If it's one thing that PAX taught me, it's that there's like six people who know how to shuffle cards right.
My grandpa taught me to play gin/rummy, poker, casino, backgammon and many other important games at an age I can't even remember. We would even bet with match sticks. That is probably largely responsible for my geeky nature.
If it's one thing that PAX taught me, it's that there's like six people who know how to shuffle cards right.
My grandpa taught me to play gin/rummy, poker, casino, backgammon and many other important games at an age I can't even remember. We would even bet with match sticks. That is probably largely responsible for my geeky nature.
I never learned to shuffle (no one except my aunt Graça over in Portugal could really shuffle well in my family), unfortunately. Still, I did learn chess and checkers from my dad as well as various Portuguese gambling card games (with no idea if they exist in the U.S. and what their English names were). We usually used buttons or Monopoly money for our bets though.
I know you guys strongly dislike CCGs of any sort, but card sleeves are practically essential in that type of game, especially if you want to preserve your valuable cards. Its also mandatory to use sleeves in a tournament setting, since wear and tear can make certain cards more distinguishable from other cards.
I honestly dont see what is so bad about sleeving cards. It preserves your game, and it makes shuffling without bending a whole lot easier. It also helps distinguish your cards from other people's cards, and gives you more customization options.
but card sleeves are practically essential in that type of game,
Every sanctioned Magic tournament I ever played in, they were banned. Granted, this was a long time ago, but they were banned due to how easily you can cheat with them.
but card sleeves are practically essential in that type of game,
Every sanctioned Magic tournament I ever played in, they were banned. Granted, this was a long time ago, but they were banned due to how easily you can cheat with them.
Definitely not banned anymore. Wizards has a licensing deal with Ultra Pro to do branded sleeves, and who would leave it past WotC to use their tournament formats to drive more purchases.
I'm half tempted to sleeve my copy of Yomi because the cards are so thin and bend so easily, but I really don't want to.
Dude, the designer made Yomi with real playing card stock rather than the UV printed cardboard that most card games use specifically because he wanted them to be shuffled and handled like real playing cards.
Sleeves on Dominion is one thing. Sleeves on Yomi is like punching his design choices in the dick.
I'm half tempted to sleeve my copy of Yomi because the cards are so thin and bend so easily, but I really don't want to.
Dude, the designer made Yomi with real playing card stock rather than the UV printed cardboard that most card games use specifically because he wanted them to be shuffled and handled like real playing cards.
Sleeves on Dominion is one thing. Sleeves on Yomi is like punching his design choices in the dick.
Have you actually held or played with a Yomi card? While they might be made with real playing card stock, they're about half as thick, and don't naturally resume their original shape like real playing cards do.
Bend a Yomi card, even a little, and it stays bent.
Have you actually held or played with a Yomi card? While they might be made with real playing card stock, they're about half as thick, and don't naturally resume their original shape like real playing cards do.
I have handled hundreds of decks of regular playing cards in my day. I have had decks both better and worse quality than the Yomi cards, but the Yomi cards are still quite good. The only playing cards that are better are real "bicycle" decks that have the plastic coating. I never understood why games don't make the cards with that same coating on it. Even so, the Yomi cards are still great. They shuffle nicely, and only a clumsy oaf would ruin them. I was able to handle cards just fine at the age of three. If you are old enough to be in this forum, you should be able to handle a deck of Yomi cards properly. If not, don't play Yomi.
The only playing cards that are better are real "bicycle" decks that have the plastic coating.
Bicycle is a brand of cards, not a designation, thus, quote marks not needed. However, they are some goddamn fine cards - Play with them long enough, and 99% of other playing cards feel chinzy and poorly made by comparison. Also, curiously, the cards of choice for Magicians everywhere.
The only playing cards that are better are real "bicycle" decks that have the plastic coating.
Bicycle is a brand of cards, not a designation, thus, quote marks not needed. However, they are some goddamn fine cards - Play with them long enough, and 99% of other playing cards feel chinzy and poorly made by comparison. Also, curiously, the cards of choice for Magicians everywhere.
