Wife and I played 7 Wonders: Duel over the weekend. It is solid. I'm glad that this version of the game actually makes me care about military. In the original I would never play military unless it was the only valid option available. The only real downside I can see so far is that without expansions, there isn't enough randomness to keep it fresh in the long run. Even with only three games, I can see some optimal paths emerging, regardless of the included cards and how they are laid out.
Wife and I played 7 Wonders: Duel over the weekend. It is solid. I'm glad that this version of the game actually makes me care about military. In the original I would never play military unless it was the only valid option available. The only real downside I can see so far is that without expansions, there isn't enough randomness to keep it fresh in the long run. Even with only three games, I can see some optimal paths emerging, regardless of the included cards and how they are laid out.
Oh, I have no doubt they're going to have expansions for Duel. I can already picture a "Leaders" type expansion.
Tried playing Pandante again after some time with new players, this game has pretty terribly written rules, also Wizard is just more consistent and fun.
Pandante's rules break down with the ties. Any serious hand has at least three people all claiming the highest hand. NO ONE seems to consistently implement the rules for that crap.
I was never a fan. I gave it serious attempts during our games at PAX South but even good players couldn't make it work for me. I'm glad it's finally been exposed and you guys are seeing the flaws.
This is my final gaming before 2016, thanks to a large gameday:
Mombasa (new to me) - The last big Essen game on my list to try. I like it - the planning, the indirect competition and shared incentives for points on the board - but boy do some of the mechanisms crash into the theme. Reminds me that Terra Mystica can get away with stranger ideas because it is set in a fantasy world.
Sheriff of Nottingham - Still isn't my kind of game, but I like to think I got into the proper spirit of things by going broke and still landing in the middle of the pack with an incredible pile of contraband. To be honest, I find this more enjoyable to play with strangers than with friends.
Codenames - A large game, mostly with unfamiliar people. The opposite of Sheriff of Nottingham - I’d rather play Codenames with close friends.
Xenon Profiteer (new to me) -This was a surprise. A thematic deckbuilder from the designer of VivaJava, with the unique theme of refining air until you are left with Xenon. Hits the right notes for me (I narrowly won with a good combo, which the other players could have kept it out of my hands if they wanted), although I’m concerned about interest over several plays (We saw most of the cards in the course of one play)
Grand Austria Hotel - Enjoyed it as much with 2 as I did with 4 - though the common wisdom appears to be that 4 is too many.
Pandante's rules break down with the ties. Any serious hand has at least three people all claiming the highest hand. NO ONE seems to consistently implement the rules for that crap.
THIS was exactly the case last night there were multiple gambits where 2 - 3 people were claiming high.
On the plus side, I have some really nice chips, now.
I guess we mostly the same experience . Going to use the poker chips for Wizard scoring and other betting games. (I stupidly didn't buy a carrier so I have them in ziplock bags, I should probably get a plastic or acrylic container for them).
This is my final gaming before 2016, thanks to a large gameday: Sheriff of Nottingham - Still isn't my kind of game, but I like to think I got into the proper spirit of things by going broke and still landing in the middle of the pack with an incredible pile of contraband. To be honest, I find this more enjoyable to play with strangers than with friends. Codenames - A large game, mostly with unfamiliar people. The opposite of Sheriff of Nottingham - I’d rather play Codenames with close friends.
I would have thought you would enjoy playing against people who you think you can read or know and doing double and triple lies plus prior game plays with that person may influence how a game plays out.
I didn't get to play Sheriff at PAX Aus because a few people didn't like to play games where lying / misleading is a key mechanic so I can't recall how my first few games went with this but I will try with a few new people and see how it goes.
It's the end of the year, which is traditional list-making time. These are the 20 games that were hot for me in 2015, regardless of when they came out (or when I first played them). They are roughly in order of how much I enjoyed playing them this year... most of them are either new discoveries, or new games (number of times played in 2015 in parentheses):
Android: Netrunner (155) - Still a regular weekly game, which I've consistently played for nearly three years. The fact that Anarch finally got its due with Order and Chaos made me happy, too.
