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America in Decline?

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  • Unions are a double-edged sword. Sometimes, they are absolutely necessary to stop employees from becoming indentured servants (see teachers). Other times, they are a cancer that destroy the long-term viability of their respective industries (see auto-makers). I used to say that I was anti-union, but it's not a binary situation. I wholeheartedly fight for the right of workers to unionize... sometimes... in certain situations... on some things... to a certain point.
    I agree that sometimes you absolutely need a union, and sometimes you don't. If you have one when it's not needed, things get real bad. If you need one, and you don't have it, things also get really bad.

    For example, professional athletes actually do need a union. If your most marketable skill is baseball, there's only one employer. Having only one employer is like if you sell something and there is only one person who buys it. They control your destiny, and completely own you. You either do what they say, or suffer dire consequences. You need a union, so that you have some control over your own destiny.

    In other cases, like convention centers, unions are just a pain. There are plenty of other employers for people who work at convention centers in security, foodservice, technology, maintenance, etc. There's no reason for those workers to unionize. It just fucks over the people who rent out the space.

    The really hard cases are the ones like teachers. On the one hand, teachers really only have one employer, the government. Therefore, they definitely need a union of some kind, otherwise they get completely boned. That doesn't mean the union is all good, though. In New York City, and other places, the teachers fight for themselves, and the welfare of the students receives great collateral damage.
  • The problem with convention unions (especially at the Philly convention center) is the center has like 7 unions with different rules represented. If the convention center just had one union it would be INFINITELY easier to deal with the convention center.

    Teachers can always work at Private schools Scott.... so that example is poor the way you used it.

    Otherwise I agree.
  • Teachers can always work at Private schools Scott.... so that example is poor the way you used it.
    Yes, but there aren't really enough private schools for all the teachers. There are a bunch of tiny sports leagues other than the MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL also. The thing is that the big ones are the vast majority of the market. The NFL still needs a union even though the UFL exists. Public school teachers still need a union even though private schools exist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Football_League_(2009%E2%80%93)< />
  • edited February 2011
    Just to clarify things, the US != the world, so speaking of the decline of the US is not the same thing as crying that the world is going to end. The world will go on, but the US will not be the BMOC. To further clarify things, nations do actually decline. See Spain, the UK, and the USSR (and Imperial Russia before it). Although they didn't decline for the same reasons the US will, they show that decline is inevitable. It's not just the old cliche of one generation saying that the newer one sux.

    Something that concerns me is that the rich have been steadily giving themselves tax breaks, steadily investing more and more overseas, and dismantling the manufacturing base of the US. These actions seem very, very much like a small business owner trying to liquidate all they can before the business fails, kinda like in the Angry Dad dot-com bust Simpsons episode where the dot-com guys where ripping out all the copper pipes from the wall they could get before they were evicted from their building.
    Our infrastructure is ancient and nearing the tail end of a long decline cycle with little substantive improvements on a mass scale.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. Further, I can remember a time (This is not rose-colored glasses. This is a fair assessment. Things really used to be like this. See, for example, the polluition debate in the early 70s.) when there could be a rational national discussion about infrastructure and what to do about it, including raising taxes (OMG!!!1!!!). These days, if anyone in government so much as whispered to their spouse that something might need to be done about infrastructure, Beck, Limbaugh, Pail, et al. would be howling all over FOX News about communism. Then they'd organize a bunch of poor schmoes to protest, "I don't want my infrastructure improved! I want more tax breaks for the rich guys who are trying to screw me!"

    Is it foreseeable that there'll one day be two levels of employment in the US, i.e. movie star and McDonald's night manager, with nothing in between?
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • Yeah, I definitely think the world as a whole is going up, it's just the US that's going down. It's like a team that gets used to winning the championship every single year is just going to be a regular old good team that makes the playoffs and loses. We feel really bad about it, because emotions react to relative change, not current absolute status. Moving from 1 to 2 feels really shitty. Moving from 5 to 6, doesn't feel bad at all. Moving from 9 to 2 is awesome!
  • Don't count out the U.S. yet. While nations can decline, they can also improve. Who knows, maybe you haven't seen anything yet! I can tell you that people who turned nothing into something using their abilities and hard work and inventiveness made the U.S. into a superpower. The naysayers didn't.

