I pretty much agree with Rym and Scott about Panera. I've been there once, thought it was horrible and overpriced, and haven't been back. It's one of very, very few places that me and my friends can go out to eat where there is absolutely nothing on the menu that I will order.
If you think Panera bread is good, think about this.
When you go to a real bakery, and I mean arealbakery, what do you smell? That fresh baked bread smell can feed a family of 5.
When you go to Panera, what do you smell?
I rest my case.
Um, whenever I walk into a Panera around here, I smell fresh-baked bread. Sure, it's stronger in a small bakery, but that's because the oven is 10 feet away when I walk in.
Um, whenever I walk into a Panera around here, I smell fresh-baked bread. Sure, it's stronger in a small bakery, but that's because the oven is 10 feet away when I walk in.
Um, whenever I walk into a Panera around here, I smell fresh-baked bread. Sure, it's stronger in a small bakery, but that's because the oven is 10 feet away when I walk in.
Smells like nothing to me.
Maybe you're just surrounded by shitty Panera stores. Or maybe I know the only good ones.
Maybe you're just surrounded by shitty Panera stores
Maybe. But, every Panera I've ever been into has the look, feel, and taste of a cheap, fast-foodish chain. OK if they're all you've got, but hardly something to be sought out purposely.
Scott referred to fast food as "poison" and that bothers me a bit. I am not a huge fan of fast food (based on taste, business practices, and some quality concerns), but I am not anti-fast food either (Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich is tasty on occasion). On the subject, I would recommend checking out the Skeptoid episode and article on the subject.
I just wanted to say that you can all go to hell and die. You should appreciate that you can eat ANY kind of bread.
When you can't eat something that is in practically EVERYTHING, your food snobbishness is quickly replaced with "Oh my god I can EAT that!" whenever possible. Go ahead and nix any places that serve primarily bread and/or pasta dishes. Those places have cross-contamination galore. Now we cross off the places that use soy sauce or flour in all of their dishes. Deep-fried food isn't even considerable. Has the grill been basted? How about if any flour has been put down to avoid stickiness in the kitchen? It's getting to the point where I hate going out to eat. I eat things that make me sick just because it's easier than trying to find a place that actually serves gluten-free food.
I listened to the show yesterday and have a couple of points. 1) McDonalds over BK in the fast food area, are you insane? McDonalds cooks its burgers on a hot plate, BK uses flame grill, I rest my case. 2) In American you tip 15-25%, no wonder British waitresses/waiters love you over here!
It's funny for someone who hates the idea of "natural foods," he keeps some the same food attitudes as the people who shop at the organic market.
Just remember - Scott's opinion's are right, just by the nature of them being Scott's opinions, and anyone who disagrees with him is, by default, wrong, regardless of how much evidence they have to back their opinion. ;D
As for Panera, you guys are just eating at the wrong ones. Come down to the St. Louis area where the place actually started (and is actually still called "St. Louis Bread Company") and we'll get you some of the real stuff.
I eat things that make me sick just because it's easier than trying to find a place that actually serves gluten-free food.
You'll do well in New York ^_~
I am looking forward to having an abundance of eccentric places to possibly go. Here my choices are pretty much chains owned by the Outback people or...cook at home. Salad bars are sometimes a possibility.
ORLY? Emily's Korean Deli Buffet lunch is possibly full of crazy bacteria? Do tell, Pete.
Let me paint a picture for you.
You go to a salad bar. There are 100 people in the restaurant with you, the slobbering, gibbering masses with their rotten, yowling, disease-ridden crotchfruit. They've handled everything in that salad bar before you get there, and it hasn't been changed over yet.
The more times that an individual food item is handled, the greater the overall likelihood that it will be contaminated. It's a numbers game.
Also, fresh produce carries a crap ton of bacteria. So, tons of bacteria, people with inadequate handwashing and other sanitation practices, and crossing of utensils (because no utensil stays dedicated), and you have a recipe for an outbreak.
If the food is properly cooled, and the dishes are sold quickly enough, hence replacing the vegetables, will there be enough time for germs to amass to a critical amount?