Roll for the Galaxy (50) - Both the game and the first expansion came out this year, and I played both of them constantly. In fact, I just played my 50th game of Roll for the Galaxy in December.
Quartermaster General (11) - This saw a lot of play in the middle of the year, when we were regularly getting 5-6 players on Saturday game nights.
Food Chain Magnate (5) - Despite only having access to this game for a month, I have already played it five times, and I expect that number to continue to rise.
Factory Fun (15) - A game from ten years ago that I played for the first time this year, and loved.
Fresh Fish (12) - Almost all of these plays are from PAX Prime, with a few scattered plays in the past months.
Alchemists (6) - Haven't touched it since we put it down in the spring, but this got played a lot for such a lengthy game.
Abracada... what? (15) - Wonderful little Korean game, which has interesting depth outside of its surface level deductive aspect.
Tzolk'in (7) - I played Tzolk'in for the first time last year, and that continued into this year. My favorite worker placement game.
Baseball Highlights: 2045 (9) - It's difficult to get a tournament together, but my most memorable games have been in this format - I played three tournaments this year.
Too Many Cinderellas (42) - A short filler with more interest (and legs) than Love Letter. Still haven't gotten the prince to marry the cat (but he has wed the old man quite a lot).
Outpost (5) - Another old game that I finally discovered later in the year, this time all the way from 1991 (via the 2011 Stronghold reprint).
Wizard (12) - I was taught this trick taking game in January, and it became our "it" convention game, which is significant when you consistently meet the same people for convention gaming multiple times per year.
The Voyages of Marco Polo (6) - Another game from Simone Luciani and Daniele Tascini, the designers of Tzolk'in. I've been enjoying exploring it, but it took a while to wrap my head around it. (I took to Tzolk'in right away)
Terra Mystica (9) - Another game that's seen consistent play since 2014. The expansion and the drafting variant have kept my interest moving forward.
Favor of the Pharaoh (12) - The second Tom Lehmann design on the list. Favor of the Pharaoh has been popular on Saturday game nights since it came out.
Rails of New England (4) - A longer game, with a notoriously poor rulebook... it still managed four plays with the help of a local train gamer who is unfortunately no longer local.
Fast Food Franchise (5) - A 1991 game, obtained via the BGG marketplace along with some other hard to find games. Tom Lehmann's name drew me in, but this is a clever take on Monopoly that is easily strong enough to stand on its own. Some people in my game group don't care for it... which led to a misunderstanding when trying to put together a game of the similarly-named Food Chain Magnate a few weeks ago!
Seasons (7) - Mostly two player games - first on a friend's copy, and then on Anthony's copy. Always happy to play.
Flash Point (6) - The only co-op to make this list, thanks to Anthony's copy. We played this quite a lot with my former RPG group, similar to the Shadowrun card game last year.
Notably missing games... Codenames: most likely because I haven't been able to get my own copy, yet. Race for the Galaxy: despite being my favorite game, I get to play it much more often on the PC than I do in person, and I don't count those plays.
Played Deus twice over the weekend. Really really enjoyed it. It combines the tableau building and combos of Race for the Galaxy/7 Wonders with actual board placement like Terra Mystica and Civilizations.
Among other games at the traditional FRC New Year party, I played Mottainai, the new Chudyk GtR re-vamp.
This one is actually a worthy successor. I liken it to Glory to Rome, except extremely distilled and devoid of "filler" actions. A 3-player game legitimately takes 15 minutes. It has a much greater emphasis on efficiency of actions and building a streamlined single-purpose engine.
Very good. Very much worth getting and playing. It's different enough from GtR that it will not replace it, nor does it feel redundant.
I would play this where I might play 3 - 5 hands of Red7, or when I want some concentrated decision-making.
Among other games at the traditional FRC New Year party, I played Mottainai, the new Chudyk GtR re-vamp.
I have somehow avoided playing Mottainai, but I imagine I would like it. My avoidance might have something to do with turning down plays where I would be the fourth or fifth player - having put together the print and play beta version, read the rules, and played dozens of games of G2R at different player counts, I am primarily interested in playing it with 2-3.
