This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

A real victory against fake medicine

RymRym
edited July 2010 in News
A real victory against fake medicine!
The British Medical Association (BMA) has voted to stop offering homeopathic treatment on the NHS.
...homeopathic products should no longer be labelled “medicines” and should instead be marked “placebo” when sold in pharmacies.
And, my personal favorite line from the article:
And really, homeopaths shouldn’t be too disappointed. In fact, they should be grateful. After all, by their own logic, the less funding they get, the more effective it will be.
«13

Comments

  • I don't think this kind of thing would ever fly in the United States. The people stupid enough to trust in fake medicine are also stupid enough to equate this type of thing to removing their freedom. I don't think that obviously because I'm not an idiot. That is pretty awesome for out friends across the pond, though!
  • I don't think this kind of thing would ever fly in the United States. The people stupid enough to trust in fake medicine are also stupid enough to equate this type of thing to removing their freedom. I don't think that obviously because I'm not an idiot. That is pretty awesome for out friends across the pond, though!
    Not really, the NHS is the state-funded health care system in England (those fucking socialists), so in reality most of the people you are talking about would be happy that they are cutting government funding ~_^
  • And, my personal favorite line from the article:
    And really, homeopaths shouldn’t be too disappointed. In fact, they should be grateful. After all, by their own logic, the less funding they get, the more effective it will be.
    Awesome
  • My personal favorite was:
    Dr Tom Dolphin of the BMA’s junior doctors committee described homeopathic remedies as “nonsense on stilts”
    Alas, it appears this is more of an advisory action. The doctors (BMA) voted to say homeopathy should not be funded, but the NHS does not appear to be forced to do anything one way or the other.
  • FUCK YES!
  • Bravo. Now fix your internets England... and Australia.
  • Yeah for us! Although lets be honest ,we should never have given it funding in the first place...
  • Yeah for us! Although lets be honest ,we should never have given it funding in the first place...
    Better late than never.
  • Bravo. Now fix your internets England... and Australia.
    Don't look at us, look at the Seppos we're buying the connectivity from.
  • edited December 2010
    Speaking of Australia...

    "The makers of the ridiculous plastic "Power Balance" bracelet, which is selling by the millions everywhere, have been forced to publish a comprehensive statement..."
    Yep, thanks to the Australian Skeptics, whose website also have a few more stories detailing this. I've been celebrating this little win for the last few days - also, I suggest listening to The Skeptic Zone, which is run by some members of Australian Skeptics - Usually Richard Saunders and Stefan Sojka, along with Dr Rachael Dunlop, Kylie Sturgess, Eran Segev, Michael Wolloghan, Dave the Happy Singer, Amanda Rose and Joanne Benhamu - The latest episode actually has Randi Discussing the Power Balance bands, and Rachi discusses the efforts in full.

    Also, We recently had TAM Australia in Sydney, which was, by all reports, a Roaring Success.

    I remember listening to the time Richard Saunders went to Either Mind Body Spirit festival (Known to skeptics around australia as "Mind Body Wallet", it's essentially a trade show for Woo) or Sexpo Sydney, and spoke to a guy who was selling a competing Kind of band - an EK band, or something like that, I don't specifically recall - Who claimed that his bracelets were OBVIOUSLY twice as powerful as the power balance bands, Because they had TWO holograms. I had to turn off the podcast for a bit, because I was laughing to hard to listen to it.

    Though, now that we have that scam out of the way, I personally recommend the Placebo Band. Performs admirably against what it claims, and priced at Two dollars, is a hell of a lot cheaper!
    Post edited by Churba on
  • edited December 2010
    The thing I wonder about regarding fake medicine is - would I do it? No, not take it - I'm not that stupid. I mean, sell it. If I stood to benefit financially from its sale, could I put my misgivings aside and make money doing this egregiously despicable thing? Could I live with myself? How much money would be required so that I could do it?

