Are you trying to show a moral equivalence between torturing that involves physical mutilation and beheading with slamming someone up against a wall or locking them in a confined space?
Would you do it to a dog?
Many people do lock their dogs in a small confined space. There is a whole market out there that specializes in dog cages.
That isn't the question you were asked. The question you were asked is would you do that?
Why don't you just say it, Steve? It's pretty obvious what you're advocating. Why don't you just admit that you think that torture is good policy? Are you afraid of saying what you believe?
BTW, your picture of a kennel is a fail. There are reasons that dogs need to be kennelled that have nothing to do with punishment and certainly nothing to do with torture, including but not limited to protection while travelling, training, protection from other animals in the house, protection for people who might visit your house, and so forth. Also, dogs have an instinct to seek out a den. If you put a blanket or a pad down in a kennel like the one you showed, a dog will, more likely than not, actually prefer to stay in the kennel if he feels uneasy about something like, for instance, when the vacuum vleaner is running. Kennelling a dog is in no way equivalent to confining a person. Additionally, mere confinement was not the issue. If you wanted to be intellectually honest about your comparison between a dog's kennel and the torture described in the memos, you would need to lock the dog in the kennel with something he greatly feared would do him harm. Is that what you propose to do?
Many people do lock their dogs in a small confined space.
But people shouldn't beat their dogs, hold them underwater for prolonged periods of time, shove things into their fingernails, slam them into walls, put them in stress positions, deny them sleep, or force them to stand for days.
As Joe also stated, there are reasons to put a dog in a kennel that are not related to punishment.
Additionally, we've been using a kennel for our two dogs for weeks now, but they still won't admit to destroying the picnic basket or pooping on the carpet. Surprisingly, they've told us that Iraq and Al-Quaeda are a united front in Afghanistan, but only after getting a training treat.
Why don't you just say it, Steve? It's pretty obvious what you're advocating. Why don't you just admit that you think that torture is good policy? Are you afraid of saying what you believe?
Still going with the assumptions? Why do you find it so hard to believe that someone might put forth a point of view (that they themselves do not hold) just to see where the discussion leads?
This forum would be awful boring if everyone agreed all the time and never challenged other people's arguments.
Additionally, we've been using a kennel for our two dogs for weeks now, but they still won't admit to destroying the picnic basket or pooping on the carpet. Surprisingly, they've told us that Iraq and Al-Quaeda are a united front in Afghanistan, but only after getting a training treat.
They did that shit at Waco, too. Also, having recently watched A Clockwork Orange for the first time, I can see exactly how that sort of thing could destroy someone.
I was ridiculed earlier for saying that the law was weak to the point that nobody would be prosecuted. I'm just checking in to see how Obama is coming along with the prosecutions.
I was ridiculed earlier for saying that the law was weak to the point that nobody would be prosecuted. I'm just checking in to see how Obama is coming along with the prosecutions.
Amusingly enough, there is a private boy's school back home nicknamed "Churchie" whose inmates have a reputation for being somewhat...alternative in their sexual lifestyle.
I was ridiculed earlier for saying that the law was weak to the point that nobody would be prosecuted. I'm just checking in to see how Obama is coming along with the prosecutions.
Your cynicism was, as it often is, warranted. ^_~
Just having a little fun. I'm frustrated at the result, but not surprised one bit.
So, certain Republicans are claiming that "enhanced interrogation" (i.e., torture) is the way we found Osama bin Laden. Frankly, in my opinion, if this were in fact true, then it wasn't worth it.
We don't torture, but torture is totally the way the got the information to catch bin Laden.
Don't worry, those Rethuglicans are lying through their teeth. And as my sarcastic comment is meant to illustrate, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
At least John McCain is being intellectually honest about torture on the Republican side. Of course, given how he himself was tortured in 'Nam, he probably has a vastly different view than the average Republican chicken hawk.
At least John McCain is being intellectually honest about torture on the Republican side. Of course, given how he himself was tortured in 'Nam, he probably has a vastly different view than the average Republican chicken hawk.
Sadly it's the only position McCain has kept constantly from 2000 that I respect....
Back in February, NPR had a great interview with a military interrogator who said that "harsher" interrogation techniques aren't as effective as actually being nice and polite to people.
This is the guy who led the interrogation team that tracked down al-Qaida leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 2006, so he knows what he's talking about.
I'll have to say that, when I started this thread, I was hoping that the whole torture thing would be a thing of the past along with the Bush Administration. I was also hoping that Bush Administration people would actually be prosecuted for allowing torture. What I got was people still debating whether waterboarding is torture. I am very disappoint, and I am very sad that my hopes were crushed.
I'll have to say that, when I started this thread, I was hoping that the whole torture thing would be a thing of the past along with the Bush Administration. I was also hoping that Bush Administration people would actually be prosecuted for allowing torture. What I got was people still debating whether waterboarding is torture. I am very disappoint, and I am very sad that my hopes were crushed.
At least John McCain is being intellectually honest about torture on the Republican side. Of course, given how he himself was tortured in 'Nam, he probably has a vastly different view than the average Republican chicken hawk.
Sadly it's the only position McCain has kept constantly from 2000 that I respect....
Same here, pretty much. I guess he's just as willing to pander to the wing nuts in most cases but absolutely draws the line at torture, given how he's an actual vet who's been tortured.
So, certain Republicans are claiming that "enhanced interrogation" (i.e., torture) is the way we found Osama bin Laden. Frankly, in my opinion, if this were in fact true, then it wasn't worth it.
I agree, but even Donald Rumsfeld himself has come out and said that's not the case. I don't trust Rummy as far as I could throw him, but there it is.
I think that, in order to make any statement that approves of waterboarding, you should first have to be waterboarded. Then you can say whatever you like.
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BTW, your picture of a kennel is a fail. There are reasons that dogs need to be kennelled that have nothing to do with punishment and certainly nothing to do with torture, including but not limited to protection while travelling, training, protection from other animals in the house, protection for people who might visit your house, and so forth. Also, dogs have an instinct to seek out a den. If you put a blanket or a pad down in a kennel like the one you showed, a dog will, more likely than not, actually prefer to stay in the kennel if he feels uneasy about something like, for instance, when the vacuum vleaner is running. Kennelling a dog is in no way equivalent to confining a person. Additionally, mere confinement was not the issue. If you wanted to be intellectually honest about your comparison between a dog's kennel and the torture described in the memos, you would need to lock the dog in the kennel with something he greatly feared would do him harm. Is that what you propose to do?
As Joe also stated, there are reasons to put a dog in a kennel that are not related to punishment.
Additionally, we've been using a kennel for our two dogs for weeks now, but they still won't admit to destroying the picnic basket or pooping on the carpet. Surprisingly, they've told us that Iraq and Al-Quaeda are a united front in Afghanistan, but only after getting a training treat.
This forum would be awful boring if everyone agreed all the time and never challenged other people's arguments.
Also, I wonder what Zach De La Rocha thinks of this, and if he could sue for improper use of RATM's IP.
Don't worry, those Rethuglicans are lying through their teeth. And as my sarcastic comment is meant to illustrate, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
Why is it that it took two MORE years to nab him?
Seriously?!?
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This is the guy who led the interrogation team that tracked down al-Qaida leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 2006, so he knows what he's talking about.
Great interview if you're interested.
I think that, in order to make any statement that approves of waterboarding, you should first have to be waterboarded. Then you can say whatever you like.