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Currencies that need to go

DromaroDromaro
edited September 2010 in Everything Else
Observe.

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I've been shouting this for YEARS. It's about time someone make the penny and the nickel disappear.
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Comments

  • JasonJason
    edited September 2010
    ... and trigger the instant super-inflation. Great idea.

    His assumption that a penny costs more to produce than it is worth is predicated on a fallacy. It would be true if each penny were only spent once. But money -- stay with me, this is tough -- circulates. Also, he is wrong about the penny being the smallest unit of American currency. Ever been to a gas station? Do you see the 9/10 of a cent on the sign? Have you ever seen Superman 3 (or Office Space)? Every day, millions of transactions occur that result in remainders of a cent. Remove the cent, remove the remainders. Remove the nickle, and quintuple the problem.

    And this doesn't even touch on the psychological ramifications a penny has. Do you want to spend $3 or $2.99? Trite as it may be, the concept of sales is based on undercutting a benchmark price. People react better to the lower dollar amount regardless of the actual cost difference.

    That's nothing next to what companies stand to lose. Let's say Wal-Mart sells 100 cans of corn for 49 cents. That's $4.99, right? Well, let's assume now that they sell 100 cans of corn for 50 cents. That's $5.00. But Wal-Mart doesn't sell 100 cans or corn. Wal-Mart sells 100 million cans of corn. Do the math. A penny isn't worth much in your pocket. It's worth an incredible amount to the economy.

    Heck, anybody playing our forum stock market game knows the importance of a cent. A penny shift on 5000 shares of stock can make or break your investment!

    The real problem here is one of bases. A penny isn't worth one cent. It's worth one unit -- a base unit. Let's say that we remove the penny. The nickle now becomes the base unit. It's not really worth five cents; it now becomes worth one BASE UNIT. Do you get me? Here's the issue: Without a penny, Wal-Mart can't raise the price on that can of corn by one cent anymore. It now has to raise it by five cents. That's the base unit. So without a penny, any price increase is going to be a minimum five times its current rate.

    That's not going to really hurt the rich. But it's certainly going to hurt the poor. If we're playing a percentage game -- which this is -- then who can least afford an 80 percent increase the base unit? The people with the least money. If you want to see the wealth gap widen horrifically, eliminate the penny.

    If we're to eliminate the nickel, too, all the math gets bumped up by an order of magnitude. And so does the trouble.
    Post edited by Jason on
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    Heck, anybody playing our forum stock market game knows the importance of a cent.
    I forgot that game existed.
  • DromaroDromaro
    edited September 2010
    His argument was not abolish currency amounts not ending in $X.X0, his argument was to end the physical production of the coins that represent $0.01 and $0.05 and remove it from circulation.

    He specifically states "places where we normally use coins" as a qualifier. I agree on your points about sale pricing (diff. $2.99 V. $3) but, again, he's not trying to remove $0.01 from the economy but from physical representation.

    I know this sounds FUCKING CRAZY but if everyone had a bank account with some sort of debit card-like payment medium, refund it back to that. By no means do I expect this to change anytime soon but he really does have valid points, even if not presented in a wholly precise manner. He does assume a lot of knowledge on the part of the viewer.

    I fail to see how this move would prompt "super-inflation". Was that based on the assumption you made that he's removing the $0.01 denomination from existence?
    Post edited by Dromaro on
  • thaneofcawdorthaneofcawdor
    If we're to eliminate the nickel, too, all the math gets bumped up by an order of magnitude. And so does the trouble.
    Australia eliminated the 1 and 2 cent coins about 20 years ago, for the reasons quoted in the video.

    Australia, as of 13th September 2010 at 3:43pm AEST, still exists as an economic entity, and thus your argument is poop.
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited September 2010
    Australia eliminated the 1 and 2 cent coins about 20 years ago, for the reasons quoted in the video.

