Please also note I am a straight, cis, heteronormative-as-fuck white-ass male. I know what cis means, and so would anyone else with three seconds of explanation, and it doesn't have the overt baggage of telling a person their existence is non-traditional.
But middle America won't listen to those three seconds because they're apathetic towards the cause. The idea is to get the so to speak "swing voters" to take up the cause, and they don't want to learn new language. We need to appeal to ignorance.
My problem with the use of the term is that the people who came up with it get offended and use it as a pejorative, and get frustrated with you when you don't know what it means.
I don't mind the term, and I don't necessarily think it needs to stop being used. My problem lies with the "Tumblr" mindset, wherein everyone who disagrees with you is obviously a flaming moron who received no education, and hopefully when they die so will their ideas. It's a refusal to teach and educate, and instead an insistence on anger, rage, and flame wars. They believe that if they get loud, angry, and belligerent, people will have to accept their social movement as being correct.
The term should be used after you teach and introduce people to the ideas of trans* theory, and then you can explain to them that a term exists to indicate people who follow their biological sexual identity rather than those who don't.
But throwing the term out constantly in certain circles is, admittedly, frustrating. I only say it here because I know that most of you will know what I mean, or Google it if you don't.
It seems to me a person who would say something "sounds queer" is probably beyond convincing in the first place. People like that don't come around until they're forced to interact with and regard someone with regular presence in their life, like a family member, as a human being.
I agree that people could frame their arguments more civilly, but I don't really fault those who don't, and I don't see why the solution is to let the lowest common denominator frame the conversation.
I think you can easily fault those who don't, even while understanding why they don't.
If you take a person who's uncomfortable with "alternative" gender roles, identities, lifestyles, etc, and then apply some odd sounding label to them that they've never heard of, you're going to put them on the defensive. I think further labeling such a person as beyond education borders on malicious.
Personally, I have found many effective ways to convey liberal gender politics to middle Americans whilst I float around in my giant balloon prophetizing my Big Brained And Educated liberal theories all across the fantasy earth.
I tell the uneducated unwashed masses all the smart things I learned in college and during my many years as a wikipedia contributor, and they look at me doe eyed and tear up a little bit, then I take them by the hand and lead them forever into the realm of liberal salvation amen.
This is a really weird conversation, you guys have already arrived at the solution but continue to argue.
You use the term "cisgendered" in this situation because the group of people interpret this correctly. However you wouldn't in casual conversations with the less educated unless you were speaking on the subject specifically.
It is the same thing that happens when I write up consult or surgical histories for patients, what I write is complete jargon to most laypeople but I need to write it this way because it is accurate and the only people that will be reading it are others who are educated enough to understand what I mean.
In consult however I have to translate everything to lay terms for most clients (sometimes even for medical doctors).
The "cis" in "cisgendered" makes me think of cysts.
I would recommend having any cyst that you have on your genitalia examined for appropriate treatment and to stop putting off a visit to your practitioner.
I've run into what Muppet describes. I've conversed with people who, the second I use the term "cis" (even with an immediate, concise definition for purposes of discussion), IMMEDIATELY become hostile, defensive MRAs.
Fedoras literally pop out of their heads. It's like a magic spell. POWER WORD FEDORA.
Granted, I've long since given up. People who are offended or defensive in the presence of adult conversation with grown-up words aren't worth consideration any more. You may have a more generous heart, ye who argue with them, but my heart is hardened.
The "cis" in "cisgendered" makes me think of cysts.
I have the same problem!
I think the issue with cis, is that you are adding a descriptor to something that never was or needed to be described to most people since before it was just "normal" to them with everything else needing descriptors. You are always going to run into issues with the majority if you suddenly make them sound less like a Majority in the way you talk about them, see White people, Christians and men (even though they all are not majorities anymore :-p).
Well on the flip side you've got intensely hostile and angry activists who would as soon spit on you as look at you, and believe that traditional *anything* is worthy of ridicule and easily discarded, and even though they're, I'm sure, a small minority, their message gets through at least as well as the core principles (of various topics) because they're loud and angry about it.
So... people shying away from that if it's what they've primarily been exposed to... not so hard to understand.
In conclusion, people just need to stop being complete assholes.
