GeekNights 100113 - Final Thoughts Master Keaton

Apreche

Tonight on GeekNights we give you our final thoughts on Master Keaton. In the news, Anime Expo is full of drama and a friend of Tezuka is making good on a promise.

Dred Lily

Hmm..have you yet to record the show? ^^; Seems the link isn't downloading anything..

Churba

Hmm..have you yet to record the show? ^^; Seems the link isn't downloading anything..

Propably just hasn't or is in the middle of uploading.

Sail

I think it's a Libsyn problem. Either that or it didn't upload properly.

Apreche

I think it's a Libsyn problem. Either that or it didn't upload properly.

Yeah, seems like a failed upload. Rym was bragging about how his FIOS uploaded the episode in 12 seconds. Guess it was too much for Libsyn to handle. He has to reupload it, I can't fix it.

Rym

It shows as uploaded when I check. Deleting and re-adding.

Rym

Uploaded again. 40522769 bytes sent in 11.05 secs (3580.4 kB/s). I was able to wget the file. ^_~

Churba

Works now. Thanks Rym!

Dred Lily

*bows* Thank you, kind sir

Victor Frost

Uploaded again. 40522769 bytes sent in 11.05 secs (3580.4 kB/s). I was able to wget the file. ^_~

Holy fuck. I needs me some FIOS.

Bobblun

I would pay $10 for an exclusive GeekNights Diploma. I could hang it in my cube and impress the co-workers. It could be a nice little fund raiser for your next con. You could just send me a PDF that I can print myself.

Rym

I would pay $10 for an exclusive GeekNights Diploma. I could hang it in my cube and impress the co-workers. It could be a nice little fund raiser for your next con.

Tell you what. I'll do it. But, it's in the queue until I make some ecommerce... ^_~).

Once I have the apartment completely squared away, that's my attack-only-one.

Bobblun

I'll do it.

That will be awesome. Thanks.

Rym

That will be awesome.

it's in the queue until I make some ecommerce...

Manage your expectations.

Cremlian

Manage your expectations.

That's sort of ok, almost crossing into disappointing then? ^_^

Neito

Speaking of awesome Urasawa stuff that's not constant mystery, have either of you read Billy Bat?

Li_Akahi

Scott, Hypnosis is not Randi bullshit. I have been hypnotized on many occasions (all through hypnosis shows) and it does actually work. It just doesn't work like it does in TV and movies.

Rym

Scott, Hypnosis is not Randi bullshit.

I simply point out that there are many, many fake certifications and diplomas for "hypnotherapists." The "certifications" for it are loose, the research is fairly inconclusive, and there is a great deal of fraud and vagary surrounding the idea.

Also, to note:

Recent research has shown that weight loss and cessation of smoking, both popularly advertised as curable by hypnotism, cannot be accomplished without the earnest desire of the sufferer to achieve the desired result; this leads to the question of whether or not the results might be as easily attained by some other form of approach, such as religious inspiration, the caring of a family member, or the intervention of another mystic-sounding but ineffective therapy.

Axel

Scott, Hypnosis is not Randi bullshit. I have been hypnotized on many occasions (all through hypnosis shows) and it does actually work. It just doesn't work like it does in TV and movies.

I concur. One of my dad's friends was hypnotized live in front of him, and did all sorts of strange things, including speak languages he did not know, and do other strange things, with no apparent memory afterwards.

Rym

One of my dad's friends was hypnotized live in front of him, and did all sorts of strange things, including speak languages he did not know, and do other strange things, with no apparent memory afterwards.

He's most likely lying. Hypnotism doesn't work that way.

Cremlian

I mean there are people who believe they are talking in tongues as well... and they are not hypnotized..

Li_Akahi

I simply point out that there are many, many fake certifications and diplomas for "hypnotherapists." The "certifications" for it are loose, the research is fairly inconclusive, and there is a great deal of fraud and vagary surrounding the idea.

I must have misunderstood what Scott said. I understand that hypnotherapy is more than likely Randi bullshit, but hypnosis definitely is not.

I concur. One of my dad's friends was hypnotized live in front of him, and did all sorts of strange things, including speak languages he did not know, and do other strange things, with no apparent memory afterwards.

When someone is hypnotized, they can only do things that they know how to do before hand and you can only do things that are morally okay before hand. Also, every time I have been hypnotized, I have had memory of what I did afterwards.

Apreche

You know optical illusions? You think you see one thing, but that's not really what's there. I saw David Copperfield cut someone in half with a chainsaw, but that's not really what happened. I took a sugar pill, and it cured my cold, but that's not true either.

If there is one thing that separates skeptics from everyone else it is that skeptics realize that their own senses and own brain can not be trusted in the least.

If hypnotism is anything, it's basically the art of tricking people's brains. A hypnotists just tells you to do things, and you do them willingly. However, they put on this big production, so that you think you did these things due to hypnotism instead of because of your own free will.

Also, consider this. If psychic powers were real, like fortune telling, why do people who have these powers work in carnivals? Wouldn't they be working for the government making really important decisions? The reason they aren't is because psychics are bullshit.

