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Obama snubbed British PM?

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  • LifeInDiscordiaLifeInDiscordia
    That sounds like a nice gift. The only thing I don't understand is why he only gave him Star Wars IV : A New Hope; when clearly he should have forked over Empire and Return as well.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited March 2009
    Wait! America was rude and dismissive? I am shocked and appalled.
    On a more serious note: The papers here were predicting this before it happened so it's currently not being covered much.
    Also, you got the definition of sensationalist newspaper wrong.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    Those are all good movies. I don't know what they're bitchin' about.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    edited March 2009
    I heard this news on NPR and I recall that the gifts were paltry and inpersonal compared to the gifts given to Obama and his family:
    Brown, the first European leader to visit Obama since his Jan. 20 inauguration, will give him a first edition of Martin GilbertÂ’s seven-volume biography of Winston Churchill, whose World War Two partnership with Franklin Roosevelt epitomized the Anglo-American alliance.

    The second gift will be a framed commissioning paper for HMS Resolute, a Royal Navy ship that became icebound in the Arctic in the early 1850s while searching in vain for British explorer John FranklinÂ’s lost expedition that had been seeking a Northwest Passage to Asia.

    An American whaler later found Resolute and it was freed from the ice and returned to Queen Victoria in 1856. In 1880, the British goverment, as a gesture of thanks, presented President Rutherford B. Hayes with a desk made from timbers of the ship, and ever since it has been used in the Oval Office by most presidents, including Obama. A replica figured as a plot device in the Hollywood thriller “National Treasure 2: Book of Secrets”, in which a secret compartment in the desk contained pieces of a clue.

    At their White House talks on Tuesday, Brown also planned to give Obama a pen holder fashioned from the timber of HMS Gannet, a sister ship of the Resolute that also served for a time on anti-slavery missions off Africa.
    In comparison, the 25 DVDs of really well known and easy to come by movies and two helicopter toys from the White House gift-shop seem really, really lousy and impersonal.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • AprecheApreche
    Even if the gifts were crappy, what the fuck does it matter? If something so inconsequential as a simple gift has an actual effect on international diplomacy, then we are beyond hope. If the people in the highest offices of power are as immature as little children who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas, we're all fucked. Were the gifts crappy? I'd say so, but if such a trivial thing is even on a politician's radar in the face of the second worst economic crisis ever, then get the fuck out of my face. You should be immediately barred from office and never allowed to return.
  • gomidoggomidog
    I'm with Scott here. Obama did not get him good presents. They were the kind of presents that one would rush out and buy if they forgot about the gift until the last minute. However, I doubt he did it on purpose as an insult.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    In theory I'm with you, but gift giving among world leaders is a well known form of communication. Normally you don't read about it in the news, as the gifts are appropriate. In this case, while it does sound childish, there is a story of some worth here. I won't argue my point, it's your job to read up on the practice of gift giving.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    Let's just hope that he never goes to Japan.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    In theory I'm with you, but gift giving among world leaders is a well known form of communication. Normally you don't read about it in the news, as the gifts are appropriate. In this case, while it does sound childish, there is a story of some worth here. I won't argue my point, it's your job to read up on the practice of gift giving.
    I am with LB on this. While gifts should be meaningless, they are more than the physical item given. They not only act as a symbolic gesture and a representation of appreciation, but they also set a tone for the personal relationship between dignitaries. This may be a bit too pomp-and-circumstance for a lot of people's taste, but we are essentially talking about today's version of courtiers and to insult the King to is insult his people.

    Think of it this way, Scott and Emily:
    If you have a guest over and they bring a beautiful bottle of your favorite expensive wine for the meal, and you feed them hamburger helper when you can easily provide Kobe beef or their favorite dish. It shouldn't ruin your friendship, but it is not polite, thoughtful, responsible, or courteous.

    Also, a lot of the gift giving hoopla would be less significant if the PM visit wasn't treated all around as a nuisance by the Obama administration.
  • gomidoggomidog
    edited March 2009
    I didn't say it was courteous. It was pretty damn oblivious and rude. However, I doubt he meant it as a "snub." I think it was a faux pas.
    Let's just hope that he never goes to Japan.
    Well, let's hope he gets better gifts when he goes to Japan. And lets hope he doesn't vomit on anyone either.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • gomidoggomidog
    edited March 2009
    image

    America, why you gotta be such a dick to tsundere England when he gives you a present?

