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Advice for a web design freelancer?

edited November 2010 in Technology
Looks like I might have a freelance-y web design job soon, and I know all about web design, but I don't know so much about the other stuff. For example, how much do I charge and how do I negotiate a rate? How do I deal with hosting? Do I tell the client what to buy and how to give me access, or should I not trust them with that? Is there anything else I should know?

Comments

  • Don't freelance.
  • I recently went to this future of web design conference because of work. The designers talked a great deal about dealing with clients and all that kind of stuff. I mostly didn't care, since that's not my deal. However, I did come to realize that is A LOT to deal with, and even all those big-name designers can't agree on the "right" way to do things.

    The only advice I can really give is that you can and should probably charge a lot more money than you think, if you actually have skill that is.

    And if you do have skill, do you want to help me out? I've got a lot of projects in the hopper that are mostly coded, and just have no front end. They look a lot like IDShare, with no CSS or anything.
  • edited November 2010
    My advice from personal experience is: Run away, fast, and far away.

    http://freelanceswitch.com/rates/

    Take into account right management for the pictures used on the site, SEO, maintenance, and if needed content management (as in "the customer is too thick to learn how to use wordpress or whatever content manager you use, so you have to upload shit as well") fees.

    Write down the goals of the project, the amount of revisions to be done to the design that is included in the initial fee, expected functionality and features of the project, and a reasonable deadline (with some extra days to spare). The guy I've teamed up to work freelances with usually buys the domains and server hosting packages for the customer and the charges for monthly or yearly fees added to the maintenance fees.

    And finally, your customer is an idiot, so explain to him why even though pink, blue and red are his favorite colors, they might not be best for the design, and never be afraid to whip out the contract when they try to push you around to make extra changes or add extra features at no cost.
    Post edited by MrRoboto on
  • And if you do have skill, doyou want to help me out? I've got a lot of projects in the hopper that are mostly coded, and just have no front end. They look a lot like IDShare, with no CSS or anything.
    What are you looking for, front end wise?
  • A lot of these questions depends on the client you're dealing with. There should be an initial free meeting to hash out everything. Here you can gauge what the client really needs. Also you can gauge how much you charge them. Next after the meeting you list everything you think is needed, like web hosting, time for the design, etc. Add it all up and send them the estimate. Err on the heavy side with the estimate.
  • The advice about charging more than you think your worth if you know you can do the work is great. The only thing I will add is that you should never under any circumstances provide design work for free in hopes of landing a gig. You WILL wind up getting screwed that way, from downright theft of your work, to having a potential client show your spec product to someone who will make it cheaper.
  • edited December 2010
    Also, I've come into work in the past where companies had no strong online presence to start (this was always with local businesses). In one instance, their logo existed only in a shoddy low-res scan of a 10 year old business card. They were interested in a complete re-branding, and if you are more like me and can handle the CSS side of things with no sweat, but can't create custom graphics worth a dime, I recommend 99designs.com as an invaluable resource that can hook you up with an inexpensive designer for a flashy logo, then you do the rest.
    Post edited by Matt on
  • Is there much danger of a high estimate leading to the client looking for a different designer instead, or are they more likely to negotiate a lower rate? These guys seem pretty laid back, but I haven't had our initial meeting yet.
    Also, I've come into work in the past where companies had no strong online presence to start (this was always with local businesses)
    This is basically what I'm dealing with. They have a MySpace page and a Facebook profile (yes, a profile, with friends and everything, not a page) and group. They have a logo (it's just text), but I'll probably want to redo it with their permission.
  • My ex-girlfriend was screwed with this all the time. She designed a company website while she worked there, and just worked in the office for salary. Then she started doing the graphic design for other companies, and NEVER charged enough.

    The client MUST pay for ALL the time you spend on the project. It's no good just paying for the time you are coding, because if you are good, that is the smallest job. Also take into account all the time you'll be spending talking to the client, all the time you'll be organizing shit, all the time you'll be THINKING about the job, etc, etc, etc. Also make clear what they are going to get. Will it be a one time static design? Tell them one price for a one time delivery, but double it or triple it immediately if they are allowed to give feedback and ask for changes.


    I am a freelancer, and I "work" just two hours per gig. However, any time I work, I get paid by the WEEK. I travel a lot, of course, but no matter what, my time and energy has to be paid for. Even if I get a gig which lasts less than a day, I still charge my WEEKLY fee. This has lead to me getting paid over two thousand euros for juggling for 3.7 seconds.

    My brother is a freelancer, and whenever he told me what he charged, I always said "Wow, that's really cheap!" He had a session with a business management adviser, and the main message this guy had for my brother was "Seriously, you can charge way, way, way more."
  • I was talking to a photographer, and he said it always annoys clients when he takes their photo on the first attempt, says thank you, and then starts packing up. They seemed to think he was getting paid for the 1/125th of a second the shutter was open.
  • For example, how much do I charge and how do I negotiate a rate? How do I deal with hosting? Do I tell the client what to buy and how to give me access, or should I not trust them with that? Is there anything else I should know?
    Freelance webdesign rates depend heavily on the client. The same $100 website for an artist is a $3,000 website for a corporation. A friend of mine charges a flat fee (for a four-page site) of around $600, and then $100 for every additional page. Hint: if the client agrees to the rate without batting an eye, you could have charged them a lot more.