The first gaming week of 2016, a year that immediately kicked off with a game day at ScoJo’s house:
Schnappchen Jagd (new to me) - Uwe Rosenberg’s follow-up to Bohnanza back in 1998, and my first game of 2016 - played three times with five different people. I like when a game packs a lot of interest into a short playing time, and this would make a good lunchtime game at work. It got better after we fixed a rules mistake regarding trump suits in a follow-up game...
Hansa Teutonica - If there’s one thing I’m certain of, it’s that 2 actions/turn is the easiest way to lose Hansa Teutonica.
Codenames - I will continue to justify “Zelda” as a clue as often as possible. How else am I supposed to get “wind” and “fish” at the same time? (Perhaps I should have tried “Koholint”)
Goa - A Coldguy request, and the first of two Rudiger Dorn games this week.
Fast Food Franchise - With a table of new players. Zoe started chicken in the south (same as Anthony’s usual strategy), but the dice kicked into overdrive, and I dodged every chicken joint for the last two trips around the board, cashing out $1000000 from Whole Donut and Family Style. Passing start, then drawing the event that moved me all the way to start (again!) didn’t hurt.
Rome: City of Marble (new to me) - This is a great game… abstract tile placement with a sense of place, a quality that reminds me of Tigris & Euphrates. It’s a superficial similarity, but it seems like this game is getting ignored on BGG right now - so I don’t mind invoking T&E to lend it some prestige.
Steam Time - The second Rudiger Dorn game. I’m still not sure about this one. Both times I’ve played it, I left the table disappointed, and then completely changed my mind after thinking about it for a day.
Codenames - I will continue to justify “Zelda” as a clue as often as possible. How else am I supposed to get “wind” and “fish” at the same time? (Perhaps I should have tried “Koholint”)
I know Hansa Teutonica gets a lot of love on these boards, completely deserved in my opinion. It's without a doubt in my top 5 favorite board games.
That being said, the game is almost criminally underrated and generally unknown. Granted it's been out of print for years up until recently, but even that is a symptom of just how under the radar it is.
My question is why. Why do you think Hansa isn't as popular or as acknowledged as it should be (assuming you're like me and think it should be)? Is it because the theme is pasted on and generally pretty boring? Is it because the game looks like just another Euro "cube pusher" and doesn't catch your eye? Is it because the designer doesn't really have a reputation and a string of popular games so people aren't willing to look at his back list like Feld or Rosenberg?
I'm just curious as to why Hansa isn't getting the love I think it deserves. Not only that, but what would you do to fix that? Keep the rules and mechanics as is and change the theme and board art? Make it a purely abstract game? I've been thinking a lot about this lately and I honestly don't have any good answers other than that the game just looks boring, especially as a spectator. It's not until you're actually playing the game that the magic and cut-throatedness (I think I just made up that word) takes hold of you and you fall in love with it.
Hansa doesn't sell for the same reason anything doesn't sell. It's not sexy. Look at the difference in sales between Vinci and Small World.
Even if people judged games based on mechanics, Hansa wouldn't sell well because it's complicated. It might get big press, but it wouldn't get big sales. Hard games don't sell. Pandemic, Munchkin, etc. are what you need for really big sales.
Hansa doesn't sell for the same reason anything doesn't sell. It's not sexy. Look at the difference in sales between Vinci and Small World.
Even if people judged games based on mechanics, Hansa wouldn't sell well because it's complicated. It might get big press, but it wouldn't get big sales. Hard games don't sell. Pandemic, Munchkin, etc. are what you need for really big sales.
I agree with you when talking about long term sales, but there are plenty of complicated games that get big press. Every time Stefan Feld releases a game, BGG seems to go wild. Same with Uwe Rosengerg. Terra Mystica got tons of press and that game is just as complex as Hansa Teutonica, if not more so.
And my comment wasn't just about sales. Hansa Teutonica is a game that even most "hardcore" Euro boardgamers have never heard of or have never played. People have been clamoring for a reprint of El Grande for years because it's considered a classic. There was no similar popular request for a reprint of Hansa, even though there are plenty of games that are somewhat similar to El Grande, but almost none that are similar to Hansa. For a game that's ranked 80 on BGG, you'd think the game would have a better reputation.
