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The Total War Series

edited March 2009 in Video Games
Anyone picking this game up today? I've played the demo and it's pretty hot. It's been my dream to play a rank and file Napoleonic era game.
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Comments

  • I haven't picked it up, but my friend did (he pre-ordered it) and he says it's pretty good
  • Real-time naval battles
    One of my gripes with Rome: Total War was that one could not fight the naval battles themselves. I thoroughly enjoyed R:TW. I cannot see how this game could not be enjoyed.
  • I find the RTS section of the game to be quite clunky. I've never been able to handle the controls back in M:TW and they still aren't good after I tried the M: TW 2 demo. If there's a demo for this game, I would like to try it out and see if anything has changed. Otherwise, it's just not that good.
  • I find the RTS section of the game to be quite clunky. I've never been able to handle the controls back in M:TW and they still aren't good after I tried the M: TW 2 demo. If there's a demo for this game, I would like to try it out and see if anything has changed. Otherwise, it's just not that good.
    I agree. I tried out the demo, and the RTS part was terrible. You could barely control your dudes, and they all acted really stupidly.
  • I agree. I tried out the demo, and the RTS part was terrible. You could barely control your dudes, and they all acted really stupidly.
    Then why did I and many others have no trouble with the gameplay? I guess you FPS kids can't handle it, Andrew excepted, of course.

    Anyway, I have the game, it is very different from the other games in the series, as far as the grand strategy portion goes. In many ways it is a vast improvement - there are some great changes, such as no more moving diplomats around, diplomacy is instantaneous, just like Civ 4. In fact, the whole game feels very Civ 4-like. And you can pick your own generals now, rather than being forced to rely on the inbred cousin of the king to lead your army because he was the only guy around. So, you can think of it as Civ 4, set between 1700 and 1750 (I think... may be 1800), and you get to play out the land and sea battles in real time. I think I'm going to like it.

    And a word of warning to potential Steam buyers - it's an over 10GB download. It tore my 40GB per month download cap a new arsehole.
  • I've enjoyed Medieval: Total War 2 for some time now, although I couldn't get my hands on the expansion. I imagine that, if my PC can handle it, I may pick this game up eventually. It looks pretty hot.
  • edited March 2009
    The RTS part of the game is far different from other RTS games. Unfortunately, the demo's tutorial sucks balls and I had to learn several tricks on my own. First of all, you need to group units together in order to reduce micro. Also, you really, really need to pay attention to formations and utilize the rotate/increase rank or file keys. I also found out that when moving units, you can right click and hold and then drag to get the correct rank to file ratio you want. Finally, I found that I could maneuver the camera much more easily if I used the WASD keys for movement along the x/y axis and used the mouse to do rotations.

    While it may seem clunky, it's just the fact that you are trying to play it like Red Alert or Starcraft.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • I find the RTS section of the game to be quite clunky.
    You could barely control your dudes, and they all acted really stupidly.
    What is so clunky about it? It works, in my experience, much better than most other RTS control schemes.
  • So I tell the guys to move, and they don't move. I have to click quite a few times before they actually start to obey. Then I tell them to go around behind a house. Half of them get stuck on trees. Then they're standing behind the enemy, and I tell them to fire. We're standing about 10 feet behind the bad guys in plain sight, and they haven't turned around to face us. I tell my guys to fire, and after some delay they start taking pot-shots. If they were going to delay so much, why couldn't they all reload and fire?

    You people have a really low tolerance for shitty games. There are too many other things I could be doing. I'm not going to waste my time with something that is so incredibly flawed.
  • So I tell the guys to move, and they don't move. I have to click quite a few times before they actually start to obey. Then I tell them to go around behind a house. Half of them get stuck on trees. Then they're standing behind the enemy, and I tell them to fire. We're standing about 10 feet behind the bad guys in plain sight, and they haven't turned around to face us. I tell my guys to fire, and after some delay they start taking pot-shots. If they were going to delay so much, why couldn't they all reload and fire?
    Hmmm, they must've changed a lot to the unit movement, or you just play very shittily. Either way:
    You people have a really low tolerance for shitty games. There are too many other things I could be doing. I'm not going to waste my time with something that is so incredibly flawed.
    This doesn't go for me if your other paragraph is true.
  • Half of them get stuck on trees. Then they're standing behind the enemy, and I tell them to fire.
    That would happen in real life. Formation fighting is extremely difficult, and ordering real troops improperly can and has caused such things as men falling off cliffs or drowning in streams.
    I tell my guys to fire, and after some delay they start taking pot-shots. If they were going to delay so much, why couldn't they all reload and fire?
    The French and British had been asking that for years. ;^)

