Personally, I don't give two shits about what happens after I'm dead, because I'll be dead. But as a courtesy to those close to me, I will not burden them with large expensive funerals or expensive web sites. If that is what they choose, then so be it. I'm dead, what I think doesn't matter.
We are not talking about you, Scott, we are talking about the people sad that you are gone who want to archive your information and keep it so that your great great great..... ok.. I know that's assuming you ever reproduce but lets assume someone is researching 47th president of the United States Scott Johnson, and they want to know what his dear deseased friend Scott Rubin was like since he influenced him in so many ways when he was beaten by a horde of angry pacifists. Wouldn't it be handy to have a site that collected data and info on people soon after they died and held it in case future generations wanted to look back at their own great great grand parents..
but then I wonder if they would just encounter Joe and Steve's Rape kit conversation and forget about it....
Joe, it seems you're really worried about people remembering you after you are gone.
No. I don't really care at all. I don't really care for myself and I don't really have any family left that would care. However, I know enough about the world to know that there are people who care about such things and who have family that care about such things. I know that it might be hard for you to understand that someone may take up a position that they have no purely selfish stake in defending, but there it is. I would most likely be cremated if I died. I would then ask to be spread in a library.
If you want to be remembered, maybe you should do something great that people will remember you for rather than just buying a rock. Everyone buys a rock. That doesn't make you special. To be remembered you need to either do something really great or really terrible. You need to be the kind of person that is loved, reviled, or both, by many.
I don't share this need you seem to feel to be famous. I don't care whether I'm famous. I seriously don't. That's not to say it would be nice. Certainly it would be nice, but other than it happening by accident, it's not something I'm planning for or seeking out.
Still, the two points stand.
1) Why do you care if you are remembered if you are dead? What does that say about you as a person now?
As I said, I don't care, but I know that there are people who do. You'd have to ask them about their motives.
2) Even if you want to be remembered, neither a web site nor a stone in a field of many, are good ways to accomplish this goal.
In this case stone > website because anyone who wants to be remembered and who has family that wants to remember him/her will be better served by the stone. I really don't understand why you have this need to think that internet wins over everything.
In this case stone > website because anyone who wants to be remembered and who has family that wants to remember him/her will be better served by the stone. I really don't understand why you have this need to think that internet wins over everything.
Advantages of stone: 1) Possible lower cost over extremely great lengths of time. 2) Possibly accessible in apocalypse scenarios, e.g: no more electricity. 3) Traditions make some people feel good.
Advantages of Internet: 1) Can bee seen by anyone at any time in almost any place on earth for almost no cost. 2) Can include effectively infinite amount of text, photos, video, audio, etc. Can have an unlimited amount of text. 3) Much easier to produce, few special skills required. 4) Can be edited. Uncover a lost photo album? Slap it up there! 5) Requires far fewer physical resources such as labor, materials, land, etc. Green people like this. 6) Web site itself may go away, but memory of person might actually last longer to increased exposure to memorial as compared to a stone in a sea of many. 7) Requires less frequent maintenance. Maintenance is only required once every few years when technology of companies shift whereas physical plot requires seasonal maintenance. 8) Even if you aren't concerned about fame, the few people who care the most will not be geographically restricted by the location of a stone. Moving to California and leaving grandpa's cemetery in NY makes you feel bad. If it's a web site or some other portable memorial, then go as you please.
Advantages of Internet: 1) Can bee seen by anyone at any time in almost any place on earth for almost no cost.
Irrelevant. Most people in the U.S. don't care whether people in China know about their deceased loved ones and vice versa.
2) Can include effectively infinite amount of text, photos, video, audio, etc. Can have an unlimited amount of text.
Irrelevant. People will have that anyway. It's easy enough to have that AND the physical memorial. They can actually go visit the physical memorial and keep that other stuff at home whether they have a website or not.
3) Much easier to produce, few special skills required.
Debatable. Most people wouldn't want a site a middle school kid could whip up for them.
4) Can be edited. Uncover a lost photo album? Slap it up there!
Irrelevant. See (2). You can easily have both the content and the memorial. Why is having the content alone an advantage? I'll tell you: It's not.
5) Requires far fewer physical resources such as labor, materials, land, etc. Green people like this.
Do you even know how little labor is involved with digging a grave? The only possible merit this point has is the use of land, which was discussed earlier.
6) Web site itself may go away, but memory of person might actually last longer to increased exposure to memorial as compared to a stone in a sea of many.
A person might be more worthy of being remembered because they were on the internet? Fail
7) Requires less frequent maintenance. Maintenance is only required once every few years when technology of companies shift whereas physical plot requires seasonal maintenance.
No. Again, when was the last time you were in a cemetery? What seasonal maintenance do you think a tombstone requires?
