Street Art / Graffiti / Banksy

Matt

So I was reading about some new Banksy pieces that popped up across NYC yesterday morning, and how they were then found defaced this morning: http://gothamist.com/2010/05/18/banksy_gets_dissed.php


Here are my thoughts on this. I think that street art, when well done, is really cool. Downright beautiful, even. On the other side of the coin though, it's still graffiti, a form of vandalism. To a certain extent, I can appreciate the guerrilla marketing attitude towards making yourself known, but once you've reached a level of fame for your art, shouldn't it be time to grow up and stop vandalizing people's property? I'm sure if you're that famous for your graffiti, there are plenty of artsy folks who would commission you to spray some art on the side of their building, business, etc.

I feel that especially in the case of Banksy and his internet fame, it is just another case of fame spreading due people pushing something in an effort to seem cool. I'm not saying everyone who enjoys his work is dumb, in fact I admit the guy is an incredible artist. I just can't get behind the whole methods aspect of it. Am I just a crotchety old man now for thinking this way?

I think another aspect of what irks me about it, is that the whole street art movement is founded on the "underground" culture, yet when something gets so big and popular as Banksy is on the internet, I have a real hard time believing something like that has remained genuine unless I've witnessed it from the ground up myself. When I see someone link to a Banksy article it gives me the same feeling as when I see a guy in an Ed Hardy t-shirt, and that I just can't get behind.

Omnutia

The biggest shame here is that those additions weren't even very good. Kinda the "First post" of the real world.

Matt

The biggest shame here is that those additions weren't even very good. Kinda the "First post" of the real world.

Yeah, regardless on my feelings as to whether he should have been painting the side of someone's building in the first place, it's undeniable that the additions look like ass.

Scrolling through the comments on that link, it looks like the stencil jobs are the work of fans of a local NYC street artist who is currently locked up. Therefore his angry fans go around stenciling over other people's stuff. That's pretty much all I could get out of it, but then again I know little to nothing about the community that surrounds this stuff.

GreatTeacherMacRoss

I'm actually doing a graffiti lesson in my class. I agree, however, in the gray area that graffiti exists in. Heck, some people might even be honored to have their building hit by Bansky. While technically vandalism, artists like Keith Haring also got their start vandalizing city property. I have mixed feeling about graffiti myself, while some are really quality artists, others are simply taggers who are simply vandalizing property for personal gratification as opposed to making something interesting and creative.

Churba

To a certain extent, I can appreciate the guerrilla marketing attitude towards making yourself known, but once you've reached a level of fame for your art, shouldn't it be time to grow up and stop vandalizing people's property?

I won't say I know him personally, but It certainly appears he just doesn't give a shit about fame. He has a job, just like any of us, lives down in the midlands with his missus, and does his art for art's sake. He's old school. I mean, the fame and money, he likes it as much as anyone else, but that's not why he does it, or why he keeps doing it. He didn't even give that much of a shit about getting "Dissed" - He already did his bit and moved on. If some dime a dozen toy sprays over his stuff to try and get a little notoriety, good for 'em. They'll vanish off the radar in three weeks, and he won't. That's the way the game is.

Sail

I often get the feeling that guerilla art is popular culture that pretends to be counter-culture.

Admiral Hotcakes

I don't mind graffiti as long as it's not tasteless or just someone's handle in five-foot-high, incomprehensible letters. Some of it's fantastic, but I agree with Sail that it's becoming more pop-culture. Maybe I'm symptomatic of this.

Sticker graffiti is one of my favorite styles, but again, it has to be interesting. I once saw Hello Kitty as C-3P0 in Chicago; stuff like that is fine by me.

MrRoboto

He's gotten worse disses before, he doesn't care, people love him, hate him, whatever. Some places in the UK have actually restored some of his vandalized pieces, so that says a lot about him. I've done some stuff in the past, now it's just a sticker here or there. I've always liked posters and stickers best. Wooster Collective if you want to see some of the more elaborate and cooler stuff out there.

Luke Burrage

You know what I hate? All vandalism. If the result is some kind of image, it doesn't mean that someone doesn't have to clean it up or pay for it. I hate to call it art of any kind, because that in some way imbues it with a quality that it doesn't deserve. Some people go on about the democratization of art. I see it as the monopolization of the visible public spaces by a law breaking minority.

Sure, some 0.000000001% of visual vandalism looks good. I own a book of Banksy's works, and it's highly amusing and thought provoking. I would, however, be happy to give up on all of Banksy's body of work, and all other interesting visual vandalism, if it meant I never had to have the 99.99999999% of visual vandalism forced into my face every time I walk down the street. Banksy is good, sure, but he legitimizes (in the eyes of some) that 99.99999999%. He's like the soup kitchen provided by catholic nuns to the sodomy of Irish orphans be catholic priests.

No, scratch that. It isn't just about seeing all this vandalism while walking down the street. It's having it on my front door. And not just on my front door. Here's a photo I took this afternoon:



That's my FUCKING BACK YARD! Only me and the guy next door have access to this yard, and we use it during the summer to sit outside and relax, have barbecues, entertain guests. Everyone else in the apartment building looks out into the yard too, so we try to keep it relatively tidy and pleasant to look at.