    Australia, as of 13th September 2010 at 3:43pm AEST, still exists as an economic entity, and thus your argument is poop.
    Because removing part of the physical currency a $374.6 billion economy, with a population of 18 million about from 1992 is a PERFECT comparison to removing part of the physical currency of a $14.26 trillion economy, with a population of 307 million or so, with a completely different landscape, climate and economic base, in 2010.

    His argument might be poop, it might not be - but your rebuttal of it is fatally flawed regardless.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • lackofcheeselackofcheese
    The real problem here is one of bases. A penny isn't worth one cent. It's worth one unit -- a base unit. Let's say that we remove the penny. The nickle now becomes the base unit. It's not really worth five cents; it now becomes worth one BASE UNIT. Do you get me? Here's the issue: Without a penny, Wal-Mart can't raise the price on that can of corn by one cent anymore. It now has to raise it by five cents. That's the base unit. So without a penny, any price increase is going to be a minimum five times its current rate.
    As Dromaro has pointed out, simply because pennies don't exist doesn't mean that $0.01 cannot. Any non-cash transaction will have no problems with that amount of money, and you can even keep the psychological impact by continuing to have sticker prices like $2.99 but rounding to the nearest 5c on the bill.
  • thaneofcawdorthaneofcawdor
    His argument might be poop, it might not be - but your rebuttal of it is fatally flawed regardless.
    Damn. Foiled again. You saw through my carefully constructed argument.
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited September 2010
    Damn. Foiled again. You saw through my carefully constructed argument.
    Muhahahahahah! My Nefarious scheme Succeeds again! You'll never be Victorious, Thane!

    Anyway, Don't get toey with me because you made a shit argument. The two are disparate - there just isn't very much valid comparison, and no real comparison that makes any argument against what he's saying, not even a half-arsed one.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • KieyKiey
    I was going to post about the above, but it seems everyone sort of hit on the points I would make. Instead I would suggest that what we need to do in the US is get rid of the dollar bill, and go to the dollar coin. Due to the amount of circulation a dollar bill gets it gets replaced incredibly frequent, so switching to the coin would mean it was more durable, and thus less re-printing/re-minting of the $1, and would save us a good deal of money each year.
  • RymRym
    I am annoyed any time I have to use cash, and would love greatly if everyone just accepted debit/credit. Ideally, I could tap my card on someone's smartphone and pay them right then and there some arbitrary amount. If we could engineer anonymous "cash cards" as well, which worked like credit cards, but weren't linked with a name and counted basically as cash (to preserve the inherent general anonymity of cash), I would be very happy.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    "cash cards"
    I think you mean "credsticks." :P
  • ShiamShiam
    I was going to post about the above, but it seems everyone sort of hit on the points I would make. Instead I would suggest that what we need to do in the US is get rid of the dollar bill, and go to the dollar coin. Due to the amount of circulation a dollar bill gets it gets replaced incredibly frequent, so switching to the coin would mean it was more durable, and thus less re-printing/re-minting of the $1, and would save us a good deal of money each year.
    We've tried, there are in an enormous amount of dollar coins in circulation, especially in comparison to their use. The problem with a dollar coin is that bills are just easier to deal with, and since most people don't normally carry coins, they either sit around or are changed to bills.
    As for the penny, I could stand to have it removed from circulation for many of the same reasons pointed out.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    I could roll with cash cards.
  • AprecheApreche
    Just to be a stickler, the title of the thread should use the word "denominations" instead of the word "currencies".
  • Victor FrostVictor Frost
    I am annoyed any time I have to use cash, and would love greatly if everyone just accepted debit/credit. Ideally, I could tap my card on someone's smartphone and pay them right then and there some arbitrary amount. If we could engineer anonymous "cash cards" as well, which worked like credit cards, but weren't linked with a name and counted basically as cash (to preserve the inherent general anonymity of cash), I would be very happy.
    I could roll with cash cards.
    Cowboy Bebop, anyone?
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    there are in an enormous amount of dollar coins in circulation
    Actually, there's an enormous amount minted, but only a fraction is actually in circulation. People resist change (oh the pun) and don't use them. I don't use them because I'd have to ask for them specifically, like at a bank. I only go to a bank and talk to a teller when I need to make a large withdrawal, otherwise I use an ATM. I can't be bothered to go to a bank, during fucking bizarro bank hours, and get fucking dollar coins. Fuck that noise.
  • ......
    Just to be a stickler, the title of the thread should use the word "denominations" instead of the word "currencies".
    FOILED BY 19 SECONDS!! I wanted to make the smart remark of "So you want to remove the dollar from the world economy? Would be a great way to foil any plans China has!
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    You know what I hate about money here in the US? Every note: green. Every note: same size.