El Grand is popular because it was released at a time early in the US BG community's existence when there weren't many other options. It was one of the few good games available at the time, so a lot of people in the US had a memory of it. It also has a relatively unique usage of GOPS as a mechanic, that other games don't have. It also has gimmicks of the Grande and the Castillo.
Terra Mystica has a sexier theme than Hansa and was released with a big splash relatively recently.
Hansa was released with bad timing and bad availability, so was never able to make a splash and wedge itself into a spot in people's memory.
Hansa Teutonica got a third print run a few months ago. If you take "users that track their collections on BGG" as a representative sample of the board game buying public (which is probably a bad idea, but let's run with it), then Hansa Teutonica has sold a number of copies comparable to other well-regarded games. Compare to:
Hansa Teutonica got a third print run a few months ago. If you take "users that track their collections on BGG" as a representative sample of the board game buying public (which is probably a bad idea, but let's run with it), then Hansa Teutonica has sold a number of copies comparable to other well-regarded games. Compare to:
Yes, I know that it just got reprinted. That's why I posted my question. But I'm curious if anyone thinks they should have changed the theme, artwork, whatever for the third printing to try and appeal to gamers.
I think Hansa is somewhat of a relic, or perhaps anachronistic. It's got a more "classic" Euro look and feel, but it was released at a time when more modern board games were taking off. It was "old school" at a time when "new school" was getting all the focus.
I think "not sexy" has a lot to do with it. It's an extremely well-executed Euro cube-pusher that was released at the tail end of the popularity curve of such a thing.
I think Scott made a great comment about the difference in sales numbers between Vinci and Small World. I'm just wondering if you could make "Small Worldify" Hansa Teutonica to make it more appealing but keep the mechanics.
I think Scott made a great comment about the difference in sales numbers between Vinci and Small World. I'm just wondering if you could make a "Small Worldify" Hansa Teutonica to make it more appealing but keep the mechanics.
Yes, you can definitely do that. If you streamlined the rules, keep the core gameplay, and retheme with fantasy, sci-fi, or IP license you can definitely get it into Small World sales territory.
I dug around a bit to see which games (in the 60-120 minute range) were getting the most plays logged on BGG, which should give a reasonable starting point to compare to Hansa Teutonica. Near the top of the list: The Castles of Burgundy (free online implementation on Yucata.de), Five Tribes (no online implementation), and Terra Mystica (which has a huge online community at snellman.net that gathers at BGG). All of these games are getting 8-9x as much play as Hansa Teutonica does every month.
Hansa Teutonica tends to get 150-250 plays logged every month, which is comparable to Tigris & Euphrates, El Grande, Caylus, Bora Bora, and Macao.
Comments
The buy tiles low over multiple rounds and turn around and sell for profit was WAY ahead of its time.
Pick up if you enjoy word games and market speculation.
On the plus side, I have some really nice chips, now.
Mombasa (new to me) - The last big Essen game on my list to try. I like it - the planning, the indirect competition and shared incentives for points on the board - but boy do some of the mechanisms crash into the theme. Reminds me that Terra Mystica can get away with stranger ideas because it is set in a fantasy world.
Sheriff of Nottingham - Still isn't my kind of game, but I like to think I got into the proper spirit of things by going broke and still landing in the middle of the pack with an incredible pile of contraband. To be honest, I find this more enjoyable to play with strangers than with friends.
Codenames - A large game, mostly with unfamiliar people. The opposite of Sheriff of Nottingham - I’d rather play Codenames with close friends.
Xenon Profiteer (new to me) -This was a surprise. A thematic deckbuilder from the designer of VivaJava, with the unique theme of refining air until you are left with Xenon. Hits the right notes for me (I narrowly won with a good combo, which the other players could have kept it out of my hands if they wanted), although I’m concerned about interest over several plays (We saw most of the cards in the course of one play)
Grand Austria Hotel - Enjoyed it as much with 2 as I did with 4 - though the common wisdom appears to be that 4 is too many.