    I do agree, however, that the interface for these games is poop. Some people are willing to wade through it to get at the good game, but I am not. Don't settle for mediocre when you can demand excellence. ^_~
  • That would happen in real life. Formation fighting is extremely difficult, and ordering real troops improperly can and has caused such things as men falling off cliffs or drowning in streams.
    That I could understand. However, the soldiers were not maintaining formation, and they were literally walking into trees. Not running. Not falling down a hill. Walking straight into trees. Their legs moved as if they were still walking, but they didn't actually move because the tree was in their way. They did that for almost a minute.
  • Maybe the issue isn't with the game, but rather the player...
  • Maybe the issue isn't with the game, but rather the player...
    Any game where units will walk into endlessly into trees is still a bad game.

    The underlying ideas of these games are good, but they have the same issue that all of the old FPSs I love do: terrible interfaces, buggy play, and inaccessibility. I was only able to play Weapons Factory or MegaTF because I spend the time and energy to overcome the games' serious limitations. These games are no different.
  • edited March 2009
    Any game where units will walk into endlessly into trees is still a bad game.
    I have yet to encounter any of the issues that Scott has complained about.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • Maybe the issue isn't with the game, but rather the player...
    The player can never be at fault for bad controls. Think of the game with the worst controls in the universe. There is at least one person out there who has no problem with those controls. Does that mean that the game actually has great controls, and that everyone out there except the one person is at fault? Clearly, it does not.

    With this game, some people have a problem with the controls, and some people don't. That's reflects poorly on the game compared to other games which almost nobody has any control problems with.
  • Just think of it this way. A lot of RTS games these days handle formations automatically so all you need is a single click, or they ignore obstacles in the world just so your guys can pass through. This is essentially the RTS version of auto-aim. It's not the game's fault if you can't handle simple formations or unit control.

    Perhaps if you were more specific about what makes the controls bad, I could perhaps see where you are coming from. In all the time I've put into it, I have yet to encounter any of the "men walking into tree"-like bugs you have mentioned.
  • Just think of it this way. A lot of RTS games these days handle formations automatically so all you need is a single click, or they ignore obstacles in the world just so your guys can pass through. This is essentially the RTS version of auto-aim. It's not the game's fault if you can't handle simple formations or unit control.
    So you agree. These days other RTS games have solved all these problems. This game doesn't even have those basic user interface improvements. I don't even like RTSes as they are now, I'm definitely not going to go for one that plays like it's from 1998.
  • So you agree. These days other RTS games have solved all these problems. This game doesn't even have those basic user interface improvements. I don't even like RTSes as they are now, I'm definitely not going to go for one that plays like it's from 1998.
    I want to hear specifically what issues you have with the controls. You have yet to state one. Besides, I don't find them to be problems any more so that manual aiming is a problem in an FPS.
  • I want to hear specifically what issues you have with the controls. You have yet to state one. Besides, I don't find them to be problems any more so that manual aiming is a problem in an FPS.
    I did exactly what the tutorial said to do. The simple fact is there was a huge gap between what I thought I was ordering the units to do, and what they did. I would tell them to go, and they would go too far, or not go at all. I would tell them to shoot, and they would take their sweet time. All of my units, and the enemy units, were completely incompetent. It was as if I was giving orders to cave men instead of professionally trained soldiers.

    I'll give the game one bonus point, though, it's not about who clicks the fastest. But then again, the game is really really slow! It's painfully slow. I spent most of the time just watching as my guys slowly picked off the enemies one at a time. I probably could have gotten the job done more quickly, but I was taking zero losses, and I was slowly wearing them down, so there was no reason to do anything.

