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Gays on XBox Live

AprecheApreche
edited February 2009 in Everything Else
Check this out. Apparently Microsoft wants to remove all gayness from XBox Live. Not looking too good for them.

The real problem here is this. It is incredibly difficult and subjective to tell apart actual gay people from anti-gay people in this context. Let's say someone's gamertag is faggyboy. How do you tell if it is some lighthearted self-deprecating humor, or if it is homophobic? Let's say someone's gamertag is superkike, is it anti-semitism or an actual Jew being silly?

Microsoft wants to keep offensive content off of XBL, and it's easy to see why. XBL is plagued with the same shitcockery that PC games have been plagued with for years, and it hurts Microsoft. Normal people who get on XBL are incredibly turned off by the shitcock community, and it makes Microsoft look bad. Their solution is to ban anything that other users find offensive, which seems ok, but a system like that can itself be abused.

They can't let the shitcocks roam free because it will ruin the service. Then again, they can't get rid of them, because they will be forced to make unfair subjective decisions about what is and is not offensive. We can already see what the results are if you let users decide what is offensive.
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Comments

  • ninjarabbininjarabbi
    Am I the only one that read this thread title and thought it meant Scrym bought an Xbox?
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    I can get that people use the word gay in a derogatory sense like saying an ugly sweater is "gay" or that they are homophobic and think that being gay is bad, but why would Microsoft ban something like that. I find people waiving their religion around a bit offensive, but that doesn't mean the GamerForJesus or JesusFreak798 should be banned from using their name. Xbox Live should be banning or suspending people that harass gamers - regardless of the justification for that harassment.
  • ninjarabbininjarabbi
    edited February 2009
    I can get that people use the word gay in a derogatory sense like saying an ugly sweater is "gay"
    I need to stop saying that. Even though I'm not homophobic, I still say that sometimes. It's probably because I live in a small town with many closed-minded people who say that all the time.

    I think they should just have "explicit" servers and "clean" servers and if someone swears all of the time on a clean server, then just temporarily ban them from that server.Ideally I wouldn't want censorship but if we have to then at least make it so that there are non-censored areas. As for the name problem, I think they should just not let certain words be in the user-names.
    Post edited by ninjarabbi on
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    edited February 2009
    I can get that people use the word gay in a derogatory sense like saying an ugly sweater is "gay"
    I need to stop saying that. Even though I'm not homophobic, I still say that sometimes. It's probably because I live in a small town with many closed-minded people who say that all the time.
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids, but the whole point of sending them to school is to teach them lessons. If you say bigoted things (even if you are not a bigot, just ignorant) then you should be called out.
    EDIT: Is the term "Calling a spade a spade" a racist thing? Was "spade" used as a racial slur?
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • RymRym
    Was "spade" used as a racial slur?
    It was, at least in Michigan. "Black as the Ace of Spades" and all that. "Spade" was the word old, slightly-less-racist-than-the-rest-but-racist-nonetheless bigots used in place of "nigger" while I was growing up.
  • ninjarabbininjarabbi
    edited February 2009
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids, but the whole point of sending them to school is to teach them lessons.
    Correct them as much as possible. It always pissed me off that it is supposedly rude to correct someone. If they aren't corrected then they will always be wrong! One thing that always aggravates me is when people pronounce Italian "eye-talian." I don't know how widespread this mispronunciation is, but it still pisses me off.
    Post edited by ninjarabbi on
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    "Widespread" is one word.
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited February 2009
    JesusFreak798
    God, that was a terrible metal song. Seriously, I'd ask for bans on Xbox live based just on how terrible that song truly is.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • AprecheApreche
    "Widespread" is one word.
    It is also two words, but it means something different.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    My correction was relevant, correct and funny.
  • StarfoxStarfox
    EDIT: Is the term "Calling a spade a spade" a racist thing? Was "spade" used as a racial slur?
    According to Wiki, the phrase predates the slur. However, the source isn't clickable, so take that as you will.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids,
    If you view them as "just dumb kids", I hope that you think things over before entering the field.

    I understand your point - that they are developing socially, but be careful how you phrase things. Ironically enough, you did something that you would have chastised a child for.
  • IrascibleIrascible
    While I applaud Microsoft for wanting to take action against the shitcocks on Xbox Live there doesn't seem to be any fair or objective way to rule what is offensive behaviour and what isn't, especially when religious gamer names get involved because while I am against religion is someone wants to call themselves Jesus4evar or AllahSupreme I don't find that offensive but I'm sure there are people who find one or both of those names offensive.