    (Ignore the whale...it was a running gag from another strip.)

    image
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • fooflyfoofly
    haha, DVD's? I don't see the problem really. Most British people are happy that Obama got in.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    haha, DVD's? I don't see the problem really. Most British people are happy that Obama got in.
    Yeah, I think that this is really only a problem for the cons and "moderates" who want to make a mountain out of a molehill. The administration is working its ass off trying to clean up and fix all the shit from eight years of conservative fail and no one had time to pick out nice presents. End of story.
  • onewildonewild
    To be honest more important things are happening this side of the pond at the moment. Which is why the proper newspapers such as the Independent, The Times and The Guardian are not covering it, not that they would cover it anyway. We are more concerned with the fact that two soldiers have just been shot dead in Northern Ireland for the first time in 10 years and what this means for the country.
  • Conan-SanConan-San
    Good, Brown needs to know he's not welcome no where in this world and needs to fuck off ASAP. Idiot at the wheel, he is.
  • ChurbaChurba
    The funny thing is that if Obama went for something lavish or expensive, then he would have been an identical issue, just for the opposite sides.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    Maybe they should just have their people coordinate ahead of time.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    The funny thing is that if Obama went for something lavish or expensive, then he would have been an identical issue, just for the opposite sides.
    This is true. If he gave Brown something really nice, the republicans would be saying, "OMG! We have these financial problems and yet Obama gave Brown some expensive present. That's very inappropriate.", just like the way they bitched about money spent on the Inauguration.

    These clowns just want to find something to bitch about. They are full of sound and fury, but they signify nothing. It's best just to ignore them.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    The gifts that Brown gave were hardly expensive. How much does it cost to frame a document? To make a pen holder? The gifts were valuable, not expensive. A box set of movies would probably cost more, but the value as a gift is almost nil.

    I'm not a republican or a moderate, but I do see this as a failing of Obama's administration. Here are some of the ways I see how this could have happened:

    A - The administration wanted to snub Britain and/or Gordon Brown. If the Special Relationship is going to be redefined, there are more appropriate channels of communication that should be used before the visit to explain it will be a low key event, and gift giving isn't going to happen.

    B - The administration didn't want to snub Brown, knew about the gift exchange tradition but actually thought a box set of movies is an appropriate gift. Maybe for a return visit, but not for the first visiting head of state from Europe.

    C - The administration didn't want to snub Brown, but didn't know about the gift exchange tradition, so went to the local Circuit City at the last minute. While an innocent mistake, I'd hate to have people less knowledgeable on meetings of heads of states than I am running things at the White House.

    D - The administration knew that British Prime Ministers have to pay if they want to keep a gift after they leave office. I think anything gift worth over 280 quid has to be paid for by the PM, the cheaper gifts he can get for free. Blair paid for a few gifts, but didn't keep a lot of Italian watches or the horse. Maybe the White House staff thought Brown would like a gift he could keep for free.

    I'm not a clown, and I'm not looking for things to bitch about, I just find this area of diplomacy interesting. I visited Brunai last year and spent some time in the Regalia Hall, looking at the gifts the Sultan had received from various heads of state during visits. As many of the items were selected to show off local culture or craft or design, I got a real impression of diverse thought and attitudes from different parts of the world. Any way you look at it, Obama's team dropped the ball on this issue. It might be a minor issue, but it is an interesting issue.
  • RymRym
    The administration knew that British Prime Ministers have to pay if they want to keep a gift after they leave office. I think anything gift worth over 280 quid has to be paid for by the PM, the cheaper gifts he can get for free. Blair paid for a few gifts, but didn't keep a lot of Italian watches or the horse. Maybe the White House staff thought Brown would like a gift he could keep for free.
    Stop making sense. This is neither the time nor the place.

    Obama just nipped our former mother country's neo-imperial machinations in the bud by poisoning their culture with our special blend of yee-haw American movies.
  • Dr. TimoDr. Timo
    Even if the gifts were crappy, what the fuck does it matter? If something so inconsequential as a simple gift has an actual effect on international diplomacy, then we are beyond hope.
    You forget the reality that diplomacy is carried out by normal people, and people can be influenced by gifts. This is not saying that anybody will be swayed to change their opinions on say torture or steel tariffs just because you gave them a chess set, but a well crafted, meaningful gift may be essential in setting the tone of whatever discussions follow.

    For example, the reset/overcharge button that Clinton gave the russians? I'm 50/60 on that thing being a planned lapse, simply to a) have a good laugh and b) let the russians feel a bit superior. Now you can bet that the ensuing discussions started off with everybody being relaxed and jovial.

    As an aside, you got to wonder wtf is up with a language where the words reset and overcharge are easily mixed up; reactor control panel anyone?
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