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Cops and Privacy

PeguPegu
edited June 2010 in Everything Else
Discuss!
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  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    You start.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    edited June 2010
    It's absolutely fucking revolting. It's the government saying to its citizens, "We do not give a fuck about you, the people who pay our wages, nor about accountability for our servants." I am disgusted and not surprised that my home state and the home of the Chicago Police Department would have such laws on the books, and this is just further fuel to the fire that is going to drive me to New York or LA.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • TechparadoxTechparadox
    "To Protect And Serve" became "To Harass And Annoy" a long time ago. This is just yet another extension of that. Everything is hunky-dory until someone catches a cop doing something wrong, and then the shit hits the fan (and usually gets sprayed all over the person who captured the footage, not the cop who was doing something he shouldn't have). Who watches the watchmen, eh? I guess when having a camera becomes a crime, only criminals will have cameras.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    edited June 2010
    However, the fun thing is that CCDs are getting smaller and cheaper constantly. In ten years, you'll be able to fit a camera seamlessly into your glasses, and the lenses might even act as a display. Eventually, any cop who decides to shine his jackboots with plasma and heme is going to find his face on every rights-conscious blog in the land. These laws are a symptom of neoluddites fearing change and responsibility being forced to come to terms with the fact that the twin juggernauts of rights and progress are going to grind them and their sadistic pastimes into the ground.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • JasonJason
    ... will be effectively repealed if the Supreme Court becomes involved.
  • SailSail
    Don't citizens have a right to observe and record police activity?
  • GeoGeo
    edited June 2010
    Don't citizens have a right to observe and record police activity?
    It's the quickest way to get tased and arrested. I thought the LAPD were the kings of such behavior?
    Post edited by Geo on
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    Don't citizens have a right to observe and record police activity?
    It's the quickest way to get tased and arrested. I thought the LA Police were the kings of such behavior?
    LA might beat the shit out of people, but Chicago arrests and then fucking tortures them.
  • GeoGeo
    Don't citizens have a right to observe and record police activity?
    It's the quickest way to get tased and arrested. I thought the LA Police were the kings of such behavior?
    LA might beat the shit out of people, but Chicago arrests and then fuckingtorturesthem.
    What the hell? Why...?
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    Because of this abomination.
  • FunfetusFunfetus
    I thought the LAPD were the kings of such behavior?
    There was some interesting stuff about the LAPD in a Malcolm Gladwell article that I read recently. Basically, it said that there was a very small group of really bad cops in the LAPD, and the rest were pretty average:
    The Christopher Commission's report repeatedly comes back to what it describes as the extreme concentration of problematic officers. One officer had been the subject of thirteen allegations of excessive use of force, five other complaints, twenty-eight "use of force reports" (that is, documented, internal accounts of inappropriate behavior), and one shooting. Another had six excessive-force complaints, nineteen other complaints, ten use-of-force reports, and three shootings. A third had twenty-seven use-of-force reports, and a fourth had thirty-five. Another had a file full of complaints for doing things like "striking an arrestee on the back of the neck with the butt of a shotgun for no apparent reason while the arrestee was kneeling and handcuffed," beating up a thirteen-year-old juvenile, and throwing an arrestee from his chair and kicking him in the back and side of the head while he was handcuffed and lying on his stomach.
    The report gives the strong impression that if you fired those forty-four cops the L.A.P.D. would suddenly become a pretty well-functioning police department.
  • RymRym
    This has been a trend for a while now. It disgusts me. In fact, I firmly believe that all police officers should be equipped with audio and video recording systems at all times while on duty, with serious, dire consequences for any "malfunctions" or missing footage that conveniently crops up. The systems should fail loudly, and officers not engaged in active pursuit or an emergent situation should be obligated to go off-duty and get their cameras repaired.

    I always carry my flip camera with me. You can bet that if I ever see police (or anyone) engaged in bad behavior like this, Youtube will know about it. ^_~
  • NuriNuri
    edited June 2010
    Given the justification for the law (the mutual consent of the people being recorded), I would like to see these states also ban all recordings of anything in which every single person has not consented. News cameras, for one, are notorious for flinging about their non-consensual filming. YouTube submissions should require waivers to be submitted for each person shown in the video, just like DeviantArt's model release form. Otherwise, how will they determine which videos are legal? For that matter, any paparazzi in those states should be arrested and incarcerated, because they are obviously serial offenders with no sense of morality.

    ETA: On a completely different note, isn't it a skewed sample if people only record the bad behavior of the police? Perhaps this is the problem that they are worried about. Just like FOX News and liberals, if you only show the cops doing bad things then people will form an image that cops are bad all the time. This is patently false. We should make a point of filming cops doing awesome things as well as their bad behavior. (Let's see them get pissed off about a YouTube video of a cop rescuing a 3-yr-old girl and her dog from a hijacker.)
    Post edited by Nuri on
  • AprecheApreche
    We should make a point of filming cops doing awesome things as well as their bad behavior.
    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936453