I know. My mom used to be a salad bar girl at like...Shoney's, or something. You know what though? I have 5 younger siblings and I grew up around kids. I have been exposed to so many every-day pathogens that I rarely worry about it anymore.
It's like being a parent...there comes a certain point where you stop washing the baby's pacifier meticulously every time they drop it on the floor. They're going to put everything they can in their mouth anyway, so you might as well let them go ahead and develop their immune system.
If the food is properly cooled, and the dishes are sold quickly enough, hence replacing the vegetables, will there be enough time for germs to amass to a critical amount?
Perhaps. Food has to be turned over pretty quickly, though, and that still doesn't do anything for the utensils themselves.
As for the immune system, you can certainly build up a tolerance to most bacteria. A person with a normal immune system (generally) has nothing to fear from Salmonella or other such things. You might wish you were dead during a bout of salmonellosis, but it probably won't kill you. The young and elderly, however, are at a much higher risk, and you don't exactly acquire immunity to most foodborne pathogens; you just have to be strong enough to deal with it. Some pathognes, such as Listeria monocytogenes or Shigella sonnei, infect you using your immune system, so a sufficient dose can infect even a healthy adult. The bigger concern at most salad bars is viral infection, and those bastards get everywhere. Norovirus is not fun, but it won't kill you. There have been a couple of Hepatitis outbreaks due to salad bars, but that has more to do with inept management.
As long as you're thoroughly aware of the risk you're taking, go ahead and eat at a salad bar. I'll just again point out that the professional food microbiologist will not eat sprouts or things from a salad bar, but will eat his steak when it's still mooing. Take that as you will. :P
Heh heh heh...I have a mental image of you as a zombie out in a field attacking cow haunches. I do avoid the sprouts. Yeick.
One of the reasons I avoided medical school is that I don't want to know all of the things that could potentially kill me. I'd probably freak out all the time like my mom and die 20 years early from stress.
I just listened to the episode and have some comments. For the FRC fucking up when paying at the restaurants, what's so hard about getting separate checks? Each and every time me and my friends go out to a restaurant, and especially with big groups (10+), we get separate checks. Getting one check and attempting to split shit up will ALWAYS end up with someone paying less than the should, someone getting screwed over, and plenty of arguments. Why not just avoid it all and get separate checks?
I just listened to the episode and have some comments. For the FRC fucking up when paying at the restaurants, what's so hard about getting separate checks? Each and every time me and my friends go out to a restaurant, and especially with big groups (10+), we get separate checks. Getting one check and attempting to split shit up will ALWAYS end up with someone paying less than the should, someone getting screwed over, and plenty of arguments. Why not just avoid it all and get separate checks?
Because separate checks is a pain in the ass at many places. It's often a lot more work for the wait staff. It also means it will take longer to get the checks, and you will be sitting there longer.
I just listened to the episode and have some comments. For the FRC fucking up when paying at the restaurants, what's so hard about getting separate checks? Each and every time me and my friends go out to a restaurant, and especially with big groups (10+), we get separate checks. Getting one check and attempting to split shit up will ALWAYS end up with someone paying less than the should, someone getting screwed over, and plenty of arguments. Why not just avoid it all and get separate checks?
There really is never an argument, just people getting screwed over :-p, I'm pretty sure it has to do with people who share an appetizer generally not contributing as much as they think they need (it's hard to split out a shared appetizer as well anyhow).
It isn't that hard to split up the cost of shared dishes. If you had some, put in a few more bucks. If it was an expensive dish, look at the price, divide it by the number of people that shared it and pay your part.
Because separate checks is a pain in the ass at many places. It's often a lot more work for the wait staff. It also means it will take longer to get the checks, and you will be sitting there longer.
I guess it depends where you go, when you go (if it's busy or not), and how many people you have.
Typically when me and my friends go somewhere, it's so late that it's usually not that crowded. Even for 15 person groups, it's never been more difficult to get separate checks than to fuck around with evenly splitting a single check.
The main problem is the appetizers. Like Mrs. MacRoss said, we often share appetizers. They have to put the appetizer on someone's check, and then people still have to pony up their share. So really, separate checks doesn't help when shared food is the problem.