And some fucker climbed over two walls and scrawled that crap all over the place. Who did he think that vandalism was for? Did he think the people in my apartment building wanted to see it out their window every morning? Like fuck we do. Was it to make us think? Was it to make a political point? Was it to democratize art? Was it to make my back yard more culturally vibrant? Of course not! Nobody is going to ever see it!

Then, as you can see, my landlord decided to paint over it. Sure, the white paint looks a bit shit against the unpainted wall, but it was far better than the vandalism that took place. Then what? Some other fucker decided to do the same thing again! The second vandal could obviously see that the work of the first vandal had been somewhat unappreciated, due to the fact it had been painted over. Why could that person have thought "Actually, my vandalism isn't going to go down very well around here. Maybe, I dunno, I shouldn't spray paint all over this wall?"

If someone can come up with a single justification for the acts of this trespasser, I'd love to hear it. Until I'm convinced, I'd really appreciate it if everyone would do everything they can to stop all vandalism, no matter that it results in some kind of visual adornment.

Matt

Someone needs to find the clip from The Naked Gun where they have the anti-graffiti wall. My searches have failed me!

MrRoboto

Well Luke, the usual response to that is that a lot of the ones that put up posters, stickers or stencils are people claiming back their visual space from the "Corporations" why is it fair for a company to place huge ads (a lot of times without permits) and the tax payer has no say on it, so why protest Sheppard or Banksy or Above, etc. when they do it, and not the companies? If they paint over your private wall, yes, they are assholes, no one can deny that.

Luke Burrage

Well Luke, the usual response to that is that a lot of the ones that put up posters, stickers or stencils are people claiming back their visual space from the "Corporations" why is it fair for a company to place huge ads (a lot of times without permits) and the tax payer has no say on it, so why protest Sheppard or Banksy or Above, etc. when they do it, and not the companies? If they paint over your private wall, yes, they are assholes, no one can deny that.

Oh, don't worry, I'm not being hypocritical here. I hate billboards too.

You know what situation would make me happy? If those who want to do graffiti art only spray painted billboards. That way they can actually do what you say they say they are doing; reclaiming the visual space. Not claiming new visual space, but reclaiming the visual space taken by the companies. I don't mind reclaiming, I do mind claiming. Especially claiming in my own back yard.

The irony is that I have art hanging on my wall that is made from layered and ripped posters...


On a related note, I presume you all know that all posters and visual advertising was banned in Sao Paulo, Brazil? I've not seen any recent photos, but .

Sail

The next time you think about defacing public property, think about this.

Matt

I do laugh my ass off at vandalized billboards, usually. My favorite would be a "Kars for Kids" (shudder) one that was filled mostly with a little girl gleefully squishing her cheeks with her palms. Someone had climbed the billboard and done a perfect handlebar mustache and goattee on the girl. It's so cliche, but it was so well done that it reminded you why drawing facial hair on people was funny in the first place.

WindUpBird

I do laugh my ass off at vandalized billboards, usually. My favorite would be a "Kars for Kids" (shudder) one that was filled mostly with a little girl gleefully squishing her cheeks with her palms. Someone had climbed the billboard and done a perfect handlebar mustache and goattee on the girl. It's so cliche, but it was so well done that it reminded you why drawing facial hair on people was funny in the first place.

There was an awesome one near my house, wherein a giant scantily clad woman sprawled out as an advert for a gentleman's club grew a giant handlebar mustache overnight. The gentleman's club hastily airbrushed her back to her former, dubious beauty, at which point another mustache was added. This cycle is still ongoing.

foofly

No, scratch that. It isn't just about seeing all this vandalism while walking down the street. It's having it on my front door. And not just on my front door. Here's a photo I took this afternoon:



That's my FUCKING BACK YARD! Only me and the guy next door have access to this yard, and we use it during the summer to sit outside and relax, have barbecues, entertain guests. Everyone else in the apartment building looks out into the yard too, so we try to keep it relatively tidy and pleasant to look at.

I guess it depends on taste. I, for one think think that graff is quite nice. Much better than a wall of tags or something.

Luke Burrage

So here's what you do: invite someone into your back yard to spray paint meanless symbols and images on YOUR wall. Meanwhile, on MY wall, I'd like nothing that I didn't ask for.

Apreche

So here's what you do: invite someone into your back yard to spray paint meanless symbols and images on YOUR wall. Meanwhile, on MY wall, I'd like nothing that I didn't ask for.

Why don't you just paint your own wall with something you want?

Luke Burrage

Look, I'm not specifically moaning about my back yard. What I'm doing is showing how annoying and unwanted this vandalism is in general. This is my own personal experience, and now multiply that by every single buliding in Berlin.

Did you know that the large Jewish Holocaust memorial is sometimes vandalized? They spent millions treating every surface with anti-spraypaint chemicals. It's not a small problem when they've got to protect such memorials.