Anyways, at the very least we should continue to use the prefix cis- here, because it's the commonly-used word to describe someone whose sex and gender identity match, and all of you fuckers know that by now. When engaging in discussion with laypeople, we can and should teach them the word so that we can use it with them as well.
Yeah. Linkigi is not particularly well known for being able to draw people in with his kind and delicate persuasion.
But it's a perfect indication of the phenomenon I mentioned. Sad part is, Linkigi's post is a LOT better than some of the stuff I see on Tumblr and Twitter. These people are so hostile that it's a wonder any of THEIR FRIENDS agree with them. Usually, when someone spends 9/10 of something insulting me, I tend not to be able to see their main point.
But it's a perfect indication of the phenomenon I mentioned. Sad part is, Linkigi's post is a LOT better than some of the stuff I see on Tumblr and Twitter.
For a start, he knows how to actually use the word correctly.
The "cis" in "cisgendered" makes me think of cysts.
I know what you mean (in the Deen Learner voice).
I don't know if this is more of a UK thing but the people I've spoken to about it both at home and at uni seem to just boil it down to what gener they want to be identified as and leave it at that. Im Dan the male in the same way that my friend Dave is, who used to be called Samantha. I unterstand the need in some cases, or what might be a better word, for the term cisgender but I always felt it was counter intuative. You are you and what ever you want to be, man, woman or some form of third sex, but we all know how that ends don't we. Player of games "wink wink"
Edit, also I got shouted at work by one of the people that I work with for being lazy and unproffessional, this is after I have won employee of the month having only been here for two. This is the same guy that sleeps for five hours at work so I shouldn't really be suppriesed.
Well, apparently that post was interpreted as being a lot angrier than I intended it to be.
Welcome to the internet, dude.
As a side note, I've noticed that if someone respond to aggression with aggression, they're super mad. If they respond without aggression, they're being smug and/or sarcastic. There's no middle ground there. There's no such thing as responding to aggression without aggression, nobody is allowed to be chilled out and nice(or at least calm) on the internet. Turning the other cheek is never an option.
I find it hilarious that you consider Linkigi as being abrasive about this. Had I made it to the thread first, he'd have been the voice of reason to counterbalance the torrent of pure rage I would have unleashed. Lemme see if I can work up some of that now.
Guess what, motherfucker? If you are okay with the term "straight" and not okay with the term "cis", then you are straight up a hypocrite and a transphobic shitstain. And if you have a problem with "straight" too, you can trade the hypocrite bit in for some quality homophobia. Would you like fries with that, dickwaffle?
Seriously though, lol @ the whole idea of needing to ditch a perfectly reasonable and actually pretty useful piece of terminology to appeal to "middle america". Fuck middle america. We're already waiting for those assholes to die so young hip people can replace them on issues like the internet, privacy, national defense and the economy, we can wait for them to die on this shit, too. The baby boomer generation has had the world revolve around them ever since they were the two and a half kids. The last thing we need to do is cater to them some more.
Besides, appealing to "middle america" has done the same thing for every single civil rights movement ever; throwing a whole chunk of folks under the bus because middle america finds them distasteful in exchange for token noises. It happened with Civil Rights as Jim Crow was just replaced with more neutrally-worded drug laws, it happened with feminism when the ERA failed to be ratified, and it's already happened to the T part of LGBT as the rush for marriage equality comes with a desperate attempt to hide all the queer folks who don't match the comfortable stereotypes and might make people question their comfortable little binary.
Appealing to bigots just trades progress for symbolic victory and acceptance for "tolerance". Fuck that noise.
Yeah, you I've learned to ignore on this topic. You're beyond obsessive, bordering on manic, whenever gender issues come up.
I'm not arguing for appealing to middle America as a core strategy, just that you can't convert people with a sword.
Also, we were talking about people who may not be familiar with terminology like cis-gendered, which may include bigots, but bigots would be a subset of those people, so your response... has issues.
Yeah, you I've learned to ignore on this topic. You're beyond obsessive, bordering on manic, whenever gender issues come up.
I'm not arguing for appealing to middle America as a core strategy, just that you can't convert people with a sword.
Also, we were talking about people who may not be familiar with terminology like cis-gendered, which may include bigots, but bigots would be a subset of those people, so your response... has issues.
