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My bladesmithing projects
I just noticed I don't have any of my great grandpa's forge on my flickr, I'm a 4th-6th gen (depending on which part of the family you trace, I have multiple lines of this stuff) metal worker. Forging stuff is apparently in my blood.
I have some other stuff I've done up there, still looking to sell that dagger, but it won't be around long. If anyone is interested in either hearing about making knives and metal working/metallurgy or is interested in having me make something let me know. This is really my passion.
I have some other stuff I've done up there, still looking to sell that dagger, but it won't be around long. If anyone is interested in either hearing about making knives and metal working/metallurgy or is interested in having me make something let me know. This is really my passion.
Comments
As for me, I've been around knives all my life (German and Slavic family, lots of old country child rearing methods) and am totally fascinated by them. I actually don't remember a point in my life when I didn't own a knife. So for the past couple years I started to look into making them and kind of went on a holy quest to learn how to forge knives. So after a relatively short period of time I got pretty good at doing what I do, I'm going to say that I'm good at this kind of stuff because it's in my blood. More likely though it's because of the dedication I have to learning and actually doing this stuff.
If you want to know what makes a good knife I can tell you all about it. Just tell me what the knife is for and I can tell you what design is best for it, what kind of steel is suited to the work, and which temper works best. I can tell you all about sharpening and how to make things into a razor blade, or how to make a strong edge that will last a long time. Also I can tell you the process of forging too. The pics on my flickr can help to show what I'm talking about.
Edit: I use coal forges exclusively now. I don't believe there are arc/plasma forges, although there are gas forges which use a mix of LPG (liquid petroleum gas or something along those lines, some kind of flammable gas) although they are quite expensive to buy. Eventually I may make one, but the coal forge is what I'm sticking with for the moment, it's a decent size, it won't explode, and it works very efficiently. The gas one will be more for forge welding/ sword tempering when I work up to that. I need to make some money back before I go there though.
Say I wanted to learn some basic forging. What's the best way to get started? I was way into firing my own crucible steel a while back, but I don't have the space for a forge. That might soon change; I have some family members who might be willing to let me build a small furnace on their property.
I love how corny that movie is. It created a whole group of people who talk shit non stop about katanas, yet who know nothing whatsoever about them. The folded steel bit is kind of a misnomer as it has nothing to do with the edge, it's just to brace the sides of the sword so the thing doesn't snap off in battle due to it's extreme brittleness.
Although the actor is a total badass, especially when he throws that knife behind him to the magnet. I love that part.
I forgot to mention about swords, I'm actually proficient in a couple styles of swordsmanship. I'm strongest with a russian sabre, but I know the fundamentals of using a katana and a german longsword, although my actual experience against a live opponent with them is limited. I get to pull out the training shashka and hit people with it fairly often with my systema training. The Cossacks could split a man to the saddle with one blow, and the sword is only a few lbs, that's pretty impressive if you ask me. Also superior for parrying/deflecting and going into a brutal counter attack. When in doubt move then go for the largest unprotected blood vessel right?
Let me throw a question out there, whoever gets it gets some kudos. How did the Japanese smiths get their ferrous alloys, that's iron and steel when you remove the jargon?
The only reason I would use a gas forge is to make pattern welded blades, or to work on a very large piece, specifically for quenching and tempering. The gas forge also has the advantage of eliminating most of the O2 in the burn space, meaning those metals that tend to oxidize can be worked more easily. Also the gas doesn't form clinkers which are a major irritation.
EDIT: Are there any regulations that you need to conform to when selling blades? Register with this agency, pay this sort of fee, etc?
here are the laws though, those ones are specific to some place, but they are the general standard from what I can tell. You don't need a special permit, but depending on where you are it's illegal to sell certain blade lengths to people under the age of 18. Knife laws are generally dumb, but what can you do?
That's cool! Sounds like you've got a nice cottage industry to explore.
I do know how to make that style of knife, but I'm really not that into making them because they are crazy time consuming. you have to hand sand and polish the blade for hours to get it to look right. It takes daaaaayyysss and if you mess up and miss something you'll be back a few hours. If you'd ever done it you could understand why I'm not a huge fan of them.
I'm currently making things in more of the knife range, so a blade length of under 1 foot. I have to forge out and clean up the tang too, so the whole thing is actually larger, and the forge I'm working with right now just isn't big enough and I need to sell more knives before I start spending too much more money to make one.