    The only outcomes I see is this fails spectacularly or Microsoft becomes the King shitcock and pisses everyone off.
  • CremlianCremlian
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids, but the whole point of sending them to school is to teach them lessons. If you say bigoted things (even if you are not a bigot, just ignorant) then you should be called out.
    That's kinda gay.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    Does anyone else think that if MS were to ban homophobes from Xbox Live, they'd loose a significant percentage of their user-base?
  • VhdbloodVhdblood
    edited February 2009
    I can get that people use the word gay in a derogatory sense like saying an ugly sweater is "gay"
    I need to stop saying that. Even though I'm not homophobic, I still say that sometimes. It's probably because I live in a small town with many closed-minded people who say that all the time.
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids, but the whole point of sending them to school is to teach them lessons. If you say bigoted things (even if you are not a bigot, just ignorant) then you should be called out.
    This is a situation I am 50/50 on. This is an issue between free speech and personal values. Just because you think gay is derogatory, doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to say it. I'm leaning towards the fact that the parents should be teaching values, schools should be teaching education. (Edit: Also, just because some parents neglect to teach proper uses of some words doesn't mean you get to instruct them on how they are used, imho.)

    I think this all comes back to my view that words are words. They are only offensive if you take them that way. Just because the media has portrayed the word as bad, doesn't mean that it is, and it doesn't mean you can instruct anyone on the way to use it, especially in a publicly funded school classroom.
    Post edited by Vhdblood on
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    There is no such thing as free speech in schools. That would be a really bad idea.
  • IrascibleIrascible
    There is no such thing as free speech in schools. That would be a really bad idea.
    Almost as bad as telling school children that they're all special and talented
  • MamathMamath

    Almost as bad as telling school children that they're all special and talented
    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what? Telling children they are special and talented can indeed be bad.
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids,
    If you view them as "just dumb kids", I hope that you think things over before entering the field.

    I understand your point - that they are developing socially, but be careful how you phrase things. Ironically enough, you did something that you would have chastised a child for.
    That's unfair. I think we can all agree that kids are pretty "dumb". They're also very intelligent and they are developing adults etc BUT they totally do the dumbest things. I think it was pretty clear how Mrs. Macross meant that phrase.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids, but the whole point of sending them to school is to teach them lessons. If you say bigoted things (even if you are not a bigot, just ignorant) then you should be called out.
    That's kinda gay.
    Your mom's kinda gay.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids,
    If you view them as "just dumb kids", I hope that you think things over before entering the field.

    I understand your point - that they are developing socially, but be careful how you phrase things. Ironically enough, you did something that you would have chastised a child for.
    By saying "just dumb kids" I meant they would mean no harm because they were using terms whose ramifications in the greater world they did not understand (they are often naive and ignorant, but perfectly capable of learning - that is the point of education). I wouldn't be as passionate about education as I am if I thought that children were incapable of higher thought and reasoning. If I felt that way, I would never want to have children, let alone teach the children of others.
  • JasonJason
    I can get that people use the word gay in a derogatory sense like saying an ugly sweater is "gay"
    I need to stop saying that. Even though I'm not homophobic, I still say that sometimes. It's probably because I live in a small town with many closed-minded people who say that all the time.
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids, but the whole point of sending them to school is to teach them lessons. If you say bigoted things (even if you are not a bigot, just ignorant) then you should be called out.
    This is a situation I am 50/50 on. This is an issue between free speech and personal values. Just because you think gay is derogatory, doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to say it. I'm leaning towards the fact that the parents should be teaching values, schools should be teaching education. (Edit: Also, just because some parents neglect to teach proper uses of some words doesn't mean you get to instruct them on how they are used, imho.)

    I think this all comes back to my view that words are words. They are only offensive if you take them that way. Just because the media has portrayed the word as bad, doesn't mean that it is, and it doesn't mean you can instruct anyone on the way to use it, especially in a publicly funded school classroom.
    I agree. I have a problem with state-enforced morality. In Jasonland, there would be no restrictions on expression in school unless it presents a physical danger. But Mrs. Macross and I have clashed on that before, in another thread. :D
  • IrascibleIrascible

    Almost as bad as telling school children that they're all special and talented
    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what? Telling children they are special and talented can indeed be bad.
    When I start teaching, I will call out students that use the word gay in that way and embarrass them. I know they are just dumb kids,
    If you view them as "just dumb kids", I hope that you think things over before entering the field.