If you need to try and "convert" a person, they are probably beyond actually bringing around to your viewpoint. A reasonable, adult person should be able to grasp "cis is to trans as straight is to gay" without further clarification needed. If they can't manage that or they need to take some ridiculous stand on the issue, than they are basically not worth interacting with.
Comments
I don't mind the term, and I don't necessarily think it needs to stop being used. My problem lies with the "Tumblr" mindset, wherein everyone who disagrees with you is obviously a flaming moron who received no education, and hopefully when they die so will their ideas. It's a refusal to teach and educate, and instead an insistence on anger, rage, and flame wars. They believe that if they get loud, angry, and belligerent, people will have to accept their social movement as being correct.
The term should be used after you teach and introduce people to the ideas of trans* theory, and then you can explain to them that a term exists to indicate people who follow their biological sexual identity rather than those who don't.
But throwing the term out constantly in certain circles is, admittedly, frustrating. I only say it here because I know that most of you will know what I mean, or Google it if you don't.
I agree that people could frame their arguments more civilly, but I don't really fault those who don't, and I don't see why the solution is to let the lowest common denominator frame the conversation.
If you take a person who's uncomfortable with "alternative" gender roles, identities, lifestyles, etc, and then apply some odd sounding label to them that they've never heard of, you're going to put them on the defensive. I think further labeling such a person as beyond education borders on malicious.
You use the term "cisgendered" in this situation because the group of people interpret this correctly.
However you wouldn't in casual conversations with the less educated unless you were speaking on the subject specifically.
It is the same thing that happens when I write up consult or surgical histories for patients, what I write is complete jargon to most laypeople but I need to write it this way because it is accurate and the only people that will be reading it are others who are educated enough to understand what I mean.
In consult however I have to translate everything to lay terms for most clients (sometimes even for medical doctors). I would recommend having any cyst that you have on your genitalia examined for appropriate treatment and to stop putting off a visit to your practitioner.
Fedoras literally pop out of their heads. It's like a magic spell. POWER WORD FEDORA.
Granted, I've long since given up. People who are offended or defensive in the presence of adult conversation with grown-up words aren't worth consideration any more. You may have a more generous heart, ye who argue with them, but my heart is hardened.
I think the issue with cis, is that you are adding a descriptor to something that never was or needed to be described to most people since before it was just "normal" to them with everything else needing descriptors. You are always going to run into issues with the majority if you suddenly make them sound less like a Majority in the way you talk about them, see White people, Christians and men (even though they all are not majorities anymore :-p).
So... people shying away from that if it's what they've primarily been exposed to... not so hard to understand.
In conclusion, people just need to stop being complete assholes.
But it's a perfect indication of the phenomenon I mentioned. Sad part is, Linkigi's post is a LOT better than some of the stuff I see on Tumblr and Twitter. These people are so hostile that it's a wonder any of THEIR FRIENDS agree with them. Usually, when someone spends 9/10 of something insulting me, I tend not to be able to see their main point.
I don't know if this is more of a UK thing but the people I've spoken to about it both at home and at uni seem to just boil it down to what gener they want to be identified as and leave it at that. Im Dan the male in the same way that my friend Dave is, who used to be called Samantha. I unterstand the need in some cases, or what might be a better word, for the term cisgender but I always felt it was counter intuative. You are you and what ever you want to be, man, woman or some form of third sex, but we all know how that ends don't we. Player of games "wink wink"
Edit, also I got shouted at work by one of the people that I work with for being lazy and unproffessional, this is after I have won employee of the month having only been here for two. This is the same guy that sleeps for five hours at work so I shouldn't really be suppriesed.
As a side note, I've noticed that if someone respond to aggression with aggression, they're super mad. If they respond without aggression, they're being smug and/or sarcastic. There's no middle ground there. There's no such thing as responding to aggression without aggression, nobody is allowed to be chilled out and nice(or at least calm) on the internet. Turning the other cheek is never an option.
I'm not arguing for appealing to middle America as a core strategy, just that you can't convert people with a sword.
Also, we were talking about people who may not be familiar with terminology like cis-gendered, which may include bigots, but bigots would be a subset of those people, so your response... has issues.