your precedents beg the question. Your conclusions are specious. You fail to address rational disagreement properly. You decry others for making "ad hominem" arguments, yet have yourself never once presented a valid deductive statement, let alone a supported inductive one. You make rhetorical arguments, yet cry foul when others respond in kind.
Either make a deductive argument and play by the rules, make an inductive one and state your case, or make a rhetorical one and deal with the consequences. You're all over the place.
Schools are forcing kids to play sport, not encouraging fitness. I by discouraging sport will force no-one to change anything about their lifestyle. I agree to a point that the government should not encourage or discourage anything ever (discouraging basic and agreed on crimes like theft are an exception of course), however this would also mean that the govenment would also have to stop promoting sport.
Didn't you just say that government should discourage sport culture? Make up your mind!
I never meant to say that sport funding was in any way taking away from research funds. I was simply using it as a example that more important areas could be cut back on so why not sport.
I think your problem here is that you don't have a firm understanding of what is important and what is not. Just because you, personally, do not like sport does not mean it is not important. If you live in a country in which people vote, then you agree to fall under the majority rule. The reason that the majority of the people in your country have decided that mandatory sport is a good thing is because of people like you. Sport is good for you, whether you like it or not. You haven't submitted a single valid argument as to how and why sport is bad other than your personal dislike for it. If the government changed all its laws whenever one person didn't like something, I'm sure you can see where that would lead.
Yes I do not believe that high school at least should be mandatory. I do however believe that their should be government funded schools so everyone keeps their freedom to get an education.
If you agree that grade school and middle school should be mandatory, then you must agree that sport should be mandatory in those schools. You have provided no argument that physical education is less valid than any other subject. Therefore if you argue that sport should be elective you must agree that all other subjects must be elective. If all subjects are elective, then you are contradicting yourself if you say any schooling at all should be mandatory. That is because if all courses were elective, then school itself is elective.
Also, if you agree that government should fund schools, then you must agree that that same government should regulate those schools. In any country in which people vote and pay taxes the majority theoretically rules. If that majority, even if by proxy, has decided that sport should be mandatory, you can not disagree. The only way you can argue that sport should not be mandatory in a government school is if most of the taxpayers agreed with you. They surely do not. If you want it to change, try to get the votes. I assure you, you will fail.
ad hominem
See Rym's post.
But one could argue that passion is infact liking the game.
Passion is not the same as liking. Having passion for something means that it stirs up strong emotions in you. For example, the Stanley Cup is very capable of stirring up strong emotions in me. Passion for a sport means that the sport elicits strong emotions from within you. Nobody says you have to like those emotions. I did not say that everyone with passion and understanding for a sport necessarily enjoys it. I said that it is impossible to enjoy a sport without both understanding and passion. There is a big difference.
But how do you get that passion in the first place.
It differs from person to person. Everyone finds passion in their own way. Personally, my passion for different sports has changed greatly over the years. But passion for sports is no different than passion for other things. How do you become passionate about video games? How do you become passionate about anime? It's just something you discover on your own.
If you want to try to like a sport the easiest way is to go to a sporting event, pick a team and hope they win. Think of it sort of like Pokemon. There is an arena in which a game is played. You are a Pokemaster and you must select a Pokemon to fight in this arena. If your Pokemon wins, you win. If your Pokemon loses, you lose. The team you are rooting for is your Pokemon. They are a representation of you on the battlefield as much as your avatar is a reprsentation of you in World of Warcraft. When they are doing well, you are happy. When they are doing poorly, you are frustrated. That's really what spectator sport is all about.
ad hominem
See Rym again.
I would make it illegal for private schools to do such a thing too. The waiting lines for good private schools are idiotic. You have to enroll your kid when they are one year old. You can't know what they'll be like in 12 years.
Ok, just wow. The point of a private school is that it is a school which is not run by the government. A private school is no different, legally, than a private individual person. If you think it is ok for the goverment to tell private schools how to teach children, then you must agree it is ok for the government to tell parents how to raise their children. You must agree that the government should be allowed to make a law outlawing parents forcing kids to brush their teeth, eat or bathe.
As far as waiting lists, that's capitalism. If you want freedom, that's what you have to deal with.
As far as the rest of us are concerned, every aspect of your incredibly weak argument is contradictory and false. If you want to continue, I suggest you start again from the beginning. Here, I'll help you.
Your main point is that physical education should not be mandatory in public schools. Trust me, you want to limit it to public schools only. If you want to support that argument you have to answer a lot of things. Should any schooling be mandatory at all, why or why not? If any schooling at all is mandatory, which elements of schooling should be mandatory and why? If some schooling should be mandatory and physical education should not be, what makes physical education different from the other parts of education? Why is physical education so much less important than other areas of education that it should not be mandatory while other parts are?
