Only by this forum's standards. I believe the vast majority of the world believes in God in one way or the other. Technically speaking, the FRC forum is a cult.
Only by this forum's standards. I believe the vast majority of the world believes in God in one way or the other. Technically speaking, the FRC forum is a cult.
Jesus started off as a cult leader.
This is why I believe it is hard for the Bible to be manipulated.
It's a work of literature like any other. Words can be changed, and they were. Chapters can be deleted, and they were. The words themselves can be interpreted, and they are. That's the only way to get usage out of it.
I honor it by believing in him and doing what he said. He didn't say we needed to have all these restrictions when he died, a person made that up. This is my exact problem with older religions. People making stuff up because of what they thought. I don't care about what another human has to say is religiously important. I care about what the Bible says. As for the Pastor, he simply gives us an interpretation of the Bible rather than telling us what is important, so I find his words interesting to consider in my own personal interpretation.
Then you don't have a religion, now do you? What you have is a book and faith, which is fine, I'm not saying you're wrong (everyone else is.) But a religion is more than that. It's customs, traditions, and faith all wrapped up together. It's more than just one person and God. Take for example Greek orthodox easter. The tradition is that we get a lot of food, lamb on a spite among that, and run around all day saying "Christ has risen!" to each other. Yes, it's arbitrary, but it's our traditional way of honoring Jesus' sacrifice.
You're right, I don't have religion. I don't enjoy calling what I have a religion because of those predefined notions. Religion is too restrictive a term. What I have is a personal relationship with God, fostered by my belief in the Bible and belief that He has saved me. Calling it a religion is simply convenient sometimes.
Only by this forum's standards. I believe the vast majority of the world believes in God in one way or the other. Technically speaking, the FRC forum is a cult.
Jesus started off as a cult leader.
Yeah, sure, okay. We're like a cult. But unlike a cult, our leader isn't a human. Granted, Jesus was born a human, but he is ultimately God. That's the difference. I was ignoring this up 'til now, but I see that's the only useful thing you have to say to me, so I might as well respond. Edit: Sorry, ignore that, you weren't the one saying the cult thing the whole time. But a bunch of people did, and this is my response to that recurring line.
You're right, I don't have religion. I don't enjoy calling what I have a religion because of those predefined notions. Religion is too restrictive a term. What I have is a personal relationship with God, fostered by my belief in the Bible and belief that He has saved me. Calling it a religion is simply convenient sometimes.
Well at least we have come to an agreement here. Good luck with your interpreting the bible and you divine relationship. ^_^
Only by this forum's standards. I believe the vast majority of the world believes in God in one way or the other. Technically speaking, the FRC forum is a cult.
Hardly. Michael Shermer defines a cult as:
* Veneration of the Leader: Excessive glorification to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity. * Inerrancy of the Leader: Belief that he or she cannot be wrong. * Omniscience of the Leader: Acceptance of beliefs and pronouncements on virtually all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial. * Persuasive Techniques: Methods used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs. * Hidden Agendas: Potential recruits and the public are not given a full disclosure of the true nature of the group's beliefs and plans. * Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything about the leader and the group's inner circle, particularly flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances. * Financial and/or Sexual Exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest in the group, and the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers. * Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or group has a method of discovering final knowledge on any number of subjects. * Absolute Morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group have developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code may become and remain members, those who do not are dismissed or punished.
None of the non-believers on this forum ascribe to any of the above.
You're right, I don't have religion. I don't enjoy calling what I have a religion because of those predefined notions. Religion is too restrictive a term. What I have is a personal relationship with God, fostered by my belief in the Bible and belief that He has saved me. Calling it a religion is simply convenient sometimes.
Well at least we have come to an agreement here. Good luck with your interpreting the bible and you divine relationship. ^_^
Yeah, sure, okay. We're like a cult. But unlike a cult, our leader isn't a human. Granted, Jesus was born a human, but he is ultimately God. That's the difference. I was ignoring this up 'til now, but I see that's the only useful thing you have to say to me, so I might as well respond. Edit: Sorry, ignore that, you weren't the one saying the cult thing the whole time. But a bunch of people did, and this is my response to that recurring line.
I think he was just trying to be humorous. Not everything said here is an attack.
Only by this forum's standards. I believe the vast majority of the world believes in God in one way or the other. Technically speaking, the FRC forum is a cult.
Hardly. Michael Shermer defines a cult as:
* Veneration of the Leader: Excessive glorification to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity. * Inerrancy of the Leader: Belief that he or she cannot be wrong. * Omniscience of the Leader: Acceptance of beliefs and pronouncements on virtually all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial. * Persuasive Techniques: Methods used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs. * Hidden Agendas: Potential recruits and the public are not given a full disclosure of the true nature of the group's beliefs and plans. * Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything about the leader and the group's inner circle, particularly flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances. * Financial and/or Sexual Exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest in the group, and the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers. * Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or group has a method of discovering final knowledge on any number of subjects. * Absolute Morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group have developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code may become and remain members, those who do not are dismissed or punished.
None of the non-believers on this forum ascribe to any of the above.
God does not have Hidden Agendas or Deceit, although some denominations do. God doesn't want your money, an individual Church wants your money to keep running. Therefore, God only has some aspects of being a cult. And they are the least. Also, He doesn't really have Absolute Morality, because Jesus will forgive you if you are unable to follow the rules perfectly, which everyone is.
Yeah, sure, okay. We're like a cult. But unlike a cult, our leader isn't a human. Granted, Jesus was born a human, but he is ultimately God. That's the difference. I was ignoring this up 'til now, but I see that's the only useful thing you have to say to me, so I might as well respond. Edit: Sorry, ignore that, you weren't the one saying the cult thing the whole time. But a bunch of people did, and this is my response to that recurring line.