    (P.S. why on earth would anyone waste their time listening to Beck, Limbaugh or Palin or Maher? Why listen to anyone who gets paid to be controversial unless you're into that stuff I guess.)
  • Don't count out the U.S. yet. While nations can decline, they can also improve. Who knows, maybe you haven't seen anything yet! I can tell you that people who turned nothing into something using their abilities and hard work and inventiveness made the U.S. into a superpower. The naysayers didn't.
    I definitely believe that individual people in the US can make good, but people in any country can do that. The problem is that the levels of corruption and inefficiency in the US are on the rise. We are nowhere near as bad as many countries where bribery is a daily occurrence, but it's still not good. Also, our laws are not only failing to keep up with technological advancement, they are actively trying to stifle it. The countries that care less about intellectual property or propping up dying mega-businesses are going to overtake us quite soon. And those hard working inventive people are very likely to flee the US as conditions worsen.
  • edited February 2011
    In Soviet Russia, USA decline you!
    Post edited by KapitänTim on
  • edited February 2011
    Don't count out the U.S. yet. While nations can decline, they can also improve.
    That's why Rome, Greece, and Constantinople made those big comebacks. Oh, wait . . .
    In Soviet Russia, USA decline you!
    I'm sorry sir, but your Patriot Act ID Card has been declined. Please step this way for the plane to Guantanamo.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • Don't count out the U.S. yet. While nations can decline, they can also improve.
    We have a fairly solid history of long-term decline, immediate crisis, and then rapid recovery followed by surprising advancement. I would suspect that our infrastructural problems will come to a head, and out of the ashes of the short-term crisis will rise the world's greatest telecommunications and transportation network, coupled with substantial economic recovery due to skilled labor demands and re-investment.
  • Don't count out the U.S. yet. While nations can decline, they can also improve.
    We have a fairly solid history of long-term decline, immediate crisis, and then rapid recovery followed by surprising advancement. I would suspect that our infrastructural problems will come to a head, and out of the ashes of the short-term crisis will rise the world's greatest telecommunications and transportation network, coupled with substantial economic recovery due to skilled labor demands and re-investment.
    Dream until your dreams come true.
  • Joe has such negative power, it is truly astonishing. A few years ago, I bought a Ronco Deflectomaticâ„¢ that renders me immune to negative energy. I have to say though, that I might have to buy new batteries after Joe's latest onslaught. The bottom line is that everyone needs to read Viktor Frankl (and maybe some Timothy Leary) and relax. Use that 3lbs of gray stuff to create your own world. It can be my land of unicorns and rainbows or Joe's inferno, either way it's your choice. To me life is about achieving your potential, meeting your obligations (that you choose) and generally having a good time. If you want to be miserable, that's actually pretty easy. If you want more, well roll up your sleeves, but it is possible. Some people (like Rym) are born happy, will always be happy and pretty much nothing you can do will make them unhappy. Lucky boy!

    USA! USA! USA!!!
  • edited February 2011
    Y'know where everything is just fine?

    Canada.
    If everything is just fine, Why were you bitching just the other day about the internet providers?
    Unions are a double-edged sword. Sometimes, they are absolutely necessary to stop employees from becoming indentured servants (see teachers). Other times, they are a cancer that destroy the long-term viability of their respective industries (see auto-makers). I used to say that I was anti-union, but it's not a binary situation. I wholeheartedly fight for the right of workers to unionize... sometimes... in certain situations... on some things... to a certain point.
    And sometimes, they turn into organized crime.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Y'know where everything is just fine?

    Canada.
    If everything is just fine, Why were you bitching just the other day about the internet providers
    Small price to pay for a country that's not a joke.
  • edited February 2011
    Wow, are you sure you don't know Nine?
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • edited February 2011
    Kaptain K is Nine. I can't keep this charade going.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • edited February 2011
    Are you in on it or is that just your deduction?
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Somehow, if Kaptain K actually is Nine, it makes almost everything he has said hilarious to me.
  • Who is Nine?
  • Who is Nine?
    Before your time. Think Kaptain K, but ~40% more constructive and not gay. Much more Dutch though, so he's still got the whole my-country's-better-than-yours thing going.
  • Before your time. Think Kaptain K, but ~40% more constructive and not gay. Much more Dutch though, so he's still got the whole my-country's-better-than-yours thing going.
    Basically. Here's a screenshot of the shocking reveal.
  • Before your time. Think Kaptain K, but ~40% more constructive and not gay. Much more Dutch though, so he's still got the whole my-country's-better-than-yours thing going.
    Basically. Here's a screenshot of the shocking reveal.
    That makes me so happy.

    image
  • Hahahahahah! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
    If that is real, it is the best thing ever.
    And if it really is Nine, I Luuuuuv you!
  • edited February 2011
    It's a pleasant thought, and I'd be quite happy to have Nine back in full force, although it's hard to know for sure.
    It makes sense, since I wouldn't have thought Nine could stay away from here for long.

    Still, if both Kaptain K and Nine are the same person, it proves, despite the protests of either persona, that both are part-troll (or schizophrenic, I guess).
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • I wish I possessed the hubris to make a counter-photoshop.
  • That doesn't strike me as WindUpBird's M.O.
    You would have been more convincing if you'd said that you lied.
  • I wish I possessed the hubris to make a counter-photoshop.
    I can't Photoshop worth a good goddamn. Own your comments, man.
  • Basically. Here's a screenshot of the shocking reveal.
    Posted 0 seconds ago? You had to have posted that. WINDUPBIRD, YOU ARE KAPTAIN K.
  • You sir are a fraud.
  • Basically. Here's a screenshot of the shocking reveal.
    Posted 0 seconds ago? You had to have posted that. WINDUPBIRD, YOU ARE KAPTAIN K.
    !!!!
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