Sova

I can tell you why I think that that act was justified, Luke, and it stems from a deep hate for this stuff (unauthorized graffiti). By vandalizing you property he has made my dream of bringing back the public flogging for this behavior a little closer. Followed by being forced to clean it up. To the victim's satisfaction.

I constantly see this crap all over Winnipeg and I really hate it, the only place that doesn't seem to be covered by gang territory markers is the U of Manitoba campus and places that have heavy brutal security. I'm an advocate for more of said security personally. I can't stand people doing this, it has personally affected me numerous times and always caused nothing but headaches and anger. Some kind of anti graffiti agency may create jobs now that I think about it. Enforcers and cleaners. Heheheh, maybe a future entrepreneurial idea.

I like more high tech stuff anyways. They should make an iphone app that lets you view a form of alternate reality with gps tags and digital art, so that you can see spots tagged with digital graffiti. Or stuff with glowies, I like glowies and they come off easy. But the alternate reality is the real way to go imo.

Luke Burrage

What I'd like to see is an eye-for-an-eye punishment for this kind of vandalism. If someone is caught spraying or tagging anything without permission, the agency will then send someone to the vandal's home. They'll go into the bedroom of the vandal and spray paint everything. Not just the walls, but everything the person owns. Their bed sheets, their posters, the photos, their laptop screen, everything.

Fuckers.

Sova

Hmm, I think that that's a good way to get the message across, although I prefer to force the aggressor to be forced to fix any damage they create too. Probably just personal taste though. A job for the enforcers perhaps.

Luke Burrage

No, I agree. Get them to return the property to the state is was before it was damaged too.

To be honest, I really wouldn't mind graffiti if it wasn't such a hassle to clean up, and if the artists had even the tiniest bit of respect. For example, there is some great street pavement art, and that is done with chalk. It's art for art's sake, but non-permanent. The next time it rains, it's gone. If someone tagged my wall with chalk, or with an easily removeable sticker, it would be fine, and I'd even smile. I mean, they'd still have trespassed, but it wouldn't mean having to paint over an otherwise unpainted wall.

Apreche

We should invent a spraypaint that washes off easily. Then what we can do is lessen the sentence for vandalism if you use that special paint. Do you think they would all switch?

Koholint

No. No one expects to get caught.

GreatTeacherMacRoss

We should invent a spraypaint that washes off easily. Then what we can do is lessen the sentence for vandalism if you use that special paint. Do you think they would all switch?

From my experience dealing with youth who do graffiti and vandalism, there are some who steal the spray paint and use it to place their tags where they want. They typically want to put it where they can show it to others, or if they are practicing they'll just use any surface that's large and flat. Luke's post looks like someone new or practicing, or someone who isn't very talented.

I also don't think that easy-off spray paint would be a big hit with most of the taggers who WANT their work to be up for a long time. There are even websites on which graffiti artists take digital photos and upload their work, sort of like a very specific deviantArt type site, and note the locations of their tags. For the kids who steal the paint to go tagging and vandalizing, they won't care one way or the other at best, and at worst avoid the paint since they know it won't last.

Also, the reason they use spray paint is because it's fast. Most taggers don't want to hang around for very long for fear of altercations with either angry residents or police. Some of the really impressive murals are actually commissioned work. Chalk is way slower for large pieces, and stickers cost money to print.

It's usually pretty clear if the artist is actually perusing the craft as an art, or if they're just some punk dicking around and being a vandal.

Incidentally, Luke, you could always grab a sharpie and write right on top of the graffiti that says something like "You've got the graffiti skills of a five year old. Do something more awesome next time, n00b." and hope that he comes back with something impressive.

Rym

and hope that he comes back with something impressive.

While your security camera is rolling. ^_~

Luke Burrage

Actually, this year a building has appeared in the gap through which any trespasser would come to reach my back yard. Unless the parachute in, I think that will be the last vandalism in my yard. I might see if I can find someone to invite in to make that section of the wall more interesting, artistic and tasteful.

GreatTeacherMacRoss

I might see if I can find someone to invite into do make that section of the wall more interesting, artistic and tasteful.

I can do it! How would you feel about a triumphant, veiny motherfucker of a wang all the way down the wall? That'd be fucking hardcore.

Rym

I do agree with Luke in terms of graffiti. The fact that you've defaced someone else's property makes it, in my opinion, universally intolerable. Nevermind studies showing that removal of graffiti and other cosmetic improvements seems to actually decrease crime in neighborhoods in a causal relationship.

Awesome graffiti and loser tagger graffiti should be handled identically (crackdowns, arrests, fines, removal, etc...), with one and only one exception.

Were I a judge, I would hand a $500 fine and 40 hours community service to the perpetrator of the following:


Were I a judge, I would hand a $500 fine and 40 hours community service to the perpetrator of the following:

... but I would smile while handing out the sentence and pat the guy on the back.

Awesome pranks and clever graffiti are great things, but they still cause harm. We should punish enough to discourage all but the cleverest and most awesome, and still punish those to ensure fairness. I will happily laugh at the Slayer billboard, but the person who did it deserves the same fine as any other vandal.

Apreche

You should spraypaint a Muhammad back there.