I think he was just trying to be humorous. Not everything said here is an attack.
Are you sure? I think it was both. Not a vicious attack, but when people talk to me about religion on this forum, they generally don't want to make jokes to me about it. It's one of the things they don't joke about and simply hate with a passion.
No, Axel, YOU were the one who started this when you said in the "Fail" thread that Catholicism was a cult and that your "religion" was much more reasonable than Catholicisim.
allow me to rephrase it better: Do youbelievethe Bible is true, and why?
Yes, I believe it is true. I believe it is true because of many reasons, one's I have already discussed and do not want to discuss again.
Also, this thread has derailed. I do not want to argue about why I believe in God. I simply wished to argue about why Catholicism could not really be considered Christians because they break the tenets of the Bible too much.
Arguing about why I believe in God gets me nowhere and gets threads shut down. This is a different argument about an aspect of religion, and therefore that argument need not be brought up. FSM Rule would get that thread shut down immediately.
Therefore, again, I will not answer your question, as I have already had this argument.
No, Axel, YOU were the one who started this when you said in the "Fail" thread that Catholicism was a cult and that your "religion" was much more reasonable than Catholicisim.
Also, this thread has derailed. I do not want to argue about why I believe in God. I simply wished to argue about why Catholicism could not really be considered Christians because they break the tenets of the Bible too much.
. . . and you have totally failed to convincingly state why except to summarily state your conclusion that you don't like Catholicism. I don't like your religion, but I don't say Catholicism is any better.
All religions are equally invalid. Yours is no better than anyone else's. The belief that your story is better than other's stories lies at the heart of most if not all of the evil done in the name of religion. Shame on you for being so sinfully prideful.
But unlike a cult, our leader isn't a human... God does not have Hidden Agendas or Deceit... God would allow for their to be good enough people who would ensure the truth was in it and not lies... etc...
Do you have any evidence of this from any source other than your bible? If not, this thread is over, pending your refutation of the FSM argument. You have made not a single unchallenged assertion, and every statement you have made to date begs the question.
If your next post is not a refutation of the FSM argument, then I am closing this thread.
Well, we didn't sin at first. Adam and Eve made that choice.
The fruit from the tree of knowledge is what taught Adam and Eve about good and evil, they knew nothing of the dichotomy before hand. They had no idea that eating the magical knowledge fruit was wrong!
God doesn't want your money, an individual Church wants your money to keep running.
Tithing is a very well known aspect of the Bible but, like you said, not technically to God.
Also, He doesn't really have Absolute Morality, because Jesus will forgive you if you are unable to follow the rules perfectly, which everyone is.
Absolute Morality means ultimate source of justice, not punishment.
God does provide justice in the end to those who refuse to be forgiven, so I'll give you that. And tithing is simply so a Church can operate. While it is important, it is not an aspect of God. If we didn't give money to the Church, it would shut down and we'd have to hold Church ceremonies in our houses, which would gradually give way to the wear and tear of tons of people who weren't paying to fix any problems that their presence caused. Church, in large groups of over 30-40 or so, requires money to ensure that things can be continued. If your church is just you and 10 friends getting together to talk about the Bible, then whatever. God never said you couldn't do that. But most people prefer a big church, so money becomes an important aspect.
Well, I didn't think this was the same old argument, which is why I was willing to have it. But apparently it is, so I shouldn't have, and this thread goes bye bye.
Well, I didn't think this was the same old argument, which is why I was willing to have it.
Logically, this argument is 100% moot until you refute the more basic argument of the FSM. It is pointless to argue anything further, as until it is refuted, FSM patently invalidates every further argument you make. There can be no further discussion until you refute the most fundamental issue, which you can not and will not do. The fact that you continue to ignore this argument is tantamount to your acceptance of it as true.
Your last post failed to refute FSM. This thread is closed.
Well, I didn't think this was the same old argument, which is why I was willing to have it.
Logically, this argument is 100% moot until you refute the more basic argument of the FSM. It is pointless to argue anything further, as until it is refuted, FSM patently invalidates every further argument you make. There can be no further discussion until you refute the most fundamental issue, which you can not and will not do. The fact that you continue to ignore this argument is tantamount to your acceptance of it as true.
Your last post failed to refute FSM. This thread is closed.
Comments
Edit: Sorry, ignore that, you weren't the one saying the cult thing the whole time. But a bunch of people did, and this is my response to that recurring line.
Also, this thread has derailed. I do not want to argue about why I believe in God. I simply wished to argue about why Catholicism could not really be considered Christians because they break the tenets of the Bible too much.
Arguing about why I believe in God gets me nowhere and gets threads shut down. This is a different argument about an aspect of religion, and therefore that argument need not be brought up. FSM Rule would get that thread shut down immediately.
Therefore, again, I will not answer your question, as I have already had this argument.
All religions are equally invalid. Yours is no better than anyone else's. The belief that your story is better than other's stories lies at the heart of most if not all of the evil done in the name of religion. Shame on you for being so sinfully prideful.
If your next post is not a refutation of the FSM argument, then I am closing this thread.
If you want to read more on this topic, read this article.
And tithing is simply so a Church can operate. While it is important, it is not an aspect of God. If we didn't give money to the Church, it would shut down and we'd have to hold Church ceremonies in our houses, which would gradually give way to the wear and tear of tons of people who weren't paying to fix any problems that their presence caused. Church, in large groups of over 30-40 or so, requires money to ensure that things can be continued. If your church is just you and 10 friends getting together to talk about the Bible, then whatever. God never said you couldn't do that. But most people prefer a big church, so money becomes an important aspect.
Your last post failed to refute FSM. This thread is closed.
Also, I already pointed out that you could close the thread in my post right above yours.
Your last post failed to refute FSM. This thread is closed.