This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

How big a problem is fake medicine?

24

Comments

  • Still, I could use a new chair. How much does that one go for, and can I adjust the height of the different back sections? I'm very short.
    That one is about $500, which is actually very inexpensive for a good ergonomic chair. Pretty much every part of it is adjustable -- seat, back and neckrest go up and down, seat slides forward and backward, armrests go up and down and swivel side to side. I just measured, and at its lowest settings, it's about 45.75" from the ground to the top of the headrest.
    No, my chair sucks. And my posture sucks. And it's bad. I need a better chair, but I also need to not hunch over like an old lady when I am drawing.
    Yeah, I'm gonna have to start watching out for that myself. Using an Intuos, it's easy to just sit back in the chair and draw, but I just ordered a Cintiq, and I know I'm gonna be hunching.
  • Earlier this year I had real bad back problems, all to do with a trapped sciatic nerve. I took pain killers, but they hardly took the edge off the pain. I mainly lay flat in bed and cried a lot.

    Meanwhile, a housemate of a friend in Lisbon (where I was staying for a few weeks in January) had a similar problem. She had had a bad back for well over a year, and kept recommending chiropractic and herbal medicine and all kind of things to me. I pointed out it was all bunk, and that none of her recommendations had been shown to have any effect. I also pointed out that 90% of sciatica resolves itself given time and rest, and that was the course I was going to take.

    Like Joe said, it is very, very difficult not to try out the quack alternatives. I mean, I felt really stupid at one point, saying "You know, I'll just do nothing for the next month" instead of "Hey, what's the harm? I'll give chiropractic a shot!"

    Of course, things got really, really sad with Flora. My girlfriend chatted to her a while back and she said something like "I went to a psychic about my bad back and she told me I was stung by a scorpion in a previous life." It was all Pola could do not to laugh in her face... and cry at the same time. Here's someone who obviously needs some kind of surgery, and she's spent the last two years paying quacks for DOING NOTHING!
  • Chiropractors are incredibly dangerous. I don't massage the spinal area of any spinal cases that present to me till after I have taken radiographs to make sure I don't cause sciatica, breaking bony deposits between vertebrae (a lot of pain) or entrapping veins or arteries which can cause ischaemia (tissue death due to poor blood supply).
    Chiropractors are just physiotherapists told to fuck with diseased parts of the body which can cause sudden severe disease up to and inclusive of mortality.
    As for the ethics, I know that a lot of chiropractors honestly believe in their practice, so I can't say thattheyare acting unethically, just ignorantly.
    Their ignorance is born of being uneducated and being misled in life. My University started the first class of Chiropractors as I graduated from Veterinary Medicine and Surgery.
    The entrance requirements for this course were crazily low, way below even Medicine which is easy to get into. I talked to one of the girls who was starting it and she had barely passed the final year of high school. She had no backup for anything that she was going to be trained in.
    I have no data or even anecdotal evidence to back up this idea, but I think it would be interesting to see the statistics on harm caused to patients seeking quack medicine vs legitimate medicine. Real doctors screw up all the time and their screw ups can be life threatening, even if the original ailment was not. It's obviously not a good situation for a patient who requires real medicine to forgo that in favor of psychic surgery, but in cases where either option will produce similar results (of which I suspect there are a great many), what does it matterwhothe patient wastes their money on? If they feel better in the end, placebo or not, that's fine with me.
    I agree a lot of Medical General Practitioners are shockingly bad (especially when you know the science yourself). However many more "screw ups" will come from "fake medicine", which delay problems or ailments to the point where patients present with very difficult and expensive to treat problems. Causing problems for all tax payers (especially those that come from countries with half decent Public Health Systems).
  • My classmate found this on facebook and I'm reposting all the details in case anyone in the Houston area is interested in attending.
    Host: Abundant Life Chiropractic w/ DR. Chris Zaino
    Type: Education - Lecture
    Network: Global
    Price: FREE
    Date: Monday, August 17, 2009
    Time: 6:15pm - 7:45pm
    Location: Abundant life Chiropractic
    Street: 3000 Research Forest Suite #150
    City/Town: The Woodlands, TX

    We will discuss Vaccine Ingredients and Production, Natural Immunity, the Autism Vaccine Connection, Vaccines and Micro-Muscular Strokes Causing Autism and much more

