I just want to be clear with one thing, I do not hate US citizens nor your military, I don't think you are stupid, etc. I did hate your past government and the policies they pushed. There are hicks and jerks everywhere in the world, and it would be hypocritical of me to point out yours and not admit that we have them as well, the points I made are based on what I normally hear from people around me, and the fact that most people here deal with Americans through customer service call centers, thus adding to the hick, idiot, stupid stereotype.
It didn't look like you were being hateful. Nothing you said was unreasonable. Some of us are just a little bitter about the stupidity that surrounds us and the power that those stupid people are given.
I understand that you were giving your friend's point of view.
I myself, am a bit biased. I grew up as an Army brat. My father is a disabled Vietnam Veteran, my mother served in the Army, and as I have stated before my brother is a Captain currently serving in the Army.
I work for the Department of Veterans Affairs, and about 75% of my coworkers are Veterans. I grew up in an area that has an Army base and Air Force base next to eachother. The Armed Forces are pretty much a part of my daily life, so I have nothing but love and respect for them.
My work involves me reading chart notes for Veterans getting care at the VA. I can only tell you that some of the notes I read can be absolutely heart breaking. I think the worst ones are the recent OIF/OEF Veterans and their appointments with Mental Health. There were a few times I found myself crying because of what a person went through and is going through.
So for me, as much as I disliked the war in Iraq, I can't, in my heart not support or think very badly of the military.
So for me, as much as I disliked the war in Iraq, I can't, in my heart not support or think very badly of the military.
I have the same opinion, I have a large military base in my township, and have always loved the presence of reservists. It's a sin the base is being closed down and I won't hear the A-10's anymore.
So for me, as much as I disliked the war in Iraq, I can't, in my heart not support or think very badly of the military.
I had a cousin I nearly met once at a wedding I attended. His name was Ryan. I came close to meeting him, but he got sick and had to leave. I wanted to get to know some of my extended family, and had hoped to meet him eventually. I found out after the fact he went to Iraq. At the time, I was a conservative fool who supported the war. He died on January 9, 2007. He was 19. At the time, so was I. That changed me. I have no qualms with the troops on the ground, but I utterly despise the military commanders and Bush. I know it seems silly, especially since I never knew Ryan. It was just so close to home, and I can't help how I feel.
So for me, as much as I disliked the war in Iraq, I can't, in my heart not support or think very badly of the military.
I had a cousin I nearly met once at a wedding I attended. His name was Ryan. I came close to meeting him, but he got sick and had to leave. I wanted to get to know some of my extended family, and had hoped to meet him eventually. I found out after the fact he went to Iraq. At the time, I was a conservative fool who supported the war. He died on January 9, 2007. He was 19. At the time, so was I. That changed me. I have no qualms with the troops on the ground, but I utterly despise the military commanders and Bush. I know it seems silly, especially since I never knew Ryan. It was just so close to home, and I can't help how I feel.
The inability of people to make decisions based on factual information separate from their personal feelings causes most of the problems in this world.
So for me, as much as I disliked the war in Iraq, I can't, in my heart not support or think very badly of the military.
I have the same opinion, I have a large military base in my township, and have always loved the presence of reservists. It's a sin the base is being closed down and I won't hear the A-10's anymore.
My state is home to both Camp Lejeune and Fort Bragg. My father was in the Army, and several of my good friends are in the Marines. I was born on an Army base. I don't think any of us are arguing that the military is full of terrible people that should be scorned. The military as a whole serves an important purpose and the individuals who serve in it should be appreciated for their service. This does NOT, however, give them license to be complete assholes and do anything they want. I think they should be held to the same social expectations as the rest of us, notwithstanding PTSD-related things and such. The ones that act inappropriately are the ones that get noticed; those that behave properly are rarely given any media attention. We should by no means extrapolate our feelings toward the actions of the few that get noticed to the entire force, but these individuals DO deserve to be criticized when they act inappropriately.
People who sign up for the armed services sometimes die. It's a well-known fact. They perform dangerous tasks, particularly during wartime. I can't say that I despise or disrespect any commander for the death of a subordinate unless it was unnecessary and/or resulting from something stupid. Sure, the war in Iraq was probably a mistake. However, once we were committed, there were necessary things that had to be done. There are plenty of legit operations with risk attached. Sometimes, people die accomplishing them. It is a sacrifice they make for our country, and it should be respected.
The inability of people to make decisions based on factual information separate from their personal feelings causes most of the problems in this world.
This war was waged on false information. We know this because we have all seen the proof. Why do you think Valerie Plame was outed?
Personal feelings indeed. Many innocent people have died in vain for some false idea that they were protecting their country. I'm not angry because he died. I'm angry because now I know that he died for a lie.
The inability of people to make decisions based on factual information separate from their personal feelings causes most of the problems in this world.
This war was waged on false information. We know this because we have all seen the proof. Why do you think Valerie Plame was outed?
Personal feelings indeed. Many innocent people have died in vain for some false idea that they were protecting their country. I'm not angry because he died. I'm angry because now I know that he died for a lie.
The inability of people to make decisions based on factual information separate from their personal feelings causes most of the problems in this world.
It's impossible for people to be separate from their emotions because they are human.
This part of human nature also causes 'good' to be done in the world. Were it not for people making decisions based on emotions people would feel less obligated to assist others; were it not for pity and guilt.