    It's covered.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark

    ETA: On a completely different note, isn't it a skewed sample if people only record the bad behavior of the police? Perhaps this is the problem that they are worried about. Just like FOX News and liberals, if you only show the cops doing bad things then people will form an image that cops are bad all the time. This is patently false. We should make a point of filming cops doing awesome things as well as their bad behavior. (Let's see them get pissed off about a YouTube video of a cop rescuing a 3-yr-old girl and her dog from a hijacker.)
    That's why we should record them all the time.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Next time I see a cop being awesome, I'll try to remember to film it. I smell a facebook group.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    I might point out that several of these people that like filming cops instigate the outbursts and arrests, some are basically harassing the officers for days but only decide to show the 5 min clip when they finally break, so they can go out in public ripping their clothes and hitting their chests in outrage and indignation at a fellow human being for being just that, a human being. So it's thanks to these people that I don't immediately side with the person being roughed up.
  • RymRym
    So it's thanks to these people that I don't immediately side with the person being roughed up.
    Nothing ever warrants violence but violence. If they're truly being disruptive, they could be arrested, but there is no excuse for an officer losing his cool, attacking, or demanding the film.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Demanding the film is always an admission of guilt.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    So it's thanks to these people that I don't immediately side with the person being roughed up.
    Nothing ever warrants violence but violence. If they're truly being disruptive, they could be arrested, but there is no excuse for an officer losing his cool, attacking, or demanding the film.
    Oh, but there is a lot of types of violence, like verbal abuse. It's already a stressful and dangerous job.

    As Chris Rock once said "If the police have to run after you, they are bringing an ass whooping with them". There is of course actual abuse from the police and yes, video is a great tool for weeding out the bad cops from the ones that just had a bad day. But for that same reason the filming should be done by an impartial 3rd, like a server or a computer, open to anyone that wishes to access the information.
  • RymRym
    Oh, but there is a lot of types of violence, like verbal abuse. It's already a stressful and dangerous job.
    It's still no excuse.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    It's still no excuse.
    Ah, the intellectual perfect world where words should never lead to violence. :P
  • AaronCAaronC
    There are some jurisdictions that have made it specifically legal to film on duty police officers. There are some police departments now experimenting with wearable cameras so that they can film an officer's eye view of everything they interact with (so they can refute lawsuits and claims of excessive force).

    Making filming the cops a crime is reprehensible, its as bad as eroding our Miranda rights. Remember, it may be a crime to lie to the police and give false information, its never a crime to refuse to co-operate or talk to them.

    The people who harass officers and provoke negative reactions should get a taste of their own medicine, why do you think riot squads now have their own photographers to document their actions.

    On a side note, why haven't the officers in those states been arrested for filming their suspect interactions, since I'm sure people didn't give consent?
  • RymRym
    Ah, the intellectual perfect world where words should never lead to violence. :P
    Of course, and we can't have that yet. But we can still hold people accountable for their actions. If a police officer reacts with violence in an inappropriate way, said police office should be disciplined or moved to a different role where their anger issues are less of a danger to the general public.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    Ah, the intellectual perfect world where words should never lead to violence. :P
    Of course, and we can't have that yet. But we can still hold people accountable for their actions. If a police officer reacts with violence in an inappropriate way, said police office should be disciplined or moved to a different role where their anger issues are less of a danger to the general public.
    Yes, thats the ticket, thin out an already underpowered agency so that the good cops get even more stress and clashes by people for not "being there" while NO ONE wants to be a cop but complain none the less, so they may also break and be moved to another department, because we all know people need less cops on the streets and more on a desk.
  • AndrewAndrew
    Ah, the intellectual perfect world where words should never lead to violence. :P
    Of course, and we can't have that yet. But we can still hold people accountable for their actions. If a police officer reacts with violence in an inappropriate way, said police office should be disciplined or moved to a different role where their anger issues are less of a danger to the general public.
    Yes, thats the ticket, thin out an already underpowered agency so that the good cops get even more stress and clashes by people for not "being there" while NO ONE wants to be a cop but complain none the less, so they may also break and be moved to another department, because we all know people need less cops on the streets and more on a desk.
    The concept you are missing is that Police officers hold a significantly larger amount of legal and physical power over citizens that they need to be held to a higher standard than everyone else.
  • AprecheApreche
    The concept you are missing is that Police officers hold a significantly larger amount of legal and physical power over citizens that they need to be held to a higher standard than everyone else.
    They should also be paid much more. Maybe then smarter people would want to be police officers instead of going to Wall Street.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    $$$$$$$
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    Ah, the intellectual perfect world where words should never lead to violence. :P
    Of course, and we can't have that yet. But we can still hold people accountable for their actions. If a police officer reacts with violence in an inappropriate way, said police office should be disciplined or moved to a different role where their anger issues are less of a danger to the general public.
    Yes, thats the ticket, thin out an already underpowered agency so that the good cops get even more stress and clashes by people for not "being there" while NO ONE wants to be a cop but complain none the less, so they may also break and be moved to another department, because we all know people need less cops on the streets and more on a desk.
    The concept you are missing is that Police officers hold a significantly larger amount of legal and physical power over citizens that they need to be held to a higher standard than everyone else.
    I'm not missing the point, that's why I'm all for police officers wearing cameras and having cameras on their vehicles. I'm against the generalization and the baiting of the police force just for the sake of being an ass, thinking that you are on a righteous crusade when what you are actually doing is debilitating the agency that is there to help. It's the kind of people that likes to point and blame, but never step up and either do what they preach or at least offer realistic solutions to the problem.
  • AndrewAndrew
    I'm against the generalization and the baiting of the police force just for the sake of being an ass, thinking that you are on a righteous crusade when what you are actually doing is debilitating the agency that is there to help.
    So you are generalising that everyone who films police officers in action are baiting and purposefully trying to get the cops to be aggressive towards them?
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