The same logic applies to hypnotism. Why do hypnotists use it for entertainment purposes, and for other boring things like hypnotherapy? If it were real, we could train all of our CIA agents in hypnotism. Also, why don't evil governments, like China and North Korea, train TV news anchors in hypnotism to control the populace? It's because it doesn't fucking work.

Magicians only use their "magic" for entertainment purposes. That is because most of them do not try to claim that they have any actual magic powers. They let you know that everything is just a trick. That is why magicians like James Randi and Penn&Teller are the people who are calling out all these scam artists. They recognize that these charlatans are just using the same magic tricks, except they extort people by claiming the tricks are not tricks. Hypnotism, I think, clearly falls into this realm.

Li_Akahi

If it were real, we could train all of our CIA agents in hypnotism. Also, why don't evil governments, like China and North Korea, train TV news anchors in hypnotism to control the populace? It's because it doesn't fucking work.

Hypnosis doesn't work like that, one has to be willing to be hypnotized in order for it to happen.

If hypnotism is anything, it's basically the art of tricking people's brains.

It most definitely is, but what is most interesting about the whole experience is that your body actually feels what the hypnotizer is suggesting. I always get hypnotized at the Renaissance Festival when I go, it's always a very fun experience. He always does an example dealing with hot and cold temperatures and when he did it, I genuinely felt hot and cold.

What I am trying to say is that I agree with the fact that Hypnotherapy is mostly Randi bullshit (I don't know enough about the field to speak definitively about it), but hypnosis does work for entertainment at the least.

Rym

one has to be willing to be hypnotized in order for it to happen.

Based on what? There are very few authoritative sources of the actual definitions of the concepts involved. Is that statement simply common knowledge, or do you have a source to back it up? How have they tested whether or not a person is "willing?" What is the definition of "willing" in this case?

but hypnosis does work for entertainment at the least.

Define "work?"

If one has to be "willing," then is this really hypnosis, or simply suggestion? Could it not be nothing more than an ideomotor response, or even just a purely psychosomatic one? What makes "hypnosis" a meaningful differentiation from these concepts?

I agree that there are some minor affects that can be achieved with procedures similar to what we commonly call "hypnosis," but I call bullshit on "hypnosis" being a useful or meaningful word.

TheWhaleShark

Based on what? There are very few authoritative sources of the actual definitions of the concepts involved. Is that statement simply common knowledge, or do you have a source to back it up? How have they tested whether or not a person is "willing?" What is the definition of "willing" in this case?

Performance hypnotists themselves will tell you that it only works if you want it to work. It's the same as any other magic trick; the only way it "fools" you is if you allow yourself to be fooled.

Hypnotherapists are predatory assholes.

"Hypnosis" as a word is best used to refer to the stage performance. Ambiguous use of a word does not itself make the concept or the practice invalid; it simply means that we need to better define our terms. It's like the misuse of the word "theory."

EDIT:

If one has to be "willing," then is this really hypnosis, or simply suggestion? Could it not be nothing more than an ideomotor response, or even just a purely psychosomatic one? What makes "hypnosis" a meaningful differentiation from these concepts?

Performance hypnosis, again, is suggestion. It only "works" on suggestible people. It's differentiated in the context of a performance art.

The issue arises when some people take this simple magic trick, claim that it's real, and then use it as a therapeutic tool. Those people are practitioners of Randi bullshit. Stage hypnotists are technically purveyors of Randi bullshit, but no more than the Amazing Randi.

Rym

Ambiguous use of a word does not itself make the concept or the practice invalid; it simply means that we need to better define our terms.

And if there are sufficient terms to precisely describe the concept already, another ambiguous word is useless.

TheWhaleShark

And if there are sufficient terms to precisely describe the concept already, another ambiguous word is useless.

Or we use one word to describe the stage performance, to make our communication more efficient. I again point to the "theory" problem; we have sufficient words to entirely circumvent the problem, but if we clarify the word "theory" in common speech, there is no need to circumvent.

EDIT: The problem is again one of a particular subset using a word to make their bullshit sound legitimate. ADHD is a real behavioral disorder, but many parents will say that their child suffers from it when they really don't. We call people "crazy" even though they're not clinically insane. This is a common phenomenon in language, but the phenomenon does not make the word itself useless.

EDIT 2: Although, technically, there is no need to differentiate stage hypnosis from the hypnosis performed by a hypnotherapist. They're the exact same thing; that is, they're the same magic trick. The difference is that, with a stage hypnotist, both parties understand that it's a trick. A hypnotherapist does the exact same thing but lies about it.

The technique only requires one word. The practitioner requires differential identification.

sucrilhos

Yeah finally I can partake on something, since Master Keaton is on youtube. I'm not done watching it yet so I'll wait to read the posts and listen to the podcast.

Eryn

I told you guys over a year-and-a-half ago that Lesbian Pirates was a webcomic. :P

Also, if you reviewed Mahou Tsukai Tai/Magic User's Club, I think I would about die of happiness. That is probably my favourite comedic anime of all time, no fooling. Also probably one of my favourite dubs of all time. It's often on par with or better than the Japanese original, especially on the part of Takeo's English VA. Sae's VA is one of the very few English speakers I've heard that can get that cute, high-pitched girl voice right in a (mostly) non-annoying way, too.

Bobblun

I'll do it.

That will be awesome. Thanks.

So, ummmm, how's it going?