    It's kind of the same question as being a right wing talk show host. Sure, it would be awful to sit there and talk bullshit for hours, but, if they were going to pay me a few million dollars a year to do it, I might consider it.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • Unlike being a talk show host, you don't need permission from anyone to sell fake medicine. You just do it. It's really cheap and easy to get started. Either invent a new fake medicine or use an existing one. I just came up with one, back pain strips. It's like those nose strips that hold your nose airways open, only bigger and for your back. It's just a stiff sticker you put on your back that relieves back pain by holding the spine in the right position.

    Design it, design the packaging. Get a chinese factory to make a small batch. Start selling them locally to hippies. Then expand and eventually sell nationally with ads on TV, like Head-On. It's all basic product marketing. Marketing becomes really easy since you are flat out lying!

    Why haven't I done it? Same reason I haven't blown up any bridges or buildings. I always complain about every stupid terrorist who fails, and talk about how I could do so much more damage if I were a terrorist, but I'm not evil. I am most thankful that evilness and smartness so rarely occur in the same person. It seems like almost never.
  • Marketing becomes really easy since you are flat out lying!
    The problem comes when you're caught lying, especially here - Power balance is a mild example of what can happen - Ie, Government enforced humiliation, media taking the piss, and the general public knowing that your brand is bullshit.

    For example, I remember when a company that distributes Goji Juice and Acai berry products (One of those silly "Superfoods! antioxidants! FUCKING MIRACLES!" sort of things), got hit with a massive fine for strongly implying they could treat or cure cancer - which is, shockingly, illegal as fuck down here.

    Also, The Australian Vaccination network - The primary anti-vax group in the country - had it's Charity status revoked by the Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing*. They also had public warnings issued about them by the Health Care Complaints Commission and the Chief Medical Officer of Victoria(Who declared them "A risk to Public Health"), and have generally been a target of scorn and derision in the media. They're rapidly losing ground against the Australian Skeptics and the SAVN(Stop the Australia Vaccination Network) Groups.

    * - Yes, Charity licences down here are issued by the Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing. Terribly incongruous, as you don't expect that sort of thing to be issued by a group whose name sounds like the ingredients to a damned good party.
  • The problem comes when you're caught lying, especially here
    In the US lying is patriotic and truth-telling is treason, so it's all good.
  • I just came up with one, back pain strips. It's like those nose strips that hold your nose airways open, only bigger and for your back. It's just a stiff sticker you put on your back that relieves back pain by holding the spine in the right position.
    The problem comes when you're caught lying, especially here
    In the US lying is patriotic and truth-telling is treason, so it's all good.
    Your back pain strips are not an original idea. It's been tried and the FTC came down on the guys who tried it.
  • edited December 2010
    Your back pain strips are not an original idea. It's been tried and the FTC came down on the guys who tried it.
    So how come they don't come down on homeopathy? It's all about carefully wording your marketing. For example, they came down hard on Airborne, which can actually be harfmul, and all they had to do was change the wording on their packaging. Airborne had made so much money that the fines didn't put them out of business.

    For example, Ocillococcinum, perhaps the most popular homoeopathic product, says on the package "for flu symptoms". It doesn't say "cures flu symptoms" or "relieves flu symptoms" just that it's "for flu symptoms." The FTC just looks at your marketing. The trick is to lie without breaking the law. Since you are already a law expert, lying within the law will be easy for you.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • It's all about carefully wording your marketing.
    This times a thousand. It pisses me off royally, because marketers know exactly what they're doing.