    Do not do things blind! Be and authority, be educated on what they are putting into you and your children.
    This is for everyone, especially the kids.
    I thought after the supreme court ruling, all of the countless papers that disproved that one particular scientifically unethical anti-vaccine scientist that perhaps everyone would regain some semblance of intelligence. I know at least three people that are going to this from my department to see what kind of crazy talk they try to spread and correct the lies that will be coming out of this guy's mouth.
  • You think that is bad, in the UK you can get Homeopathic medicine on the FRIGGIN NHS, TAX PAYER MONEY FOR TREATMENTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PROVEN TO WORK!
  • My classmate found this on facebook and I'm reposting all the details in case anyone in the Houston area is interested in attending.
    Host: Abundant Life Chiropractic w/ DR. Chris Zaino
    Type: Education - Lecture
    Network: Global
    Price: FREE
    Date: Monday, August 17, 2009
    Time: 6:15pm - 7:45pm
    Location: Abundant life Chiropractic
    Street: 3000 Research Forest Suite #150
    City/Town: The Woodlands, TX

    We will discuss Vaccine Ingredients and Production, Natural Immunity, the Autism Vaccine Connection, Vaccines and Micro-Muscular Strokes Causing Autism and much more

    Do not do things blind! Be and authority, be educated on what they are putting into you and your children.
    This is for everyone, especially the kids.
    I thought after the supreme court ruling, all of the countless papers that disproved that one particular scientifically unethical anti-vaccine scientist that perhaps everyone would regain some semblance of intelligence. I know at least three people that are going to this from my department to see what kind of crazy talk they try to spread and correct the lies that will be coming out of this guy's mouth.
    Wow, apparently I was not angry enough today. Thank you, Lisa; I now hate the world just a little bit more.

    Do you think you can get your colleagues to record the audio of this trainwreck, or perhaps get video of it? I'd really like to observe this sort of insanity through a safe medium.
  • "Do not do things bland! Be and authority, be educated on what they are putting into you and your childern"

    apparently they can not write as well as read.... Be and authority?
  • edited August 2009
    To top it off, Lisa just showed me this guys web site "Alive by Design". He's an ID nut to top it all off:

    http://www.chriszaino.com/

    wow. I'll bring my video camera if we are able to go (and if they let me in with it).
    Post edited by Jameskun on
  • edited August 2009
    "You're right - God's design for our body is far better!"
    Is there another body design out there I'm missing?

    By the way, I bought homeopathic pink-eye eyedrops once, not knowing they were homeopathic. They worked very well actually. But *someone* looked at the box and discovered they were homeopathic and now tells people I like homeopathic medicine....
    Post edited by Lyddi on
  • edited August 2009
    By the way, I bought homeopathic pink-eye eyedrops once, not knowing they were homeopathic. They worked very well actually. But *someone* looked at the box and discovered they were homeopathic and now tells people I like homeopathic medicine....
    If it was a saline solution or even just water, that can soothe the eye and remove irritants. However, the "medicine" did not help, just the lubricant. So, yay! Their bullshit helped, you probably just spent too much money.
    Whoever is bad-teasing you, just bad-tease them back!
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • Whoever is bad-teasing you, just bad-tease them back!
    I would rather she not... ~_^
  • By the way, I bought homeopathic pink-eye eyedrops once, not knowing they were homeopathic. They worked very well actually. But *someone* looked at the box and discovered they were homeopathic and now tells people I like homeopathic medicine....
    If it was a saline solution or even just water, that can soothe the eye and remove irritants. However, the "medicine" did not help, just the lubricant. So, yay! Their bullshit helped, you probably just spent too much money.
    Whoever is bad-teasing you, just bad-tease them back!
    I had really bad pink-eye, and I couldn't even keep my eye open anymore, drive, etc. I didn't want to go to the emergency room so I had to wait until my appointment a couple days later to get the "real" eyedrops. So I went to some random pharmacy and the pharmacist recommended the homeopathic ones (they were the only over the counter pink-eye drops available).
    They worked instantly, and I was just glad I could open my eye again. I don't know what was in them though, because the normal Visine drops weren't helping me at all. They were pretty expensive though.
  • I don't know what was in them though,
    Well, since they're homeopathic, nothing. You basically just washed your eyes, which is a perfectly valid way of dealing with an eye irritant. Next time, just rinse them in the shower and save the money. :P
  • I don't know what was in them though,
    Well, since they're homeopathic, nothing. You basically just washed your eyes, which is a perfectly valid way of dealing with an eye irritant. Next time, just rinse them in the shower and save the money. :P
    Now being curious about this, I looked it up online to see the ingredients. One of them is Euphrasia: "Euphrasia is a derivative of the eyebright plant." Eyebright plant? Wow, I put eyebright plant in my eye...
  • It also depends on if the pink-eye was caused by a virus, bacteria, or some kind of other irritant. If it was just a very persistent irritant, then just washing out with plenty of saline solution is pretty effective. However, if it was bacterial, a real antibiotic eyedrop would be recommended, because you need to kill the buggers.
  • Wow, I put eyebright plant in my eye...
    Well, eyebright extract that's been diluted by 6 orders of magnitude, yes. You're effectively putting nothing into your eyes.
  • I don't know what was in them though,
    Well, since they're homeopathic, nothing. You basically just washed your eyes, which is a perfectly valid way of dealing with an eye irritant. Next time, just rinse them in the shower and save the money. :P
    Now being curious about this, Ilooked it uponline to see the ingredients. One of them is Euphrasia: "Euphrasia is a derivative of the eyebright plant." Eyebright plant? Wow, I put eyebright plant in my eye...
    I guessed you missed the discussion of homeopathic medicine, but the chances of even one molecule of eyebright being in that whole bottle of drops is minuscule at best.