Right now your entire argument, seriously, is whiny 2-year old argument. This is what you sound like to me:
"Mommy, I don't want to take the cough medicine, it tastes bad! Parents shouldn't be allowed to make kids take cough medicine. People shouldn't make me do something I don't want to do. The government is evil for forcing me to do something I don't like. Waaaah!"
I suggest you reply with something more intelligent.
Yeah, you've been rolling 1's all through the thread, blast flame. Why don't you just script an Incite, Rym will script a Feint, Scott will script a Dismiss, and we can all move on, OK?
/Finally, an inside joke I can be in on. Yeah! //And what is it about posters with flame (or flamm, as the case may be) in their name? They just can't win the fights they start.
Yeah, you've been rolling 1's all through the thread, blast flame. Why don't you just script an Incite, Rym will script a Feint, Scott will script a Dismiss, and we can all move on, OK?
/Finally, an inside joke I can be in on. Yeah! //And what is it about posters with flame (or flamm, as the case may be) in their name? They just can't win the fights they start.
The word flame in my name is more derived from explosions in first person shooters.
Blast you must have gone to a private school if you were forced into after school sport because I'm not aware of any government schools in Australia that force children into after school activities. I believe that sport classes of physical fitness classes are compulsory in most schools but that is a small percentage of your school day, and personally I believe that being forced into things in school gives children a chance to learn how to deal with things that they hate, this is very important for future life in which many things that you hate will have to be dealt with. I learnt a lot of that at my school.
I say again if you were miserable playing sport after school sport at school you should have done something about it. There are private schools that allow students to get out of sport if they do another activity (not my school they were sport fascists) did you try to do something about it or did you just complain?
Blast you must have gone to a private school if you were forced into after school sport because I'm not aware of any government schools in Australia that force children into after school activities. I believe that sport classes of physical fitness classes are compulsory in most schools but that is a small percentage of your school day, and personally I believe that being forced into things in school gives children a chance to learn how to deal with things that they hate, this is very important for future life in which many things that you hate will have to be dealt with. I learnt a lot of that at my school.
I say again if you were miserable playing sport after school sport at school you should have done something about it. There are private schools that allow students to get out of sport if they do another activity (not my school they were sport fascists) did you try to do something about it or did you just complain?
I did try to get rid of sport. However the school was structured in such a way that the only way to get out of sport is to be physically unable to do it.
How to get a mention on geeknights 1.Have little or no comunication skills 2.try to debate
Sport is one of the things wrong with the world. It is an oil spill covering everything. If there is an "important" sport match on, no matter what show is normally on it will be replaced by sport. Sport breeds violent behavior and discourages intelligence. Some people say "but sport keeps people fit," however watching sport and the beer drunk while watching it is one of the main things that makes people fat.
I however am pro-freedom so I do not want to outright ban sport. Instead the following measures should be imposed. Sport funding should be lowered, all compulsory out of school hours sport programs should become optional and sport culture should be discouraged.
I agree. Far too much importance is attached to sports. WHY does every high school have to have a sports team? What does sports have to do with learning? And before someone makes the comment, "it's not mandatory", I will respond: it's neither mandatory or voluntary --it's just there as a cultural fixture. And to not accept this fixture, to not play along, to not accept this inherited custom is thought to be anti-social. So even if it's not "mandatory", if you don't either participate or cheer on those that do, you're automatically on the wrong side of the equation.
The ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Carthaginians, the Byzantines: they all believed in the importance of both the mind and the body. To cultivate one at the expense of the other makes one less than whole. We are physical beings just as we are intellectual ones, and we would do ourselves a great disservice to abandon this.
Sports teach our youth about competition. They teach us both how to win and how to lose. They teach us teamwork. They teach us to deal with pain, hardship, and even humiliation. They sharpen both our minds and bodies, and make us stronger.
I am a geek. I play Dungeons and Dragons and computer games. I do a podcast and watch anime. I enjoy Chinese films and science fiction. I also am an avid biker, runner, and hiker. Just as I strive to improve myself mentally, I strive to improve myself physically. Despite all of this, I am still a geek.
it's just there as a cultural fixture. And to not accept this fixture, to not play along, to not accept this inherited custom is thought to be anti-social.
To not accept any fixture of modern mainstream culture has the same consequences. Sports are no different. If you care what the mainstream world thinks of you, then are you truly a geek?
Furthermore, it's not as though others enjoying their sports harms you. Many people are lazy, boring, weak, stupid, or ignorant, and many people enjoy all manner of silly things. Why should you care what others do to enjoy themselves? Just enjoy the things you enjoy, and leave it at that.
If you don't either participate or cheer on those that do, you're automatically on the wrong side of the equation.
