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Min-maxing

Josh BytesJosh Bytes
edited November 2010 in Video Games
What's everybody opinion on players who min-max their characters in RPG and MMO's? Do you view that play style negatively?

Comments

  • SailSail
    This is how I've always played MMOs. I didn't even know there was a name for this until I Googled it just now.
  • KieyKiey
    I think it's something you have to expect in those games, because I think people will naturally try to min-max in a game as best they can.
  • balderdashbalderdash
    Everybody does it in electronic games. You'd be an idiot not to because the games are built for it and sure as shit other players are going to do it.

    As for tabletop RPGs, it's more or less up to you. If you want to be a crunchy dungeon-crawling type, it's the best idea. It's a legitimate option otherwise. It's only a problem when you're playing in a more narrative-focused game and waste all your time thinking about how to kill things instead of participating.

    Is it a little ridiculous? Sure. But you're not playing RPGs to be average schmoes, are you?
  • ShiamShiam
    I prefer maximin.
    Though really it's just playing smartly to some degree, very few games give any advantage to being OK in every field rather than the best in one. The only times I find it obnoxious is when it occurs along with other personality problems that get in the way of my enjoyment of the game.
  • balderdashbalderdash
    By the way, you need to make sure it's clear what you're talking about.

    When I hear "min-maxing," I don't include munchkining, which is straight-up cheating. Maxing out your Strength to hit harder and consequently having a poor Wisdom is min-maxing. Telling the GM that you will role-play PTSD and that you have a hidden foe who will constantly dog your heels if only he'll give you two extra feats so you can be a blender of death at first level is cheating.
  • Johannes Uglyfred IIJohannes Uglyfred II
    edited November 2010
    If a player's goal is to do X, then it makes sense for them to build their character to do X as best or as efficiently as possible. If min-maxing accomplishes that, players will, and should, do it.

    Like balderdash was getting into, the problems only happen when the players at the table have incompatible goals, or their goals don't jive with the kind of game the GM was intending to run. If people have a beef with min-maxing, they should realize that that behavior is only a symptom of the bigger problem - not being on the same page about what they want to do in the game.
    Post edited by Johannes Uglyfred II on
  • Josh BytesJosh Bytes
    edited November 2010
    By the way, you need to make sure it's clear what you're talking about.

    When I hear "min-maxing," I don't include munchkining, which is straight-up cheating. Maxing out your Strength to hit harder and consequently having a poor Wisdom is min-maxing. Telling the GM that you will role-play PTSD and that you have a hidden foe who will constantly dog your heels if only he'll give you two extra feats so you can be a blender of death at first level is cheating.
    No I'm talking about just strait up optimizing your stats for the role you are playing in the game. I didn't know the term min-maxing was also associated with cheating. I'm playing FFXIV at the moment and the game allows you to switch classes. You can switch from various warrior and mage classes. And because of this the game allows you to readjust your stats. But it imposes restrictions which are annoying. And a poster on another community stated that's because the game doesn't want you min-maxing. Which I didn't understand how this was considered cheating.
    Post edited by Josh Bytes on
  • balderdashbalderdash
    You can switch from various warrior and mage classes. And because of this the game allows you to readjust your stats. But it imposes restrictions which are annoying. And a poster on another community stated that's because the game doesn't want you min-maxing. Which I didn't understand how this was considered cheating.
    That's ridiculous. Switching your stats around so you're better at one thing than another is min-maxing. That's the whole point.
  • Johannes Uglyfred IIJohannes Uglyfred II
    If a game's creators decide that min-maxing breaks the mechanics of the game, then they should just put a mandatory base for the stat in the rules. If no such minimum value is in the rules, min-maxing is is fair game.
  • DromaroDromaro
    First let me clarify that I don't associate min-maxing with cheating. Unsporting, perhaps, but not cheating.

    I have no real problem with min-maxing (best defined, briefly, as building ones character to to job X as efficiently as possible as Johannes stated). People min-max in real life all the time so why wouldn't they in a game?
  • lackofcheeselackofcheese
    edited November 2010
    Anything that doesn't break the rules is perfectly fine. That's all there is to it.
    Also, I would call it unsporting not to min-max.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Victor FrostVictor Frost
    Why would it be unsporting?
  • lackofcheeselackofcheese
    Is it unsportsmanlike to throw a boxing match?
  • DromaroDromaro
    edited November 2010
    Anything that doesn't break the rules is perfectly fine. That's all there is to it.
    I would slightly disagree. You need to take the spirit or the intent of the game into account. D&D; is a friggin' dungeon crawl and 90%+ of the time that's all it is. Unless your in an aberrant D&D; campaign you should make yourself the most efficient killing machine possible. In a game like Free Market, there is no clear cut goal until the game begins so you don't know what to min-max in advance.
    Post edited by Dromaro on
  • DromaroDromaro
    Why would it be unsporting?
    I doubt very much that the majority of game designers take the min-max'er in mind when making their game. I've only dabbled in game design but I know I'd shoot to have a balanced, fun play experience rather than accentuating path X, Y, or Z because the impact on the game would be the most massive. Accounting for it and minimizing it seems the more even path.

    DISCLAIMER : I'm medicated at this moment so if I'm not making complete sense, bear that in mind. =D
  • AprecheApreche
    Play by the rules of the game.

    If playing by the rules of the game breaks the game, the game sucks.

    That's all there is to it.
  • ChurbaChurba
    D&D; is a friggin' dungeon crawl and 90%+ of the time that's all it is.
    HA! I bet one of my mates a fiver that that it'd be under twenty posts before someone mentioned D&D;, and a bonus five if it included the words "Dungeon crawl" and saying that's pretty much all there is to the game. I'm gonna go buy myself a coffee.
  • lackofcheeselackofcheese
    A good bet, that one.
  • ChurbaChurba
    A good bet, that one.
    Easy bet, good bet, same difference.
  • DromaroDromaro
    You owe me a coffee for all the money I won you.
  • ChurbaChurba
    You owe me a coffee for all the money I won you.
    If you'd convinced, conned, or otherwise got Rym or Scott to say it, I'd have made an extra five, and I'd buy you a muffin, too.
  • DromaroDromaro
    You owe me a coffee for all the money I won you.
    If you'd convinced, conned, or otherwise got Rym or Scott to say it, I'd have made an extra five, and I'd buy you a muffin, too.
    FML
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