    If there is a game that is going to make the RTS not suck, this isn't it.
  • I did exactly what the tutorial said to do. The simple fact is there was a huge gap between what I thought I was ordering the units to do, and what they did. I would tell them to go, and they would go too far, or not go at all.
    Never encountered this issue. You were probably pressing the wrong button. Hint: Single right click for walk, double right click for run. Right click and drag to specific rank/file ratio.
    I would tell them to shoot, and they would take their sweet time. All of my units, and the enemy units, were completely incompetent. It was as if I was giving orders to cave men instead of professionally trained soldiers.
    It takes a while to load a musket. They didn't even have cartridge rounds. You also probably had your units on fire at will mode.
    All of my units, and the enemy units, were completely incompetent.
    I'm guessing you only played the tutorial in which the enemies are scripted to run at certain events and hold their ground. If you played the actual battle in the demo, the enemy actually behaves much better.
    I spent most of the time just watching as my guys slowly picked off the enemies one at a time. I probably could have gotten the job done more quickly, but I was taking zero losses, and I was slowly wearing them down, so there was no reason to do anything.
    Again, you were playing the tutorial; it's supposed to be a cake walk.
  • Never encountered this issue. You were probably pressing the wrong button. Hint: Single right click for walk, double right click for run. Right click and drag to specific rank/file ratio.
    This was not explained in the tutorial. The tutorial I played just said to right click to order guys to move. Also, I had guys in fire at will mode, which was explained in the tutorial, but then took them out of it, and it didn't make any difference.

    If what you are saying is true, then at best the game has a terrible tutorial. I have to assume that a game demo is representative of the actual full game experience. If it isn't, that's just tough shit. I don't have time to deal with it.

    You're basically making the same argument for this game that people make for watching GaoGaiGar. Apparently the show is terrible, but in the later episodes it gets good! It's worth it to deal with all that bullshit to get the nugget of gold. Yeah, that would be true if I didn't have a treasure chest of easy to get gold right here.
  • The Total War games have always had a great RTS component, and although I haven't played the demo, I'm willing to bet it's only improved. There was no difficulty for anyone with common sense before, and I don't suspect there is any now. I don't even think it was explained to me about double right clicking to run, it was just automatic from looking at troop actions and settings.

    Also, troops aren't intelligent, that's why they're troops.
  • some people have a problem with the controls, and some people don't.
    Sample size: < 10. Meaningful information gained: < 0. Confirmation on Scott's bloated ego: > 99%
    So you agree. These days other RTS games have solved all these problems. This game doesn't even have those basic user interface improvements. I don't even like RTSes as they are now, I'm definitely not going to go for one that plays like it's from 1998.
    Next time I'll just turn on that Auto Aim option in Natural Selection. That solves the problem of missing shots.

    Scott, you're being rather dumb. Stomping your feet because you can't deal with the tutorial.
    You're basically making the same argument for this game that people make for watching GaoGaiGar.
    He's telling you to play the game. What you've done is comparable to hearing about and watching a preview trailer of GaoGaiGar.

  • Scott, you're being rather dumb. Stomping your feet because you can't deal with the tutorial.
    What do you mean I couldn't deal with the tutorial? I blew it's brains out. It was an overwhelming victory. I didn't lose any units. It was a joke. It was also not fun.
  • What do you mean I couldn't deal with the tutorial? I blew it's brains out. It was an overwhelming victory. I didn't lose any units. It was a joke. It was also not fun.
    Wrong kind of 'deal with'.
    It was an overwhelming victory. I didn't lose any units.
    That'd better be the case. Read the last word in that sentence you quoted.
  • It was an overwhelming victory. I didn't lose any units.
    That'd better be the case. Read the last word in that sentence you quoted.
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can't lose troops in the tutorial. At all. Now, if you could win the demo battle without losing troops, that would be something else.
  • Now, if you could win the demo battle without losing troops, that would be something else.
    Would wounded but surviving troops count as lost or not?
  • Now, if you could win the demo battle without losing troops, that would be something else.
    Would wounded but surviving troops count as lost or not?
    Yes and no, depends on whether you consider casualties, in general, as being lost soldiers.
  • edited March 2009
    Just a couple more things to add to the discussion. One thing the demo does not show is the detailed campaign mode. It's essentially Civ 4 with a great RTS component. Many of the issues Scott had with his men can be explained by this. Maneuvers such as platoon firing (alternating lines shoot while others reload behind them) and skirmishing (breaking formation and taking cover to engage the enemy) are actually technologies that need to be researched by your cities in order to use them on the battlefield.
    Post edited by Andrew on
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