How do you figure? I find baseball to be excruciatingly boring, and generally avoid watching or caring about it. No one else in the world seems to care that I dislike it. There's no equation to even be on one side of: no one cares. What, will strangers jump out and ask me who won the "big game" last night, only to laugh when I don't know?
The ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Carthaginians, the Byzantines: they all believed in the importance of both the mindandthe body. To cultivate one at the expense of the other makes one less than whole. We are physical beings just as we are intellectual ones, and we would do ourselves a great disservice to abandon this.
Just because someone else --even someone as esteemed as the Greeks --did engage in the practice you're defending does not necessarily validate that act. But I do agree with you that physical activity is healthy.
Sports teach our youth about competition. They teach us both how to win and how to lose. They teach us teamwork. They teach us to deal with pain, hardship, and even humiliation. They sharpen both our minds and bodies, and make us stronger.
I don't agree. Yes, sports do acquaint SOME kids with losing and winning but so what? I can get that same disappointment at the chess table or at the quiz bowl. Teamwork? I can learn that in the Boy Scouts. Sports are not necessary to learn teamwork or leadership or hardship or humiliation. Sports are the refuge of the unlearned. When a person can't succeed in academics where does he go? Sports.
I am a geek. I play Dungeons and Dragons and computer games. I do a podcast and watch anime. I enjoy Chinese films and science fiction. I also am an avid biker, runner, and hiker. Just as I strive to improve myself mentally, I strive to improve myself physically. Despite all of this, I am still a geek.
Well, you sound like a well-rounded individual. I have similar interests. I love physical activity but I hate organized sports --beyond a friendly neighborhood softball game. Because it attracts the kind of crude, vulgar people who love to dominate others physically.
it's just there as a cultural fixture. And to not accept this fixture, to not play along, to not accept this inherited custom is thought to be anti-social.
To not accept any fixture of modern mainstream culture has the same consequences. Sports are no different. If you care what the mainstream world thinks of you, then are you truly a geek?
No, you can not say that. Sports are in a class all by itself and I think you know it. At work I'm the only guy who doesn't participate in the office football pool and I hear the snickers but I refuse to participate to just go along. Am I truly a geek? I never said I was.
Furthermore, it's not as though others enjoying their sports harms you. Many people are lazy, boring, weak, stupid, or ignorant, and many people enjoy all manner of silly things. Why should you care what others do to enjoy themselves? Just enjoy the thingsyouenjoy, and leave it at that.
Of course I would not care what other people do to amuse themselves. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But sports fans intrude into MY life every day with, "Did you see that game?", "How 'bout 'dem Bulls?". My awkward and obviously inappropriate responses have made me something of an oddball.
If you don't either participate or cheer on those that do, you're automatically on the wrong side of the equation.
How do you figure? I find baseball to be excruciatingly boring, and generally avoid watching or caring about it. No one else in the world seems to care that I dislike it. There's no equation to even be on one side of: no one cares. What, will strangers jump out and ask me who won the "big game" last night, only to laugh when I don't know? Yes!
Comments
Your statement was not part of your body of argument, and was mostly irrelevant. Apreche called you out on it. Apreche did not use this calling out as the basis of the argument. Something can only be called a logical fallacy if it is used as the (flawed) basis of an argument. Many things that are fallacies can still be used in a preponderance of evidence argument.
It also depends on what type of argument you are having (deductive versus inductive). The fallacy of appeal to authority, for example, is indeed a fallacy in certain deductive arguments, but can also be perfectly valid depending on the context of the statement.
More to the point, your argument is feeble and laughable. Your precedents beg the question. Your conclusions are specious. You fail to address rational disagreement properly. You decry others for making "ad hominem" arguments, yet have yourself never once presented a valid deductive statement, let alone a supported inductive one. You make rhetorical arguments, yet cry foul when others respond in kind.
Either make a deductive argument and play by the rules, make an inductive one and state your case, or make a rhetorical one and deal with the consequences. You're all over the place.
Also, if you agree that government should fund schools, then you must agree that that same government should regulate those schools. In any country in which people vote and pay taxes the majority theoretically rules. If that majority, even if by proxy, has decided that sport should be mandatory, you can not disagree. The only way you can argue that sport should not be mandatory in a government school is if most of the taxpayers agreed with you. They surely do not. If you want it to change, try to get the votes. I assure you, you will fail. See Rym's post. Passion is not the same as liking. Having passion for something means that it stirs up strong emotions in you. For example, the Stanley Cup is very capable of stirring up strong emotions in me. Passion for a sport means that the sport elicits strong emotions from within you. Nobody says you have to like those emotions. I did not say that everyone with passion and understanding for a sport necessarily enjoys it. I said that it is impossible to enjoy a sport without both understanding and passion. There is a big difference. It differs from person to person. Everyone finds passion in their own way. Personally, my passion for different sports has changed greatly over the years. But passion for sports is no different than passion for other things. How do you become passionate about video games? How do you become passionate about anime? It's just something you discover on your own.