    There's a lot more to communication that the specific words that you speak, and advertisers have only become better about it. To continue beating that long-dead horse, it's the route that a lot of organic food producers take; there's a widespread belief that organic foods are healthier for you, but very few organic producers have made any specific claims at all. They've just given you everything you need to draw that conclusion.
  • Why haven't I done it? Same reason I haven't blown up any bridges or buildings. I always complain about every stupid terrorist who fails, and talk about how I could do so much more damage if I were a terrorist, but I'm not evil. I am most thankful that evilness and smartness so rarely occur in the same person. It seems like almost never.
    Why do you think fake medicine is evil? I remember you saying that predatory lenders aren't evil because the people who fall into their traps should have been more careful, smart, and rational. What's the difference between predatory lenders and fake medicine sellers? Is it that you give some slack to sick people in the rationality department?
  • Why do you think fake medicine is evil? I remember you saying that predatory lenders aren't evil because the people who fall into their traps should have been more careful, smart, and rational. What's the difference between predatory lenders and fake medicine sellers? Is it that you give some slack to sick people in the rationality department?
    When did I say that? Predatory lenders use the same sneaky tactics of lying without technically lying and putting traps in the fine print. Of course, if you are getting a big loan for a house or something, and you don't have a lawyer and you don't do the prerequisite financial mathematics, that's pretty stupid right there. Going to the pharmacy even a smart well-meaning person can be fooled. You don't bring a doctor with you to buy cold medicine, and even many legitimate doctors who went to real medical school still believe in fake medicine! Even people who participate in skeptical communities on the Internet can be fooled by a new product if they don't look closely enough. At lest the predatory lenders have the full truth in the fine print. Homeopathy has no fine print. It would be awesome if it said somewhere on the package in tiny letters "this is actually just overpriced water that does nothing."
  • edited December 2010
    Hey, I used to be a Skeptic about it, but there are some benefits to some types of homoeopathy.

    Those little pills are pretty tasty, and make for good ice-cream topping or cake sprinkles in a pinch.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Those little pills are pretty tasty, and make for good ice-cream topping or cake sprinkles in a pinch.
    Too bad they are more expensive than actual sprinkles.
  • Too bad they are more expensive than actual sprinkles.
    Nah, that's an unfortunate upside to them being sold for everything in some pharmacies down here - You can grab a bottle of some of them for a couple of bucks. Sprinkles at the supermarket are comparable in price, depending on which ones you get, and some chemists are 24 hours.
  • This rose extract pill will cure your terrible degenerative disease, and make all your ice cream delicious.
  • Wait, what kind of terrible degenerative disease is caused by roses?
  • Wait, what kind of terrible degenerative disease is caused by roses?
    Love, I'd imagine.
  • edited December 2010
    Hmmm....
    For the $20 I got as Christmas money and the $10 bill I have in my hand, turns out I can start a small homeopathy company.
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • Hmmm....
    For the $20 I got as Christmas money and the $10 bill I have in my hand, turns out I can start a small homeopathy company.
    Why the hell is boric acid one of the most commonly bought items with that??
  • Boric acid can be used as an antiseptic for minor burns or cuts and is sometimes used in dressings or salves or is applied in a very dilute solution as an eye wash in a 1.5% solution (1 tbsp per quart or 15 cm3 per L) of sterilized water.

    As an anti-bacterial compound, boric acid can also be used as an acne treatment. Boric acid can be used to treat yeast and fungal infections such as candidiasis (vaginal yeast infections) by inserting a vaginal suppository containing 600 mg of boric acid daily for 14 days[14] or for yeast infection of the male pubic region (jock-itch or strong genital odor) by applying the powder to the skin all over the pubic region for several days to a week. It is also used as prevention of athlete's foot, by inserting powder in the socks or stockings, and in solution can be used to treat some kinds of otitis externa (ear infection) in both humans and animals. The preservative in urine sample bottles (red cap) in the UK is boric acid.
    Looks like it's one of those "Crazy people using old technology" type things.
  • There can be some truth in "homeopathic" medicine though -- but it's weaved with a lot of lies. For instance, I remember telling one of my patients to not take coral calcium, and she argued with me for the better part of thirty minutes that she needed the calcium for her osteoarthritis. Fair enough, but lady, by the time you're taking the calcium, it's not going to help you anymore. In fact, most vitamin supplements don't show any marked improvement on people in the studies -- you're either too old when you start to use them, or the absorption just isn't there. And these things go in waves, like the recent 400% intake-of-vitamin-D-prevents-breast-cancer thing. That fell through really fast. But anyway, I argued coral calcium isn't regulated by the FDA and there can be a lot of harmful byproducts in the bottle, and the least she could do was to get calcium citrate instead of the coral. But she was slightly right about the calcium part.
    But then again, we use honey dressings on wounds sometimes which are bacteriocidal and promote healing enzymes, and a few decades ago we would have argued that was fake too.
Sign In or Register to comment.