If I do ever make one I'll let you know though. I'm kinda thinking about making a khopesh or khukri style knife. Or maybe an ax, axes are awesome tools
I could make a badass tanto style knife though. Rather than folding steel and iron for a few days I'd just use 1075 or so steel which is pretty much exactly the same thing, just with modern technology making the metal better really. There are some pretty good looking knives you can make in that style, and anything I forge holds a razor edge, and if you take care of it (don't go trying to cut through granite or other stupid things) it'll hold for a long time too.
If you have stuff I want and are willing to trade it to me I have no issues with that though.
The beauty of barter is that there aren't limits other than what is actually useful. I like to keep things plain and useful, so some stuff obviously isn't going to be useful to me, but this kind of trading is a good way to recycle what otherwise would end up in a landfill. Also things that are broken but made out of good steel are always welcome. Files, car leaf springs, stuff that's solid and in a somewhat decent shape.
Hmm, maybe we should get a barter topic on here. Need x, have y and Z to offer. Redistribution of goods is very lacking in our society with the throw it away and buy one from a wal-mart attitude.
First I'll tell you about how katanas are actually made, the various styles etc. Something only vaguely understood by most people. The lowest quality is called kataha, which is where a bar of steel is welded to a bar of iron, making a billet with one hard side and one soft side. These were used to make kitchen knives and tools like that.
Next up in quality is the suyeha, which is where the steel is welded along the edge of a piece of iron. These were really haphazard and pretty shitty.
The wariha method is where the edge of the iron bar is split open and the steel inserted into the edge and welded in. Marginally less shitty than the suyeha method.
The kobushi method involved forming the steel into a V cross section and inserting a soft piece of iron into the back of it, then welding it shut.
The uchimaki or awase ni mai method involves folding the kataha bar steel side inward and welding together. The steel would stick out and be forged into the cutting edge.
The moroha blades were made wrapping a iron jacket around a steel core from end to end, not around the edges.
Now all of those methods were looked down upon by the Japanese smiths however. They were seen as second rate at best, but if done right could yield a decent blade.
Now the method that they saw as making a decent blade without lamination was ori awasi san mai. This was accomplished by making a suyeha bar and sandwiching it between two layers of iron and welding them all together.
Now that you know some of the basic stuff, there is the method everyone talks about and nobody seems to understand. It is called shihozume and represents the height of Japanese swordmaking tradition. It was accomplished by making a suyeha bar, then making two laminated bars, where all the 'folds' are hiding. Then these would be assembled in the same way as the ori awasi san mai method, only instead of sandwiching the suyeha bar with iron, they used the steel laminations.
So effectively you have a core made up of iron on one side, and steel on the other (the steel side became the blade, the iron became the spine. The two sides, where no cutting took place I want to point out for all of the crazy people, acted like springs to stop the whole thing from snapping apart.
Now I'll tell you a little about how they got their ferrous alloys. They would pan it out of rivers like prospectors would do for gold during the gold rush days in the U.S. Then that iron would be smelted into a bar in a kind of oven that melted it and allowed it to collect at the bottom. The head smith who had years of practice would be required just to tell what parts weren't total garbage. The overall quality was ok, but nothing amazing in my opinion. There is a reason that Japan has bought all of Germany's steel refineries today. Germans just produce better quality steel. They have for a long time too.
Anyway, now we get to the viking sword techniques. There are only two, I'll refer to them as the common and the composite. The common was the standard that mostly nobles used, the composite was basically too expensive for anyone but kings or crazy rich people. Like worth a small fortune, excalibur type stuff here.
The common was made like this. First damascus (laminated iron and steel) bars were made, varying from 7 to 64 layers. Then they were twisted, which formed something like a cable, only fully welded together. Then anywhere from 2 to 4 or more where we welded together to form the core of the sword. Then a piece of steel was welded around the entire edge of this core (the core was amazing at absorbing shock, it was after all like having four or five high tension cables at the centre) and the whole thing was forged into a blade.
The other method was similar, only it had more twisted layers for the core, then after the core was welded, it was split in half from end to end, creating two mirrored side plates. These were then welded to an iron core for even more shock absorption and toughness, then the steel edge was welded around the edge of that core.
Because of the core itself being comprised of incredibly durable twisted damascus steel, sometimes with an iron center the overall toughness of the blade was multiplied hundred fold. A katana is a fairly brittle sword and can't deal with much pressure against it's flats or else it is prone to snapping, while these swords were insanely durable. Also they had access to better quality ore, and more of it allowing for more durable blades overall. The best example being the Sutton Hoo find in Suffolk, England and is believed to be from around 670 A.D. Anyways they found a sword there that would have cost a huge fortune to make, and is comprised of at least 9 pieces of twisted steel.