    I understand your point - that they are developing socially, but be careful how you phrase things. Ironically enough, you did something that you would have chastised a child for.
    That's unfair. I think we can all agree that kids are pretty "dumb". They're also very intelligent and they are developing adults etc BUT they totally do the dumbest things. I think it was pretty clear how Mrs. Macross meant that phrase.
    I wasn't being sarcastic, children will do anything they want and act like pillocks if they believe they are entitled to it by virtue of being 'special'
  • KilarneyKilarney
    By saying "just dumb kids" I meant they would mean no harm because they were using terms whose ramifications in the greater world they did not understand (they are often naive and ignorant, but perfectly capable of learning - that is the point of education). I wouldn't be as passionate about education as I am if I thought that children were incapable of higher thought and reasoning. If I felt that way, I would never want to have children, let alone teach the children of others.
    I know what you meant, and I don't doubt your sincerity. I just don't think a teacher should refer to kids that way. It's a slippery slope to becoming the bitter 55 year old teacher that hates his or her job and shows it. ;-)
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    By saying "just dumb kids" I meant they would mean no harm because they were using terms whose ramifications in the greater world they did not understand (they are often naive and ignorant, but perfectly capable of learning - that is the point of education). I wouldn't be as passionate about education as I am if I thought that children were incapable of higher thought and reasoning. If I felt that way, I would never want to have children, let alone teach the children of others.
    I know what you meant, and I don't doubt your sincerity. I just don't think a teacher should refer to kids that way. It's a slippery slope to becoming the bitter 55 year old teacher that hates his or her job and shows it. ;-)
    Not a teacher yet, just a student. Also, you need to view students with a bit of humor or else you become bitter. Tone of voice is everything and it doesn't exist in a text forum. I love my dog, Malcolm, but I still refer to him as a "dumb dog" in a loving tone whenever he does something exasperating so that I can keep it light and not get mad over small stuff.

    @Jason: Students can say whatever they want and do whatever they want my class room, but every choice has consequences. If they use bigoted terms (whether it is "f*g" or "n***er"), there will be specific consequences.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    Students can say whatever they want and do whatever they want my class room, but every choice has consequences. If they use bigoted terms (whether it is "f*g" or "n***er"), there will be specific consequences.
    Can you flesh this out a little more? That's like saying: "Students can do whatever they want, including assaulting other students. They just need to understand that there will be consequences."

    Surely there are some things that will be forbidden prima facie, and that policy will be made clear at the outset, no? I'm thinking of things like hate speech. If there is a policy against this, then there isn't freedom of speech. Sure, a kid can blurt something out and suffer a corresponding punishment, but that doesn't equate to free speech.

    I don't have a problem with this. We don't have free speech in our society. There are restrictions. You can't yell "fire!" in a theater. Why should the classroom be any different?
  • AprecheApreche
    edited February 2009

    I don't have a problem with this. We don't have free speech in our society. There are restrictions. You can't yell "fire!" in a theater. Why should the classroom be any different?
    I agree. Why should the classroom be different? There is currently less free speech in schools than there is in the rest of society, and it isn't right. The same free speech that we get out on the street should be the same free speech kids get in the hallways. Doing anything else is unjust and hypocritical. Kids detect that, and that is the source of the rebellious nature of youth.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • ninjarabbininjarabbi
    edited February 2009
    I don't have a problem with this. We don't have free speech in our society. There are restrictions. You can't yell "fire!" in a theater. Why should the classroom be any different?
    I don't know where you are, so I don't know your laws, but I think even in places with completely free speech you can't do that. It's probably called, "misleading the public" or something like that.
    Post edited by ninjarabbi on
  • KilarneyKilarney
    but I think even in places with completely free speech you can't do that. It's probably called, "misleading the public" or something like that.
    That was my point. Even in the US, where we celebrate our constitutional right to free speech, we don't have entirely free speech. And that's okay. I just don't see why a classroom is deserving of 100% free speech when adult society doesn't get that same treatment (for good reasons).
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    edited February 2009
    Students can say whatever they want and do whatever they want my class room, but every choice has consequences. If they use bigoted terms (whether it is "f*g" or "n***er"), there will be specific consequences.
    Can you flesh this out a little more? That's like saying: "Students can do whatever they want, including assaulting other students. They just need to understand that there will be consequences."

    Surely there are some things that will be forbidden prima facie, and that policy will be made clear at the outset, no? I'm thinking of things like hate speech. If there is a policy against this, then there isn't freedom of speech. Sure, a kid can blurt something out and suffer a corresponding punishment, but that doesn't equate to free speech.

    I don't have a problem with this. We don't have free speech in our society. There are restrictions. You can't yell "fire!" in a theater. Why should the classroom be any different?
    While there will be rules and restrictions, people can and do deviate from those restrictions. If they choose to do so, then there are subject to the consequences. While there may be no particular rule against homosexual slurs in the school, I have free reign in my classroom to point out bigotry and make students account for it.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
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