Also, a lot of restaurants will not give out separate checks. Most cellphones have a calculator and a tip calculator. If you are so intimidated by the simple act of dividing the cost of a dish by the number of people that ate it, adding that to the running total for your personal consumption, and figuring out what 15% or 20% of that totaled amount would be; then use your cell phone. Jeebus people! I have a degree in Theatre and never took math beyond pre-calc, but this is simple math. If the techies can't do it, then this is a problem.
Comments
When you go to a real bakery, and I mean a real bakery, what do you smell? That fresh baked bread smell can feed a family of 5.
When you go to Panera, what do you smell?
I rest my case.
On the subject, I would recommend checking out the Skeptoid episode and article on the subject.
It's funny for someone who hates the idea of "natural foods," he keeps some the same food attitudes as the people who shop at the organic market.
When you can't eat something that is in practically EVERYTHING, your food snobbishness is quickly replaced with "Oh my god I can EAT that!" whenever possible. Go ahead and nix any places that serve primarily bread and/or pasta dishes. Those places have cross-contamination galore. Now we cross off the places that use soy sauce or flour in all of their dishes. Deep-fried food isn't even considerable. Has the grill been basted? How about if any flour has been put down to avoid stickiness in the kitchen? It's getting to the point where I hate going out to eat. I eat things that make me sick just because it's easier than trying to find a place that actually serves gluten-free food.
1) McDonalds over BK in the fast food area, are you insane? McDonalds cooks its burgers on a hot plate, BK uses flame grill, I rest my case.
2) In American you tip 15-25%, no wonder British waitresses/waiters love you over here!
As for Panera, you guys are just eating at the wrong ones. Come down to the St. Louis area where the place actually started (and is actually still called "St. Louis Bread Company") and we'll get you some of the real stuff.
You go to a salad bar. There are 100 people in the restaurant with you, the slobbering, gibbering masses with their rotten, yowling, disease-ridden crotchfruit. They've handled everything in that salad bar before you get there, and it hasn't been changed over yet.
The more times that an individual food item is handled, the greater the overall likelihood that it will be contaminated. It's a numbers game.
Also, fresh produce carries a crap ton of bacteria. So, tons of bacteria, people with inadequate handwashing and other sanitation practices, and crossing of utensils (because no utensil stays dedicated), and you have a recipe for an outbreak.
If the food is properly cooled, and the dishes are sold quickly enough, hence replacing the vegetables, will there be enough time for germs to amass to a critical amount?
It's like being a parent...there comes a certain point where you stop washing the baby's pacifier meticulously every time they drop it on the floor. They're going to put everything they can in their mouth anyway, so you might as well let them go ahead and develop their immune system.
As for the immune system, you can certainly build up a tolerance to most bacteria. A person with a normal immune system (generally) has nothing to fear from Salmonella or other such things. You might wish you were dead during a bout of salmonellosis, but it probably won't kill you. The young and elderly, however, are at a much higher risk, and you don't exactly acquire immunity to most foodborne pathogens; you just have to be strong enough to deal with it. Some pathognes, such as Listeria monocytogenes or Shigella sonnei, infect you using your immune system, so a sufficient dose can infect even a healthy adult. The bigger concern at most salad bars is viral infection, and those bastards get everywhere. Norovirus is not fun, but it won't kill you. There have been a couple of Hepatitis outbreaks due to salad bars, but that has more to do with inept management.
As long as you're thoroughly aware of the risk you're taking, go ahead and eat at a salad bar. I'll just again point out that the professional food microbiologist will not eat sprouts or things from a salad bar, but will eat his steak when it's still mooing. Take that as you will. :P
One of the reasons I avoided medical school is that I don't want to know all of the things that could potentially kill me. I'd probably freak out all the time like my mom and die 20 years early from stress.
Typically when me and my friends go somewhere, it's so late that it's usually not that crowded. Even for 15 person groups, it's never been more difficult to get separate checks than to fuck around with evenly splitting a single check.
Jeebus people! I have a degree in Theatre and never took math beyond pre-calc, but this is simple math. If the techies can't do it, then this is a problem.