Angel was awesome. I have the DVD box set. It's not that I don't like serious; it's that I don't think Buffy does it well. For example, I'm towards the end of episode 19 of Season 6 right now, and Spike and Buffy had that rape scene. But Spike has never been stronger than Buffy, and why did Buffy suddenly become this pathetic victim? It was contrived and stupid. As we'd already seen countless times before, it would've gone "Spike lays a hand on her that she doesn't like" -> "Buffy immediately puts her fist through his torso, calls him a cunt, and leaves with her dignity intact". The only reason I can tell that they would suddenly portray a god-slaying superhero badass as a suddenly impotent rape victim is for cheap shock value.
And Wesley didn't get it nearly as bad as Spike. He was a ponce. He got tortured. He was a ponce. He got stabbed in the throat. He was a villain-boning hardass motherfucker. All-in-all, not a bad trade.
EDIT: Okay, I just hit the end of 19. And, while I would say the gun thing was just completely arbitrary and not in fitting with the character's personality and MO, I've also been waiting for someone to do that forever.
Here's my list of skippable and non-essential episodes in season 1 and the beginning of season 2 for anyone who wants to get started on watching the series. This will get you past the silly episodes to the meat of the show in the shortest time commitment possible. I've also included the minute plot details from each episode that are referred to later in the show but are ultimately not so important or get explored more thoroughly later on.
Season 1 *Episode 4 - "Teacher's Pet": Xander is seduced by a teacher who is actually a preying mantis. *Episode 6 - "The Pack": Xander and some other random people are possessed by hyena spirits and eat the principal. *Episode 9 - "The Puppet Show": There is a new principal who hates Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles. *Episode 10 - "Nightmares": Buffy has a fear that she was partially responsible for her parents' divorce. *Episode 11 - "Out of Mind, Out of Sight": Buffy saves Cordelia's ass, again.
Season 2 *Episode 4 - "Inca Mummy Girl": Xander dates a mummy that tries to suck the lifeforce out of him. *Episode 5 - "Reptile Boy": Buffy gets sad and bitches about the age difference between her and Angel. *Episode 11 - "Ted": Buffy's mom dates a man who turns out to be a robot. Giles and Ms. Calendar kiss.
So, I've finally gotten around to watching Angel. I just finished episode 2x17 (the Harmony one), and I've gotta say -- I'm not really that into it. Now, I'm totally down for slogging through the early, crappy stuff if it's going to get really good. I did it with Buffy, and I'm immensely glad I did. But Buffy was already getting great by this point, and Angel -- well, the plot's picked up a bit, but I actually feel like the dialogue, the acting, the "dramatic" moments between the characters -- all that stuff is actually getting worse.
So, for those of you who've seen all of Angel, especially those of you who liked it -- can you please give me your opinion? Considering that I'm this far in and still not digging it, is it likely to "get better"? Or is Angel just not for me?
So, for those of you who've seen all of Angel, especially those of you who liked it -- can you please give me your opinion? Considering that I'm this far in and still not digging it, is it likely to "get better"? Or is Angel just not for me?
Of the five seasons of angel I like the fifth the most, after getting really dark in season 2 for a while it starts to become a bit more fantasy (with them getting sucked into a fantasy world for a while) which can be funny at times. All and all, the character to focus on is Wesley, you'll see very soon his character start changing more and more until by the end of season five.. well you'll have to see for yourself. There is a lot to like in Angel but it definitely has it's ups and downs especially when Cordelia forgets how to act. If you get to a point where you don't want to continue I suggest maybe jumping straight to season 5, you'll miss some of the pay off moments but they tried to reboot the show and because Buffy ended a lot of Buffy characters make appearances in it.
@Cremlian -- thanks for the tips. Just finished season 2, and pretty much can't go on. We'll probably make another run at it in a couple years. I fully intend to get through Angel eventually, even if just for completeness' sake. I've also heard a lot about how interesting Wesley's arc is, and I want to see that. I just can't do it right now.
Watching season 2 (of Buffy not Angel) now. Love it, especially since Angel turned into an awesome motherfucker who fucks up motherfuckers shit on a regular basis. And most importantly, lost the simpering Twilight-esque romance. And I'm not against romance. I like literally every other romance in this show. I've even grown to like Charisma Carpenter (I know her character name, but when you've got a name like that, you don't waste it.)