    It worked either because you wanted it to work, or more likely, your eyes just needed some moisture, because all it was was water.
  • Lyddi, when you had pink-eye, were your eyes sealed shut by a mucus discharge? Was it greenish-brown or clear? If there was such a discharge, then most likely it was a bacterial infection. If not, then it may have been an environmental irritant that got stuck in your eyes.
  • Lyddi, when you had pink-eye, were your eyes sealed shut by a mucus discharge? Was it greenish-brown or clear? If there was such a discharge, then most likely it was a bacterial infection. If not, then it may have been an environmental irritant that got stuck in your eyes.
    It was bacterial pink-eye. That's what they said when I went to the doctor and gave me real eyedrops. I don't remember if it was gunky or not, it just hurt so bad I couldn't keep my eye open because the slightest bit of air burned it.

    It is very possible that the Visine I had been using was out of date or just the wrong formula for my problem, and the homeopathic drops had just the right amount of moisturization I needed (as in, water, hah.) It didn't cure it, just made it feel much better till I could get the real stuff. At the time I didn't know it was homeopathic, a pharmacist actually recommended it, and it was expensive, so my mind thought I was using "real" stuff, and thus my mind made my eye feel better. Maybe I am a real life example of the placebo effect.

    Note: I never really knew much about homeopathic medicine before my accidental eye drop usage. This has been an interesting learning experience for me.
  • A great video.
    If they're making homeopathic medicine for radiation poisoning, bubonic plague, smallpox and anthrax, I wonder what they're putting into it before they dilute it into nothing? ^_~
  • I was unable to attend the anti-vaccination talk Monday night but, three of my classmates did attend. They went to try and catch the misinformation that was presented so that the audience would be well educated with both sides. They tried for ten minutes to listen to Chris Zaino's wife (the vaccination expert, despite having no background in medicine or vaccines whatsoever) but were asked to leave after ten minutes. The crowd cheered and applauded when the group of scientists left. I am disgusted and infuriated by this behavior.

    I've posted the link below if anyone wants to watch what goes on at an anti-vaccination/fake medicine gathering.
    http://vimeo.com/6160448
  • @ zibbelcoot: I think I just burst a blood vessel in my eye reading that. I am all for parents questioning and learning about the medical treatments/recommendations for their children, but how dare they put their children's well-being and the well-being of those that come in contact with their children in the hands of people with no qualifications and no evidence. Furthermore, how dare they propagate their despicable ignorance to their children. Booing scientists and medical students that dedicate their lives to saving and enriching the lives of others while they put their children's lives in the hands of irresponsible zealots is just evil.
  • how dare they put their children's well-being and the well-being of those that come in contact with their children in the hands of people with no qualifications and no evidence.
    The question is: what do we do? If it's child abuse, then we need the government to take their children away.
  • edited August 2009
    That isn't how child services works. If we were to identify that as child abuse/child endangerment, then child services bends over backwards to provide parenting classes, provide therapy for the parent and the child, etc. Honestly, a class that taught how to identify fact from BS and about the risk v. reward of vaccination would be excellent. Until then, the children should be kept out of all public schools and institutions until their vaccinations are up to date.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • the children should be kept out of all public schools and institutions until their vaccinations are up to date.
    Most definitely. However, I'll wager this will just cause most of these "parents" to home school, further exacerbating the hereditary nature of crazy.
  • the children should be kept out of all public schools and institutions until their vaccinations are up to date.
    Most definitely. However, I'll wager this will just cause most of these "parents" to home school, further exacerbating the hereditary nature of crazy.
    That's why this needs to be recognized as neglect, child endangerment, and a threat to public safety.
  • That's why this needs to be recognized as neglect, child endangerment, and a threat to public safety.
    I believe the answer is a good Buzz Aldrining.
  • On the subject of fake medicine and child endangerment, why is Dale Nuemann in jail, but John Travolta isn't?
  • edited August 2009
    On the subject of fake medicine and child endangerment, why isDale Nuemannin jail, but John Travolta isn't?
    Dale Nuemann is not a celebrity millionaire.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
Sign In or Register to comment.