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If you made cars

edited December 2010 in Everything Else
My father and I were discussing how the "check engine" lights on the dashboard is about as descriptive as "Windows has encountered an error and must close." I then came up with the idea that the dashboard could have a display to tell you exactly, if not very closely, what the problem is.

So, if you were a car designer/maker, what features would you have in your autos?

Comments

  • So, if you were a car designer/maker, what features would you have in your autos?
    (this is assuming I'm a good guy, out to better humanity, not my wallet. In other words, I'm me, given a car company)
    1) Open hardware and software specs
    2) Concerted effort to standardize all parts across all lines, if possible.
    3) No more bullshit yearly cycles.
  • more info on the dash, not just "oh shit" lights.
  • Have you ever seen a mechanic's diagnostic machine?

    Why the fuck can't they just build those into the car?
  • edited December 2010
    Have you ever seen a mechanic's diagnostic machine?

    Why the fuck can't they just build those into the car?
    Three words: Dealer Service Center.

    Seriously, if you raked it in as much as they do when servicing a car, would you make it so any shlep could know whats wrong?
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • 2) Concerted effort to standardize all parts across all lines, if possible.
    Parts for cars aren't standard for a very good reason. BMW makes both the 1-Series and the M3. You can't to M3 things with 1-series parts. The brakes alone wouldn't be enough to stop you at the speed that engine can get to.
  • Have you ever seen a mechanic's diagnostic machine?

    Why the fuck can't they just build those into the car?
    Because it's $89 just for him to plug it into your car. Mad bank.
  • Are any of these OBD-II addapters any use? The dad's a car person and I might show him these.
  • Parts for cars aren't standard for a very good reason. BMW makes both the 1-Series and the M3. You can't to M3 things with 1-series parts. The brakes alone wouldn't be enough to stop you at the speed that engine can get to.
    You chose an extremely poor example for this, but I'm just gonna let it go.
  • Ok, I'm glad you people aren't designing cars. There are many good reasons, and one bad reason, that they do not, and should not, give detailed information on the dash board.

    The bad reason is that they want you to go to a mechanic, hopefully the dealer, to fix your car. They also want to make a ton of money selling service manuals and diagnostic computers. Therefore, they make sure you can not get the detailed information without some proprietary hardware and software. The correct solution to this problem is to just make all the car's data available in a standard format over regular old USB to any computer.

    Now for a bunch of good reasons that a check engine light is all that is needed on the dash board to warn you of trouble in the car.

    1) You are driving the car. You don't have time to read even a sentence. You can't be distracted. The dash board needs to have information that can be processed instantly with minimal distraction. In recent experiments they put MPG meters on cars to see how it changed people's driving. It worked, people started trying to maximize MPG. However, when they made the meter too big, people were distracted so much that they had a statistically significant rise in accidents. They had to stop that study and shrink the size of the meter again because people were having too many accidents.

    2) Most people don't know how a car works beyond gas is go, brake is stop, turn the wheel. Most in the US can't even drive stick. What makes you think they are going to understand an actual explanation of what is wrong with a car? If given an actual explanation, it will result in great stupidity. Some people already ignore check engine lights. Even more people will be ignoring serious and dangerous problems because they don't understand a diagnostic readout or even a simple one sentence explanation. I don't even want to think about what could happen if a moron tried to fix their own car.

    3) It's just really bad design. Try to imagine Apple designing a car. Despite being evil, they are arguably the greatest industrial designers in the world. Think about that dash board. What do you think it's going to look like. Yeah, I'm thinking something more along the lines of as few lights and as little information as is possible. Detailed technical readouts, not so much.