I didn't get to play Sheriff at PAX Aus because a few people didn't like to play games where lying / misleading is a key mechanic so I can't recall how my first few games went with this but I will try with a few new people and see how it goes.
- Android: Netrunner (155) - Still a regular weekly game, which I've consistently played for nearly three years. The fact that Anarch finally got its due with Order and Chaos made me happy, too.
- Roll for the Galaxy (50) - Both the game and the first expansion came out this year, and I played both of them constantly. In fact, I just played my 50th game of Roll for the Galaxy in December.
- Quartermaster General (11) - This saw a lot of play in the middle of the year, when we were regularly getting 5-6 players on Saturday game nights.
- Food Chain Magnate (5) - Despite only having access to this game for a month, I have already played it five times, and I expect that number to continue to rise.
- Factory Fun (15) - A game from ten years ago that I played for the first time this year, and loved.
- Fresh Fish (12) - Almost all of these plays are from PAX Prime, with a few scattered plays in the past months.
- Alchemists (6) - Haven't touched it since we put it down in the spring, but this got played a lot for such a lengthy game.
- Abracada... what? (15) - Wonderful little Korean game, which has interesting depth outside of its surface level deductive aspect.
- Tzolk'in (7) - I played Tzolk'in for the first time last year, and that continued into this year. My favorite worker placement game.
- Baseball Highlights: 2045 (9) - It's difficult to get a tournament together, but my most memorable games have been in this format - I played three tournaments this year.
- Too Many Cinderellas (42) - A short filler with more interest (and legs) than Love Letter. Still haven't gotten the prince to marry the cat (but he has wed the old man quite a lot).
- Outpost (5) - Another old game that I finally discovered later in the year, this time all the way from 1991 (via the 2011 Stronghold reprint).
- Wizard (12) - I was taught this trick taking game in January, and it became our "it" convention game, which is significant when you consistently meet the same people for convention gaming multiple times per year.
- The Voyages of Marco Polo (6) - Another game from Simone Luciani and Daniele Tascini, the designers of Tzolk'in. I've been enjoying exploring it, but it took a while to wrap my head around it. (I took to Tzolk'in right away)
- Terra Mystica (9) - Another game that's seen consistent play since 2014. The expansion and the drafting variant have kept my interest moving forward.
- Favor of the Pharaoh (12) - The second Tom Lehmann design on the list. Favor of the Pharaoh has been popular on Saturday game nights since it came out.
- Rails of New England (4) - A longer game, with a notoriously poor rulebook... it still managed four plays with the help of a local train gamer who is unfortunately no longer local.
- Fast Food Franchise (5) - A 1991 game, obtained via the BGG marketplace along with some other hard to find games. Tom Lehmann's name drew me in, but this is a clever take on Monopoly that is easily strong enough to stand on its own. Some people in my game group don't care for it... which led to a misunderstanding when trying to put together a game of the similarly-named Food Chain Magnate a few weeks ago!
- Seasons (7) - Mostly two player games - first on a friend's copy, and then on Anthony's copy. Always happy to play.
- Flash Point (6) - The only co-op to make this list, thanks to Anthony's copy. We played this quite a lot with my former RPG group, similar to the Shadowrun card game last year.
Notably missing games...Codenames: most likely because I haven't been able to get my own copy, yet.
Race for the Galaxy: despite being my favorite game, I get to play it much more often on the PC than I do in person, and I don't count those plays.
I play a lot of games.
Highly recommended.
This one is actually a worthy successor. I liken it to Glory to Rome, except extremely distilled and devoid of "filler" actions. A 3-player game legitimately takes 15 minutes. It has a much greater emphasis on efficiency of actions and building a streamlined single-purpose engine.
Very good. Very much worth getting and playing. It's different enough from GtR that it will not replace it, nor does it feel redundant.
I would play this where I might play 3 - 5 hands of Red7, or when I want some concentrated decision-making.