    I usually don't bill for time, but do weekly, like Luke. That way you don't have to worry about clients complaining about your business process, or thinking they've been swindled (when they don't understand the terms "brainstorming" or "progress bar").

    Hosting-wise, it depends on how much business you are thinking of doing. I bought a Linode VPS that I've been hosting client stuff on, and I charge them a nominal fee (to cover my expenses and maintenance time). I don't do it to make money, though. I just can't stand the terrible hosting solutions most people have. If they want their own hosting, I'd suggest having them purchase, just in case they change their mind at the last second.

    Clients are fickle, overzealous, and inexperienced. If you let them, they will drag out a project with a million revisions, then complain when you bill them for it. They will belittle your work even as they praise your skills, and assume you'll provide "small favours" for free down the line. Make sure you explicitly tell them if it's a one-off project, or negotiate a rate (monthly retainers are nice) for a certain number of hours of work.
  • And if you do have skill, doyou want to help me out? I've got a lot of projects in the hopper that are mostly coded, and just have no front end. They look a lot like IDShare, with no CSS or anything.
    What are you looking for, front end wise?
    Basically I make some web apps of varying complexity. Along the lines of IDShare style. It's really easy for me to crank out the back end. However, while I am very good at HTML/CSS/JS I don't really enjoy it. And while I can do it, I don't have the design skills to actually do things like picking colors and fonts that look good and such. If I had a reliable designer to team up with, I could really crank out some hot shit.

    Basically what I want is a Craigslist kind of style. No images, no fancy shit that confuses people. Just straightforward text and links and such. I just also want it to have nice colors and really nice fonts. When text is all you've got, typography is super important.

    Also, these kinds of projects are changing all the time. This isn't like, make a site for a restaurant and that's it. These are actual applications. If people start using them, then they will be incrementally improving at a steady rate, so I would prefer someone who was willing to stick with it. Of course, since I do know a lot about HTML/CSS/JS I would be reasonably ok on my own once the foundation is set, but it would be better to have someone stick with it, especially when new features might be larger in scope.
  • Yeah, I could do that.
  • What everyone has said above is totally true. I will just summarize what I've learned from my experiences, and I think is relevant to your situation.

    1. Unless you are very experienced and have been doing this forever, it will ALWAYS take you way longer than expected.
    2. Due to various situations, you will most likely not get the compensation you deserve.

    Freelancing is so tricky, and it is hard to be successful at it. As some have already mentioned in this thread, clients tend to be awful in various ways. The worst are the dumb ones that have no idea what is feasible and how much skill and manual labor goes into this, and the ones who try to cheat you ("I'm not paying you for that, I could've done that is Office!").

    From your initial post, it seems that you are trying to make an entire website, but are inexperienced with many aspects of it. There is so much that goes into it, you will end up having to spend a ton of time trying to figure stuff out, and will probably do a lot of things wrong or inefficiently (not meant to be an insult, just speaking from my own experience when I started out). Be aware that the client will keep asking for a ton of features as you go through the project and it will get way complicated and beyond what you initially thought. Just be ready for this!

    Anyway, in summary, there is one thing you must do. Make a contract!! Try to figure out exactly what they want, and agree with them that they want "X" done. Do your best to intelligently decide how long it might take you, and give them a quote (although as I said before, it will take you way longer). You can agree on a flat rate at first, whatever you feel comfortable with. But be very clear that if they want ANYTHING else from what you initially agreed, you will charge them an hourly (or whatever) rate. You will probably be tempted to give them free things here and there, and it will creep up on you. That is your decision, but beware you will probably end up not being compensated in the end for what you deserve.

    Now to contradict everything I've just said, if you have nothing else to do and don't need a lot of money from this, you can always just not worry so much about the money stuff and use this as experience and something to put on your portfolio. Don't do this too much though, like me, and end up doing tons of free work. x_X
  • Two tricks I learned at the conference to deal with bad clients.

    First, constant communication so it is very clear what they are getting and what they want. Don't just do a bunch of work and then go TA DA! Let them see the work slowly evolve so there are no surprises. One guy even had a setup that slowly revealed each component of the site one at a time. It even started monochrome and revealed colors after. This kept the clients attention on what he was talking about, and helped them consider things like the layout without being distracted by colors and such.

    The second thing I heard a lot was the "phase 2" trick. Clients would call them up "oh I got this great idea!" and they would say "That is great, let's put it in phase 2" That way you do what you promised on your first contract with no extra stupid work, and you get paid. Then if they actually want all that other stuff, they have to contract you again for phase 2. If they want you to just keep working forever, then they should hire you has a full time employee.
  • Thanks for all the advice, guys! I'm calling the client at 4:00 once I'm finished with class.
  • I really, really like the phase 2 concept of keeping clients' racing minds at bay
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