Mexico decriminalizes drugs

Rym

Mexico enacts 'personal use' drug law

This is a big deal. Mexico has leaned in this direction several times, but the US has always browbeat them back into line. The fact that they have actually gone forward with this is a major break with US policy and, frankly, I applaud them.

Apreche

Mexico enacts 'personal use' drug law

This is a big deal. Mexico has leaned in this direction several times, but the US has always browbeat them back into line. The fact that they have actually gone forward with this is a major break with US policy and, frankly, I applaud them.

This is great, but it means two things.

1) There will be a lot of US people going to Mexico for drug tourism the same way people go to Amsterdam to get stoned. Tijuana is going to be even more fucked up next spring break.

2) This does nothing to stop the drug-related crime. Drugs like these do hurt people. Especially cocaine and heroin, which are on the list. The number one reason to legalise them is not because it's better for society if people hurt themselves. It's because making them illegal creates a whole criminal underworld. Mexico legalising drugs doesn't eliminate their crime problems, because they are mostly selling drugs to the US. The US would have to legalise to eliminate the cartels.

Rym

The trouble is that it's still a half-measure. Manufacturing and trafficking is still illegal and part of the underworld, leaving many of the problems intact and failing to address the root problem. But, at least it keeps nonviolent users out of the prisons and, hopefully, nudges those who need help with their addictions into care.

Regardless of all other factors, jailing the users is clearly not the solution.

Apreche

Regardless of all other factors, jailing the users is clearly not the solution.

Well, the other problem here is that it only seems they've kept it legal to have a small personal amount. In other words, the drug cartels can't become legitimate businesses that sell to Mexicans. Nor can their economy get a boost by someone else starting such a business.

GreatTeacherMacRoss

I smell a Thursday show.

Rym

I smell a Thursday show.

Legalize Marijuana, regulate and tax it as you would alcoholic cigarettes. For other drugs, possession/use is a crime punishable by a small fine and/or counseling at most. Done.

TheWhaleShark

I smell a Thursday show.

Legalize Marijuana, regulate and tax it as you would alcoholic cigarettes. For other drugs, possession/use is a crime punishable by a small fine and/or counseling at most. Done.

You wouldn't advocate the legalization of all drugs? I'm on the fence about stuff like cocaine and heroin. It absolutely destroys your health and your life, but if we educate people as to the actual risks associated with those drugs, I see no compelling reason to stop people from killing themselves with drugs.

I'm fairly certain, though, that once the pusher is removed from the drug use equation, we'll see a huge dropoff in the usage of hard drugs.

Rym

I see no compelling reason to stop people from killing themselves with drugs.

No, but it's pragmatic to have a legal structure in place to at least force them into counseling once or twice. We already do this with certain other mental disorders under mental hygiene laws. It is highly unlikely that anyone using heroin on a regular enough basis to be arrested for it is happy or productive.

Thing is, these drugs should not be illegal, but they should be regulated like any prescription drug. The fact that heroin is illegal, but straight-up deadly poison is not, shows the clear contradictions in our current system.

TheWhaleShark

No, but it's pragmatic to have a legal structure in place to at least force them into counseling once or twice. We already do this with certain other mental disorders under mental hygiene laws. It is highly unlikely that anyone using heroin on a regular enough basis to be arrested for it is happy or productive.

True enough. That certainly sounds reasonable. We already have some organizations in place for drug treatment and rehab (Phoenix House springs to mind), so there's definitely both a precedent and infrastructure in place to support that.

This is definitely a positive step for Mexico, and I'm hoping that the US will eventually get the hint and take similar steps. It's ridiculously unlikely, but it's nice to think that policy reforms like this can have a ripple effect. This will definitely be interesting to watch.

Kate Monster

I see no compelling reason to stop people from killing themselves with drugs.

The problem is that drug user don't just hurt themselves, they hurt their children, their families, their neighbors, etc. While decriminalizing drugs may stop some issues with drug related crime, drugs will still cost money and those hooked on the harder stuff will be unable to finance their habit except in less than legal/safe ways. Also, the drugs themselves can push them into violent and risky behavior. They will still get into cars, purchase handguns, etc. Lighter drugs, particularly marijuana, aren't the issue here. A light fine and a counseling session or two aren't enough. While I do not think that jailing these individuals is the right answer, I do think that long-term psychiatric and medical treatment combined with education, job training, and continued observation upon release from medical treatment is necessary.

EDIT: On a semi-related note, can we please get God out of rehab?

Rym

The problem is that drug user don't just hurt themselves, they hurt their children, their families, their neighbors, etc.

There are people who cause just as much harm to their families and neighbors with legal drugs like alcohol, or even just for being idiots. Alcohol is legal because prohibition clearly doesn't work, so the alternative of drunk idiots causing problems is accepted as better than the problems of trying to prevent drinking. I see no reason to believe that other drugs will cause any problems worse than the attempts at stopping them have been.