The first gaming week of 2016, a year that immediately kicked off with a game day at ScoJo’s house:
Schnappchen Jagd (new to me) - Uwe Rosenberg’s follow-up to Bohnanza back in 1998, and my first game of 2016 - played three times with five different people. I like when a game packs a lot of interest into a short playing time, and this would make a good lunchtime game at work. It got better after we fixed a rules mistake regarding trump suits in a follow-up game...
Hansa Teutonica - If there’s one thing I’m certain of, it’s that 2 actions/turn is the easiest way to lose Hansa Teutonica.
Codenames - I will continue to justify “Zelda” as a clue as often as possible. How else am I supposed to get “wind” and “fish” at the same time? (Perhaps I should have tried “Koholint”)
Goa - A Coldguy request, and the first of two Rudiger Dorn games this week.
Fast Food Franchise - With a table of new players. Zoe started chicken in the south (same as Anthony’s usual strategy), but the dice kicked into overdrive, and I dodged every chicken joint for the last two trips around the board, cashing out $1000000 from Whole Donut and Family Style. Passing start, then drawing the event that moved me all the way to start (again!) didn’t hurt.
Rome: City of Marble (new to me) - This is a great game… abstract tile placement with a sense of place, a quality that reminds me of Tigris & Euphrates. It’s a superficial similarity, but it seems like this game is getting ignored on BGG right now - so I don’t mind invoking T&E to lend it some prestige.
Steam Time - The second Rudiger Dorn game. I’m still not sure about this one. Both times I’ve played it, I left the table disappointed, and then completely changed my mind after thinking about it for a day.
That being said, the game is almost criminally underrated and generally unknown. Granted it's been out of print for years up until recently, but even that is a symptom of just how under the radar it is.
My question is why. Why do you think Hansa isn't as popular or as acknowledged as it should be (assuming you're like me and think it should be)? Is it because the theme is pasted on and generally pretty boring? Is it because the game looks like just another Euro "cube pusher" and doesn't catch your eye? Is it because the designer doesn't really have a reputation and a string of popular games so people aren't willing to look at his back list like Feld or Rosenberg?
I'm just curious as to why Hansa isn't getting the love I think it deserves. Not only that, but what would you do to fix that? Keep the rules and mechanics as is and change the theme and board art? Make it a purely abstract game? I've been thinking a lot about this lately and I honestly don't have any good answers other than that the game just looks boring, especially as a spectator. It's not until you're actually playing the game that the magic and cut-throatedness (I think I just made up that word) takes hold of you and you fall in love with it.
Thoughts?
Even if people judged games based on mechanics, Hansa wouldn't sell well because it's complicated. It might get big press, but it wouldn't get big sales. Hard games don't sell. Pandemic, Munchkin, etc. are what you need for really big sales.
And my comment wasn't just about sales. Hansa Teutonica is a game that even most "hardcore" Euro boardgamers have never heard of or have never played. People have been clamoring for a reprint of El Grande for years because it's considered a classic. There was no similar popular request for a reprint of Hansa, even though there are plenty of games that are somewhat similar to El Grande, but almost none that are similar to Hansa. For a game that's ranked 80 on BGG, you'd think the game would have a better reputation.
Terra Mystica has a sexier theme than Hansa and was released with a big splash relatively recently.
Hansa was released with bad timing and bad availability, so was never able to make a splash and wedge itself into a spot in people's memory.
(2004) Goa, 8839 owned
(2009) Hansa Teutonica, 7013 owned
(2009) Macao, 5262 owned
(2011) Trajan, 7396 owned
None of these are going to touch the games that built the foundation of BGG:
(1995) Settlers of Catan, 55766 owned
(2000) Carcassonne, 54848 owned
(2002) Puerto Rico, 41228 owned
Or the newer blockbuster games:
(2008) Pandemic, 46752 owned
(2008) Dominon, 46231 owned
(2010) 7 Wonders, 39256 owned
I think "not sexy" has a lot to do with it. It's an extremely well-executed Euro cube-pusher that was released at the tail end of the popularity curve of such a thing.
Hansa Teutonica tends to get 150-250 plays logged every month, which is comparable to Tigris & Euphrates, El Grande, Caylus, Bora Bora, and Macao.