Your statement earlier about the absence in mass media of modern images of the world was baseless. As far as you have said on the show you do not watch television or read magazines, the larger portion of mass media
This part of human nature also causes 'good' to be done in the world. Were it not for people making decisions based on emotions people would feel less obligated to start wars;
And some people do good because they feel obligated to do so not out of emotion but rational, logical thinking. It's possible to arrive at a set of ethics through thinking and discussion, not just "pity and guilt."
This part of human nature also causes 'good' to be done in the world. Were it not for people making decisions based on emotions people would feel less obligated tostart wars;
And some people do good because they feel obligated to do so not out of emotion but rational, logical thinking. It's possible to arrive at a set of ethics through thinking and discussion, not just "pity and guilt."
I've come to that conclusion, but I think I've gone too far. It's all protons and neutrons. Morality does not exist, it's a human construct. If you're going to think logically, then you would see that it makes no difference what you do because you're simply rearranging molecules to what you want.You could say that worsening the living quality of a human would be a bad thing to do, therefore illogical. However, it's illogical because of our human constructs. It's still subjective. We've created so called rational and logical feelings from our emotions. What is right? what is wrong? What rights do humans have? How can something subjective create logical and rational thought if those thoughts stemmed from our emotions? Anyone have an rebuttal for this? Am I thinking about it wrongly?
I've come to that conclusion, but I think I've gone too far. It's all protons and neutrons. Morality does not exist, it's a human construct. If you're going to think logically, then you would see that it makes no difference what you do because you're simply rearranging molecules to what you want.You could say that worsening the living quality of a human would be a bad thing to do, therefore illogical. However, it's illogical because of our human constructs. It's still subjective. We've created so called rational and logical feelings from our emotions. What is right? what is wrong? What rights do humans have? How can something subjective create logical and rational thought if those thoughts stemmed from our emotions? Anyone have an rebuttal for this? Am I thinking about it wrongly?
If you could state your position in clearer terms, I might be able to comment on them. Are you aiming for some kind of nihilism?
Personally I am convinced that human emotions are "something", and I'm convinced by the Desire Utilitarian model of morality. I'm sure Google could find better explanations, but I'll see if I can explain:
- Desire Utilitarian holds that you can plot out a massive map of everyone in the world and list their desires. - The most basic desires are those of life, food, drink, shelter, warmth, etc. - Other desire a things someone wants to do. - Some desires, if carried out, would let other people fulfill their desires more easily. Or let a larger number of people fulfill their desires. These things are "good". - Some desires, if carried out, would restrict other peoples' ability to carry out their desires. These actions would be considered "bad". - If someone has a "bad" desire, and you restrict that desire, your action would be considered "good".
The system only works in a large enough network of people, there's no "If you were heading towards a cliff in a train" scenario to test it, but it seems to hold true for almost every moral question I can find. And it is almost entirely based on subjective factors, but when fully explored it can objectively compared the relative morality of these subjective feelings.
Comments
I understand that you were giving your friend's point of view.
I myself, am a bit biased. I grew up as an Army brat. My father is a disabled Vietnam Veteran, my mother served in the Army, and as I have stated before my brother is a Captain currently serving in the Army.
I work for the Department of Veterans Affairs, and about 75% of my coworkers are Veterans. I grew up in an area that has an Army base and Air Force base next to eachother. The Armed Forces are pretty much a part of my daily life, so I have nothing but love and respect for them.
My work involves me reading chart notes for Veterans getting care at the VA. I can only tell you that some of the notes I read can be absolutely heart breaking. I think the worst ones are the recent OIF/OEF Veterans and their appointments with Mental Health. There were a few times I found myself crying because of what a person went through and is going through.
So for me, as much as I disliked the war in Iraq, I can't, in my heart not support or think very badly of the military.
People who sign up for the armed services sometimes die. It's a well-known fact. They perform dangerous tasks, particularly during wartime. I can't say that I despise or disrespect any commander for the death of a subordinate unless it was unnecessary and/or resulting from something stupid. Sure, the war in Iraq was probably a mistake. However, once we were committed, there were necessary things that had to be done. There are plenty of legit operations with risk attached. Sometimes, people die accomplishing them. It is a sacrifice they make for our country, and it should be respected.
Personal feelings indeed. Many innocent people have died in vain for some false idea that they were protecting their country. I'm not angry because he died. I'm angry because now I know that he died for a lie.
This part of human nature also causes 'good' to be done in the world. Were it not for people making decisions based on emotions people would feel less obligated to assist others; were it not for pity and guilt.
Your statement earlier about the absence in mass media of modern images of the world was baseless. As far as you have said on the show you do not watch television or read magazines, the larger portion of mass media
Personally I am convinced that human emotions are "something", and I'm convinced by the Desire Utilitarian model of morality. I'm sure Google could find better explanations, but I'll see if I can explain:
- Desire Utilitarian holds that you can plot out a massive map of everyone in the world and list their desires.
- The most basic desires are those of life, food, drink, shelter, warmth, etc.
- Other desire a things someone wants to do.
- Some desires, if carried out, would let other people fulfill their desires more easily. Or let a larger number of people fulfill their desires. These things are "good".
- Some desires, if carried out, would restrict other peoples' ability to carry out their desires. These actions would be considered "bad".
- If someone has a "bad" desire, and you restrict that desire, your action would be considered "good".
The system only works in a large enough network of people, there's no "If you were heading towards a cliff in a train" scenario to test it, but it seems to hold true for almost every moral question I can find. And it is almost entirely based on subjective factors, but when fully explored it can objectively compared the relative morality of these subjective feelings.