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Define "God"
I've been reading lately about theological noncognitivism and verificationism. The basic premises of these philosophies are that God as a label is meaningless, and that terms applied to God can't be independently verified; therefore talking about "God" is meaningless.
Scrym have embargoed religious discussions about proving or disproving God until someone successfully addresses the Flying Spaghetti Monster question. But I think, in accordance with the aforementioned philosophies, that the strictures should be even more confining. Not only should believers answer the FSM dilemma, but they should first be forced to offer a definition of God that withstands critical thinking.
So I invite you, believers - be you Christians, Muslims, Jews, followers of the Great Spirit, Hindus, or otherwise - please define what you mean by "God." This is an academic exercise. It is not intended to be a trap. I just want to see what it is you really believe, and if it's quantifiable in any way.
I will say this: It's irrational to claim that you believe in a God that cannot be understood. To say that God is ineffable or that it exists on a plane so different from our own that he cannot be described... well, that type of an answer is a real cop-out. Seeking cover under the umbrella of that answer raises the question of how you know it to be so.
So describe for me, if you will, what is God.
Scrym have embargoed religious discussions about proving or disproving God until someone successfully addresses the Flying Spaghetti Monster question. But I think, in accordance with the aforementioned philosophies, that the strictures should be even more confining. Not only should believers answer the FSM dilemma, but they should first be forced to offer a definition of God that withstands critical thinking.
So I invite you, believers - be you Christians, Muslims, Jews, followers of the Great Spirit, Hindus, or otherwise - please define what you mean by "God." This is an academic exercise. It is not intended to be a trap. I just want to see what it is you really believe, and if it's quantifiable in any way.
I will say this: It's irrational to claim that you believe in a God that cannot be understood. To say that God is ineffable or that it exists on a plane so different from our own that he cannot be described... well, that type of an answer is a real cop-out. Seeking cover under the umbrella of that answer raises the question of how you know it to be so.
So describe for me, if you will, what is God.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
If you define god as something comprehensible, then you've really got two options.
One option is to equate god with something that is understood. For example, you could say that god is love, or that god is free will. In that case, you're sort of making something akin to a no true Scotsman argument. In the same way that someone might say baseball isn't a sport, football is a sport! You're saying sadness isn't god, love is god! You're just using language to try to add emotional power to a philosophical and emotional concept.
If you define god as anything else comprehensible, the flying spaghetti monster will come to get you. God is an invisible humanoid being? God is a who was crucified in Rome? God is an "energy" that permeates life? God is a personal god, aka your imaginary friend. God is a snake with 40 heads? Thank you, come again.
If you want me to further clarify then keep on posting. My vidergames are patching, and I'm bored.
While I don't believe in God myself, I can see how this sort of figure would be appealing to have.
But magic doesn't have any real meaning. It's a god-of-the-gaps word. It means any nebulous thing to which another label does not apply.
God is much the same, according to the verificationists.
A text message, while most people do not fully understand it, is comprehensible. There are people who exist who do understand it. With sufficient study, most people can come to understand it as well. The argument for god is that it is incomprehensible. That is no matter what you do, it is impossible to understand it. If god were comprehensible, as opposed to simply being not yet comprehended, then we could subject it to scientific processes, and the FSM comes into play. If god were incomprehensible, then as I said before, it is a completely arbitrary existence that can not have any influence on any decision making process.
I know that feels like a false dichotomy, but it's just a real dichotomy. Maybe someone could argue that god is partially comprehensible. Somehow we understand that it wants us to pray, but we don't understand other parts. Well, maybe that part you don't understand actually is just manipulating you, and praying is bad? You don't know. If god is in any part incomprehensible, then it is effectively incomprehensible in its entirety.
Just to drive that point home. Imagine if you are playing a board game. However, one of the rules of the board game is a secret. You have the whole rule book, but one rule is missing. In that case, any decision you make in the game is arbitrary. Let's say the first rule in the game says that whoever has the most money wins. Well, the secret rule could actually say to disregard that rule, and actually whoever has the least money wins.
For humans an incomprehensible god existing is effectively identical to no god existing. A comprehensible god, existing or not, is no different than a flying spaghetti monster.
Just a thought and what I personally believe.
You can either be the wisest hermit in the world or have a devout cult who will do your every bidding. Which do you choose?
By wisest, I do not mean infinitely wise.
Actually, would Catholicism count as a cult?
In terms of irrational beliefs, though, they're about the same.
Also, I would like to hear more of what religious people believe. I have arguments with my dad sometimes about religion, and he constantly makes the "'Real' Christians [Scotsmen] don't actually believe in a magical sky-man; that would be crazy!" argument. When I try to get him to define "god", he basically makes the "natural energy" argument. Suffice to say, this is somewhat infuriating.