If you want to try to like a sport the easiest way is to go to a sporting event, pick a team and hope they win. Think of it sort of like Pokemon. There is an arena in which a game is played. You are a Pokemaster and you must select a Pokemon to fight in this arena. If your Pokemon wins, you win. If your Pokemon loses, you lose. The team you are rooting for is your Pokemon. They are a representation of you on the battlefield as much as your avatar is a reprsentation of you in World of Warcraft. When they are doing well, you are happy. When they are doing poorly, you are frustrated. That's really what spectator sport is all about. See Rym again. Ok, just wow. The point of a private school is that it is a school which is not run by the government. A private school is no different, legally, than a private individual person. If you think it is ok for the goverment to tell private schools how to teach children, then you must agree it is ok for the government to tell parents how to raise their children. You must agree that the government should be allowed to make a law outlawing parents forcing kids to brush their teeth, eat or bathe.
As far as waiting lists, that's capitalism. If you want freedom, that's what you have to deal with.
As far as the rest of us are concerned, every aspect of your incredibly weak argument is contradictory and false. If you want to continue, I suggest you start again from the beginning. Here, I'll help you.
Your main point is that physical education should not be mandatory in public schools. Trust me, you want to limit it to public schools only. If you want to support that argument you have to answer a lot of things. Should any schooling be mandatory at all, why or why not? If any schooling at all is mandatory, which elements of schooling should be mandatory and why? If some schooling should be mandatory and physical education should not be, what makes physical education different from the other parts of education? Why is physical education so much less important than other areas of education that it should not be mandatory while other parts are?
Right now your entire argument, seriously, is whiny 2-year old argument. This is what you sound like to me:
"Mommy, I don't want to take the cough medicine, it tastes bad! Parents shouldn't be allowed to make kids take cough medicine. People shouldn't make me do something I don't want to do. The government is evil for forcing me to do something I don't like. Waaaah!"
I suggest you reply with something more intelligent.
/Finally, an inside joke I can be in on. Yeah!
//And what is it about posters with flame (or flamm, as the case may be) in their name? They just can't win the fights they start.
http://tinyurl.com/keobk
It's a quick read, and will provide you with a lot of ammunition for future arguments!
I say again if you were miserable playing sport after school sport at school you should have done something about it. There are private schools that allow students to get out of sport if they do another activity (not my school they were sport fascists) did you try to do something about it or did you just complain?
How to get a mention on geeknights
1.Have little or no comunication skills
2.try to debate
Sports teach our youth about competition. They teach us both how to win and how to lose. They teach us teamwork. They teach us to deal with pain, hardship, and even humiliation. They sharpen both our minds and bodies, and make us stronger.
I am a geek. I play Dungeons and Dragons and computer games. I do a podcast and watch anime. I enjoy Chinese films and science fiction. I also am an avid biker, runner, and hiker. Just as I strive to improve myself mentally, I strive to improve myself physically. Despite all of this, I am still a geek. To not accept any fixture of modern mainstream culture has the same consequences. Sports are no different. If you care what the mainstream world thinks of you, then are you truly a geek?
Furthermore, it's not as though others enjoying their sports harms you. Many people are lazy, boring, weak, stupid, or ignorant, and many people enjoy all manner of silly things. Why should you care what others do to enjoy themselves? Just enjoy the things you enjoy, and leave it at that. How do you figure? I find baseball to be excruciatingly boring, and generally avoid watching or caring about it. No one else in the world seems to care that I dislike it. There's no equation to even be on one side of: no one cares. What, will strangers jump out and ask me who won the "big game" last night, only to laugh when I don't know?
No, you can not say that. Sports are in a class all by itself and I think you know it. At work I'm the only guy who doesn't participate in the office football pool and I hear the snickers but I refuse to participate to just go along. Am I truly a geek? I never said I was.
Furthermore, it's not as though others enjoying their sports harms you. Many people are lazy, boring, weak, stupid, or ignorant, and many people enjoy all manner of silly things. Why should you care what others do to enjoy themselves? Just enjoy the thingsyouenjoy, and leave it at that.
Of course I would not care what other people do to amuse themselves. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But sports fans intrude into MY life every day with, "Did you see that game?", "How 'bout 'dem Bulls?". My awkward and obviously inappropriate responses have made me something of an oddball. How do you figure? I find baseball to be excruciatingly boring, and generally avoid watching or caring about it. No one else in the world seems to care that I dislike it. There's no equation to even be on one side of: no one cares. What, will strangers jump out and ask me who won the "big game" last night, only to laugh when I don't know?
Yes!