    It's like they've designed the money specifically to make the lives of the blind and foreign visitors as difficult as possible.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    My uncle has a conspiracy theory about devaluing the dollar to nothing and introducing a North American currency of some kind.
  • AprecheApreche
    My uncle has a conspiracy theory about devaluing the dollar to nothing and introducing a North American currency of some kind.
    Really, I would prefer just one world currency.
  • ......
    Really, I would prefer just one worldUniverse-wide currency.
  • AprecheApreche
    Really, I would prefer just oneworldUniverse-widecurrency.
    Nah, the alien's have such a bad economy, it would bring us all down.
  • beefybeefy
    I am annoyed any time I have to use cash, and would love greatly if everyone just accepted debit/credit. Ideally, I could tap my card on someone's smartphone and pay them right then and there some arbitrary amount. If we could engineer anonymous "cash cards" as well, which worked like credit cards, but weren't linked with a name and counted basically as cash (to preserve the inherent general anonymity of cash), I would be very happy.
    This how I feel. At first, I was really resistant to debit cards, but have completely changed my mind on them. I rarely have more than $40 in my wallent at any given time. And most of the time I have less than $10.
    I'm don't think I will see it in my life time, but I'll bet my children will see a money less economy. I know the company I work for, starting next month will not longer issue checks. I will be either direct deposit or a cash card.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    Checks? Those still exist?
  • RochelleRochelle
    Checks? Those still exist?
    Yes. Old people still use them constantly at stores. It's beyond annoying because more stores now just use their check to do an automatic debit out of their account. It's basically a paper debit card that takes longer to process.

    My boyfriend's friend doesn't even have a atm/debit card. It amazes me, but I think his parents only taught him to use cash and checks, so he sticks to that. He has a credit card for emergencies. I don't even know where to begin with trying to teach him the conveniences of a debit card.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Checks? Those still exist?
    My new landlady wants one, it's weird.
  • RochelleRochelle
    My new landlady wants one, it's weird.
    Most apartment complexes are still like that. They require a deposit by check or money order.

    I still pay my rent by check, however my apartment has recently offered the option to pay online but if I did that they charge $25. Unless I set up automatic payment, it's free.
  • NuriNuri
    I am annoyed any time I have to use cash, and would love greatly if everyone just accepted debit/credit. Ideally, I could tap my card on someone's smartphone and pay them right then and there some arbitrary amount. If we could engineer anonymous "cash cards" as well, which worked like credit cards, but weren't linked with a name and counted basically as cash (to preserve the inherent general anonymity of cash), I would be very happy.
    We have these. They are called prepaid VISA (or other company) cards. They are often reloadable. We don't have to engineer shit.
  • RymRym
    We have these. They are called prepaid VISA (or other company) cards. They are often reloadable. We don't have to engineer shit.
    I can't pay, say, some guy on the street with them.
  • AprecheApreche
    We have these. They are called prepaid VISA (or other company) cards. They are often reloadable. We don't have to engineer shit.
    I can't pay, say, some guy on the street with them.
    You can if you just physically give him the entire card, but that is far from ideal.
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