. 8) Even if you aren't concerned about fame, the few people who care the most will not be geographically restricted by the location of a stone. Moving to California and leaving grandpa's cemetery in NY makes you feel bad. If it's a web site or some other portable memorial, then go as you please.
As hard as it may be for you to believe, technology boy, some people actually feel comfort thinking that a deceased loved one is near their old home. People (normal people anyway) sometimes gain comfort from knowing that their loved one's remains are at a physical location they can visit. They sometime gain further comfort by thinking that those remains are near the deceased person's home, where the deceased person would want to be, even if they can't easily visit them.
Advantages of stone: 1) Possible lower cost over extremely great lengths of time.
At least you get this.
Would you rather be remembered by a rock, or by people, Joe?
As I've said, I don't really have any people left, I will probably not have a rock if I die, and I don't particularly care if I'm remembered.
If you want to know what's important to me, it would be location over remembrance. I don't really care about being remembered, but if I was terminal, it would give me comfort to think that my remains would be in a place that I liked. I'm serious about ashes in a library. Or possibly on the Mall in DC.
As hard as it may be for you to believe, technology boy, some people actually feel comfort thinking that a deceased loved one is near their old home. People (normal people anyway) sometimes gain comfort from knowing that their loved one's remains are at a physical location they can visit. They sometime gain further comfort by thinking that those remains are near the deceased person's home, where the deceased person would want to be, even if they can't easily visit them.
Normal people are weird.
As I've said, I don't really have any people left, I will probably not have a rock if I die, and I don't particularly care if I'm remembered.
As I've said, I don't really have any people left, I will probably not have a rock if I die, and I don't particularly care if I'm remembered.
We'll remember you.
Awww. That's a nice thought, but I'll be here long after all of you are dust.
But really, the idea that my remains end up in a place that I feel happy in during life (like any library, comic book store, or the mall in DC) is more meaningful to me than the idea that I might be remembered.
Awww. That's a nice thought, but I'll be here long after all of you are dust.
But really, the idea that my remains end up in a place that I feel happy in during life (like any library, comic book store, or the mall in DC) is more meaningful to me than the idea that I might be remembered.
That is completely backwards from my concerns. I don't give a damn about the matter that formed my body or where it goes. If it can be useful to people, then they can have it. If isn't useful, just dispose of it in the cheapest, most efficient means possible. However, I care a great deal that the people I know and love remember me and that that memory will always be a part of them.
Irrelevant. Most people in the U.S. don't care whether people in China know about their deceased loved ones and vice versa.
I have moved 25 times in 19 years, and the general shift is towards a more mobile populace (at least in this country). If I wanted to visit a memorial for, say, my grandfather, I might not know where to go or be able to go there.
Irrelevant. People will have that anyway. It's easy enough to have that AND the physical memorial. They can actually go visit the physical memorial and keep that other stuff at home whether they have a website or not.
You cannot fit an infinite amount of text on a physical memorial. In fact, it's extremely difficult to find out information about a dead person simply going from their tombstone.
Debatable. Most people wouldn't want a site a middle school kid could whip up for them.
This was a common argument against business websites a few years ago. Why would a respectable company want their public image to be something a middle school kid could create?
Irrelevant. See (2). You can easily have both the content and the memorial. Why is having the content alone an advantage? I'll tell you: It's not.
Content == memorial.
Do you even know how little labor is involved with digging a grave? The only possible merit this point has is the use of land, which was discussed earlier.
Land, materials (gravestone, etc), upkeep.
A person might be more worthy of being remembered because they were on the internet? Fail
No. Again, when was the last time you were in a cemetery? What seasonal maintenance do you think a tombstone requires?
In places where there are seasons, the is necessary upkeep. I've lived next to a few cemeteries on the east coast, and they employee a moderate staff of gardeners, stone-workers, and such. Also, administrative staff, etc.
As hard as it may be for you to believe, technology boy, some people actually feel comfort thinking that a deceased loved one is near their old home. People (normal people anyway) sometimes gain comfort from knowing that their loved one's remains are at a physical location they can visit. They sometime gain further comfort by thinking that those remains are near the deceased person's home, where the deceased person would want to be, even if they can't easily visit them.
Again, people are more mobile than they've ever been. A lot of techies share a greater cultural heritage with the Internet than with the geographic location of their residence.
tl;dr Gravestones don't say much about a person, and a central repository of information would be mighty convenient.
Yoshokatana, I'm typing this on my phone so please forgive me for not quoting all the bits of your post I want to answer.
Let me start by saying that, if you can seriously envison not being able to find your grandfather's grave, you have bigger problems than worrying about internet memorials. To use a term that gets bandied about too often here, finding your grandfather's grave should be "trivial".
Now, while you may have seen some staff at a private cemetery, I have seen many cemeteries in churchyards and even on family farms (we actually had one) that had no staff and no maintenance at all. The stones remain atnding to this day.