And I'm not against romance. I like literally every other romance in this show.
I never really felt like the Buffy/Angel relationship was very well-developed. Yeah, they're totally cosmically in love with each other, but...why? But it's season 1-2, so it gets a pass.
Yeah, they're totally cosmically in love with each other, but...why?
Because Buffy is a 16-year-old girl and Angel is just hopelessly fucked up? I never had much trouble believing it, given that neither of these characters at this point in the series are capable of a mature relationship.
Because Buffy is a 16-year-old girl and Angel is just hopelessly fucked up? I never had much trouble believing it, given that neither of these characters at this point in the series are capable of a mature relationship.
Yeah, I think you're right about that. I should've been more clear -- it's not that I had an issue with these characters being so crazy about each other. It's just that I don't feel like the show did a good job of developing the actual relationship between them, and showing us what it's based on.
Then again, a 200-something year old guy being in love with a 16 year old girl is another thing entirely. Maybe vampires have arrested emotional development. I'm 32, and I can barely stand talking to most 16 year olds.
To be honest, I'm wondering how you can build up 200 odd years of life experience in both a world that we know, and the mystical world of the show that most people don't, and yet still be the most boring, whiny fuck that anyone encounters out of that group?
Wait, Spike got a soul and he wasn't a whiny bitch right?
I thought he didn't get a soul. He got a chip. Much different. And yes, he WAS a whiny bitch about it. And significantly more creepy about his love interest.
I thought he didn't get a soul. He got a chip. Much different. And yes, he WAS a whiny bitch about it. And significantly more creepy about his love interest.
Spoilers - He gets a soul of his very own in season six.
For the people who have seen Buffy and haven't watched Angel yet, or for anyone who has seen David Boreanaz in anything else, these 15 seconds shouldn't be missed:
I watched all of Buffy and Angel on DVD over the course of a couple years. I did my fair share of bitching and MST3k'ing throughout the course of each and I'm not sure I would have finished if my wife hadn't threatened to watch them without me, but I'm glad I did.
Comments
And Wesley didn't get it nearly as bad as Spike. He was a ponce. He got tortured. He was a ponce. He got stabbed in the throat. He was a villain-boning hardass motherfucker. All-in-all, not a bad trade.
EDIT: Okay, I just hit the end of 19. And, while I would say the gun thing was just completely arbitrary and not in fitting with the character's personality and MO, I've also been waiting for someone to do that forever.
Season 1
*Episode 4 - "Teacher's Pet": Xander is seduced by a teacher who is actually a preying mantis.
*Episode 6 - "The Pack": Xander and some other random people are possessed by hyena spirits and eat the principal.
*Episode 9 - "The Puppet Show": There is a new principal who hates Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles.
*Episode 10 - "Nightmares": Buffy has a fear that she was partially responsible for her parents' divorce.
*Episode 11 - "Out of Mind, Out of Sight": Buffy saves Cordelia's ass, again.
Season 2
*Episode 4 - "Inca Mummy Girl": Xander dates a mummy that tries to suck the lifeforce out of him.
*Episode 5 - "Reptile Boy": Buffy gets sad and bitches about the age difference between her and Angel.
*Episode 11 - "Ted": Buffy's mom dates a man who turns out to be a robot. Giles and Ms. Calendar kiss.
Enjoy!
So, for those of you who've seen all of Angel, especially those of you who liked it -- can you please give me your opinion? Considering that I'm this far in and still not digging it, is it likely to "get better"? Or is Angel just not for me?
Then again, a 200-something year old guy being in love with a 16 year old girl is another thing entirely. Maybe vampires have arrested emotional development. I'm 32, and I can barely stand talking to most 16 year olds.
The brooding came with a soul. The whining came with a soul. Basically, souls lead to drama and whining.
Wait, Spike got a soul and he wasn't a whiny bitch right?
I watched all of Buffy and Angel on DVD over the course of a couple years. I did my fair share of bitching and MST3k'ing throughout the course of each and I'm not sure I would have finished if my wife hadn't threatened to watch them without me, but I'm glad I did.
But maybe I was wrong:
Edit: Okay, Episode 18 is officially the creepiest thing the series has ever done.
EDIT: The season 3 opening says this: NOW WITH AN FX BUDGET!