Also, the drugs themselves can push them into violent and risky behavior. They will still get into cars, purchase handguns, etc.

Alcohol has the same problems. And, all of these behaviors are already illegal. Further making the drugs themselves illegal accomplishes nothing. Crashing your car gets you in trouble regardless of if you crashed it because you were high, or if because you were an idiot.

Make the destructive and disruptive behavior illegal, not the cause of the behavior. If we can't jail someone for choosing to live their life stupidly without drugs, we have no moral reason to jail them for living equally stupidly with drugs. The moment we force treatment for these problems on these people, we set a dangerous precedent for forcing other lifestyle changes. If I can jail a heroin user to get them off heroin, shouldn't I also be able a stupid person and force an education upon them, or a morbidly obese person and force a healthy lifestyle on them? Should I be able to jail an alcoholic and force him to stop drinking? What if he earnestly wants to drink himself to death?

EDIT: On a semi-related note, can we please get God out of rehab?

How about out of government entirely? Religious organizations should have no privileges whatsoever beyond those afforded to secular organizations, and no person should ever be ordered into any religious organization's care or treatment under any circumstances by a judge or law.

Kate Monster

@ Rym: I am not saying don't decriminalize, just have a greater support system in place than a mere fine and a token counseling session. I feel the same way about alcoholics. We need to treat this as a disease, not a crime. If someone can recreationaly use without causing harm to society, then bully. If they have a problem or start harming others, then they need treatment. If their illegal/harmful behavior is caused by drugs, then treatment needs to be part of the package in their sentencing for whatever else they are doing. I think you misunderstood my point or I did not articulate it clearly enough.

Jason

EDIT: On a semi-related note, can we please get God out of rehab?

He checked himself in, he can check himself out.

Rym

He checked himself in, he can check himself out.

Touché, good sir.

HungryJoe

I smell a Thursday show.

Legalize Marijuana, regulate and tax it as you would alcoholic cigarettes. For other drugs, possession/use is a crime punishable by a small fine and/or counseling at most. Done.

What, What, What?!! Where do you get these magic cigarettes? I wants, I really, really, wants!

The only thing better - alcoholic clove cigarettes.

DarthFasa

The cigarette are next to the headlight fluid. Across from the elbow grease.

Anyone have any ideas how the USA is going to react to this? I thought *our* drug policy included bullying other countries into doing the same.

Rym

I thought *our* drug policy included bullying other countries into doing the same.

It verymuch is, and Mexico basically just told us in no uncertain terms to stfu and gbtw.

Churba

What, What, What?!! Where do you get these magic cigarettes? I wants, I really, really, wants!

The only thing better - alcoholic clove cigarettes.

Better again - Alcoholic pipe tobacco. Good lord yes.

HungryJoe

What, What, What?!! Where do you get these magic cigarettes? I wants, I really, really, wants!

The only thing better - alcoholic clove cigarettes.

Better again - Alcoholic pipe tobacco. Good lord yes.

I used to toy with this idea of fried beer. I thought that maybe I could somehow gel beer, form it into rolls, bread it, and deep fry it. If it worked right, it would look like mozarella sticks - which led to another idea: Fried Cheezy Beer.

I've tried to make it work a couple of times, but I haven't had much luck yet.

Churba

I used to toy with this idea of fried beer. I thought that maybe I could somehow gel beer, form it into rolls, bread it, and deep fry it. If it worked right, it would look like mozarella sticks - which led to another idea: Fried Cheezy Beer.

I've tried to make it work a couple of times, but I haven't had much luck yet.

hmmm....I'll have a chat to my old boss, Anthony Finn, he might have a few ideas.

Σπεκωσποκ

Obama's taking steps in the right direction: if I recall correctly, he told the DEA to stop raiding medical marijuana shops a couple of months ago. The two party system is the only thing getting between our president (once a casual drug user himself) and legalizing marijuana in some capacity.

HungryJoe

Obama's taking steps in the right direction: if I recall correctly, he told the DEA to stop raiding medical marijuana shops a couple of months ago. The two party system is the only thing getting between our president (once a casual drug user himself) and legalizing marijuana in some capacity.

If it was legalized, regulated, and taxed at an appropriate rate, it would throw the economy into hyperdrive.

Dkong

I smell a Thursday show.

Legalize Marijuana, regulate and tax it as you wouldalcoholic cigarettes. For other drugs, possession/use is a crime punishable by a small fine and/or counseling at most. Done.

What, What, What?!! Where do you get these magic cigarettes? I wants, I really, really, wants!

The only thing better - alcoholic clove cigarettes.

Dammit you beat me to it!

Anyways, it's late and I have to work in the morning...I'll read the rest of the thread later and likely post some reactions (though pretty much anything I'd have to say has already been said from what I have already read).