To a big geek, or maybe an artist, it might be within the realm of possibility that content itself could be a memorial. Most people, though, are not like that. Most people don't produce a lot of content and most of those people's families want to remember a person, not facts and content about the person. They can keep the facts and content and still want to have a physical place where they can go and inagine that they are somehow close to the person.
Let me start by saying that, if you can seriously envison not being able to find your grandfather's grave, you have bigger problems than worrying about internet memorials. To use a term that gets bandied about too often here, finding your grandfather's grave should be "trivial".
Actually, most of my grandparents are still alive (I don't know about my maternal grandfather; he was a bad man and left the family, so they say). My point was moreso that it's not trivial to travel to a gravesite that may be somewhere around the country (or the world). For instance, I think my maternal-maternal-great grandmother's grave is somewhere in Bisigniano, Italy, but I have no way of checking that (without either going to Bisigniano and braving ITALIAN BUREAUCRACY to find the burial record, or going to Agropoli, Italy and asking family there).
Most people don't produce a lot of content and most of those people's families want to remember a person, not facts and content about the person. They can keep the facts and content and still want to have a physical place where they can go and inagine that they are somehow close to the person.
Fair enough. I personally value the facts about ancestors more than the the place they're buried, but I know a lot of people value that highly. You have a point.
As for upkeep, it seems there is a lot of variation in how much it costs to run a cemetery. I'm more familiar with large ones, so I didn't think about the family farms. Your point makes sense, though.
Awww. That's a nice thought, but I'll be here long after all of you are dust.
But really, the idea that my remains end up in a place that I feel happy in during life (like any library, comic book store, or the mall in DC) is more meaningful to me than the idea that I might be remembered.
That is completely backwards from my concerns. I don't give a damn about the matter that formed my body or where it goes. If it can be useful to people, then they can have it. If isn't useful, just dispose of it in the cheapest, most efficient means possible. However, I care a great deal that the people I know and love remember me and that that memory will always be a part of them.
I don't so much mean that I care what happens to my remains or that I want to keep them all intact. When I say that I care where I go I'm talking about physical ashes and maybe a little bit of spirit - as in at least enough to appreciate that "I" am in a place where I was happy when I was alive.
Also, if you're cremated, you won't come back as a zombie.
Comments
but then I wonder if they would just encounter Joe and Steve's Rape kit conversation and forget about it....
1) Possible lower cost over extremely great lengths of time.
2) Possibly accessible in apocalypse scenarios, e.g: no more electricity.
3) Traditions make some people feel good.
Advantages of Internet:
1) Can bee seen by anyone at any time in almost any place on earth for almost no cost.
2) Can include effectively infinite amount of text, photos, video, audio, etc. Can have an unlimited amount of text.
3) Much easier to produce, few special skills required.
4) Can be edited. Uncover a lost photo album? Slap it up there!
5) Requires far fewer physical resources such as labor, materials, land, etc. Green people like this.
6) Web site itself may go away, but memory of person might actually last longer to increased exposure to memorial as compared to a stone in a sea of many.
7) Requires less frequent maintenance. Maintenance is only required once every few years when technology of companies shift whereas physical plot requires seasonal maintenance.
8) Even if you aren't concerned about fame, the few people who care the most will not be geographically restricted by the location of a stone. Moving to California and leaving grandpa's cemetery in NY makes you feel bad. If it's a web site or some other portable memorial, then go as you please.
If you want to know what's important to me, it would be location over remembrance. I don't really care about being remembered, but if I was terminal, it would give me comfort to think that my remains would be in a place that I liked. I'm serious about ashes in a library. Or possibly on the Mall in DC.
But really, the idea that my remains end up in a place that I feel happy in during life (like any library, comic book store, or the mall in DC) is more meaningful to me than the idea that I might be remembered.
tl;dr Gravestones don't say much about a person, and a central repository of information would be mighty convenient.
Let me start by saying that, if you can seriously envison not being able to find your grandfather's grave, you have bigger problems than worrying about internet memorials. To use a term that gets bandied about too often here, finding your grandfather's grave should be "trivial".
Now, while you may have seen some staff at a private cemetery, I have seen many cemeteries in churchyards and even on family farms (we actually had one) that had no staff and no maintenance at all. The stones remain atnding to this day.
To a big geek, or maybe an artist, it might be within the realm of possibility that content itself could be a memorial. Most people, though, are not like that. Most people don't produce a lot of content and most of those people's families want to remember a person, not facts and content about the person. They can keep the facts and content and still want to have a physical place where they can go and inagine that they are somehow close to the person.
As for upkeep, it seems there is a lot of variation in how much it costs to run a cemetery. I'm more familiar with large ones, so I didn't think about the family farms. Your point makes sense, though.
Also, if you're cremated, you won't come back as a zombie.