    If you are mechanically inclined, and you want to fix it yourself when the check engine light comes on, you can go and buy your own automotive diagnostic setup to get the data out of the car the same way the mechanics do. You can also be sure to get something that is compatible with your particular car. Alternatively, you can get a fancy car, such as the Skyline GT-R, which has a built-in computer with detailed technical readouts and visualizations.
  • Most in the US can't even drive stick.
    I can count on one hand the number of people I know at my university that can drive a stick (including myself).
  • Therefore, they make sure you can not get the detailed information without some proprietary hardware and software. The correct solution to this problem is to just make all the car's data available in a standard format over regular old USB to any computer.
    Scott, that's actually a really good idea. I wonder why they don't do that - However, I will point out that you don't need Proprietary software and hardware. Every car in the US since 1996 and EU made since about 2000 is required to meet all applicable standards for OBD-II, which is about 10 or 11 SAE standards, and about 4 or 5 comprehensive ISO standards. All you need is a working connector - not hard to obtain(Or build yourself), and it's a standard plug and pinout across pretty much all vehicles, and there are only five signal protocols - Add some open source or free software(pyOBD is generally a winner, but your mileage may vary), and you're good to go.
  • I wonder why they don't do that
    I wasn't aware that OBD-II was standardized. I had heard that many care manufacturers were still adding lots of proprietary non-standard things to give the dealer service centers a competetive advantage, and to charge rents to independent mechanics who wanted to service their vehicles fully. It's all part of the same scams they have going on. They have fancy keys that you can't just copy at Home Depot, so you have to pay them hundreds to get a new set if you lose them. They gladly give you a driver's manual for free with the car, but want to charge an obscene amount for the complete service manual. They can't DRM the car itself, so they DRM as many separate parts of it as possible to squeeze every last dollar out of mechanics and drivers.
  • I had heard that many care manufacturers were still adding lots of proprietary non-standard things to give the dealer service centers a competetive advantage, and to charge rents to independent mechanics who wanted to service their vehicles fully.
    Oh, absolutely. They are, in simple terms, ripoff artists.
    It's all part of the same scams they have going on.
    I'm reticent to give any sort of blanket judgement on the issue, but quite a bit of it is little more than just improving their method of sucking money out of your metaphorical wallet.
    They have fancy keys that you can't just copy at Home Depot, so you have to pay them hundreds to get a new set if you lose them.
    Err, I can think of a few good reasons for that - it prevents people simply copying the key trivially, if they don't want extra keys floating around that they don't know about. It won't stop a determined attacker, but it's a good deterrent/preventative measure for most amateur hour attacks. However, when it's your landlord doing it, then it's a scam, so that if you lose a key, they can fuck you for a few hundred bucks. Say, your company having keys like that to their corporate premises or the like - less so.
    They gladly give you a driver's manual for free with the car, but want to charge an obscene amount for the complete service manual.
    Well, that varies from car to car. I picked up the complete service manual for my old mini from a second-hand bookstore for five bucks. Though, I don't think I've seen one for what I'd call an obscene amount of money, considering what it is - but since I'm so out of date, I'll check at the next opportunity.
  • How come no one has designed an open source car yet?
  • Well, that varies from car to car. I picked up the complete service manual for my old mini from a second-hand bookstore for five bucks. Though, I don't think I've seen one for what I'd call an obscene amount of money, considering what it is - but since I'm so out of date, I'll check at the next opportunity.
    I've seen plenty of them pirated online for free. The point is that buying them from official channels is $$$$.
  • How come no one has designed an open source car yet?
    There are open source ECU projects in the performance tuning communities.
  • edited December 2010
    How come no one has designed an open source car yet?
    I have no response that isn't a combination of "Have you seen the Open source community?", The picture of "The Homer" Mr Macross used above, and laughter.

    Except for the one where I omit the picture of "The Homer".
    Post edited by Churba on
  • How come no one has designed an open source car yet?
    Take the zealotry in the tech world (particularly open source) and combine that with brand zealotry in the automotive world. It'd be a whole new class of geekery and most likely result in a lot more people who claim to be geeks being looked down upon by a lot more groups. "Oh, you drive a Toyota? That gets good gas mileage, but it doesn't have nearly the same performance as my custom Linux Mustang!"
  • edited December 2010
    Take the zealotry in the tech world (particularly open source) and combine that with brand zealotry in the automotive world. It'd be a whole new class of geekery and most likely result in a lot more people who claim to be geeks being looked down upon by a lot more groups. "Oh, you drive a Toyota? That gets good gas mileage, but it doesn't have nearly the same performance as my custom Linux Mustang!"
    It's cute that you think this doesn't already exist.
    Post edited by George Patches on
  • This entire thread is kinda like that, George.
  • yeah, pretty much
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