I know it's a brand, but I put it in quotes because I'm using it sort of like the term Band-Aid or Kleenex where it can refer to equivalent products from other brands. I consider Bee and Tally-Ho brand cards to be just as good as Bicycle, in my experience. Thing is, pretty much every grocery and drug store in the US sells Bicycle and that's it.
Have you actually held or played with a Yomi card? While they might be made with real playing card stock, they're about half as thick, and don't naturally resume their original shape like real playing cards do.
I have handled hundreds of decks of regular playing cards in my day. I have had decks both better and worse quality than the Yomi cards, but the Yomi cards are still quite good. The only playing cards that are better are real "bicycle" decks that have the plastic coating. I never understood why games don't make the cards with that same coating on it. Even so, the Yomi cards are still great. They shuffle nicely, and only a clumsy oaf would ruin them. I was able to handle cards just fine at the age of three. If you are old enough to be in this forum, you should be able to handle a deck of Yomi cards properly. If not, don't play Yomi.
While I agree with you that the Yomi cards shuffle well, they're still too thin, and don't "snap back" to their natural shape. I may not have been a card shuffling savant like you since the age of three, but I still know how to shuffle. That doesn't mean that everyone I play with can shuffle perfectly, or accidents can't happen, and, as others have already mentioned, repeated usage will damage cards regardless of how well you treat them.
The lack of thickness of the cards, combined with their lack of elasticity to resume their natural shape, you're more likely to have bent cards, which is why I'm considering sleeving them, just to add some support and thickness.
Every sanctioned Magic tournament I ever played in, they were banned. Granted, this was a long time ago, but they were banned due to how easily you can cheat with them.
Yeah, I've been to big tournaments for Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, Magic, etc, and they all require card sleeves nowadays. It's proper practice, especially since wear-and-tear can really make different cards distinguishable from each other. Plus, normal usage will expose your cards to table dirt, dust, and scratches. Why would you want to put your valuable cards through that?
It's just proper procedure, and pretty much everypony who cares about their cards put sleeves on them.
Just sleeve your cards, jabrams. There's no real reason not to.
Bicycle prints custom playing cards. For orders of 100 Decks it is $ 6.67 per deck, or you can do a one-off for $20. Does anyone have the print-and-play Yomi file? I'm wondering how it would compare to have them printed up by Bicycle. Link.
Anyone ever use a 100% plastic deck? I played poker with one back in college. They run like $10-15 just for a deck of normal playing cards but damn those things are sexy.
Why would you want to put your valuable cards through that?
Because they're not valuable. They're worthless pieces of cardboard. They're just as valuable as any other game pieces. Are you going to say we should only roll our dice on pillows? Should we coat our wooden cubes in acrylic? Should we laminate our game boards?
Putting cards in sleeves makes them extremely difficult to shuffle properly. Properly means the way a dealer in a casino shuffles cards. Any other method of shuffling is not proper.
Also, sleeves do not solve the problem of wear and tear distinguishing cards. I can take the cards out, wear them, and put them back in the sleeve. Do they only allow sleeves with opaque backs? What if I wear the sleeves themselves? Sleeves actually allow you to mark cards without damaging the cards themselves since you can just mark the sleeves. Also, you can lick your finger, get a sleeve wet, and then stick the cards together. It may seem like sleeves make cheating harder, to amateurs, but they make it drastically easier to anyone else.
It's all a scam to get people to spend more money on sleeves. I mean, you're already gullible enough to waste money on a collectible card game, you're an easy mark! Just like the people who put their comic books in CGC slabs. http://www.cgccomics.com/. This sort of collecting is definitely a geekery in itself, but I have no respect for it. In fact, I disdain it. It is a geekery focused solely on materialism and wealth as opposed to knowledge and learning.
Yeah, I've been to big tournaments for Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, Magic, etc, and they all require card sleeves nowadays. It's proper practice, especially since wear-and-tear can really make different cards distinguishable from each other. Plus, normal usage will expose your cards to table dirt, dust, and scratches. Why would you want to put your valuable cards through that?
It's so easy to cheat when sleeves are on it's laughable.
I don't cheat when games are played, but I'd be willing to in a sleeved Dominion just to show you how easy it is to always magically have enough money for Provinces.
Bicycle prints custom playing cards. For orders of 100 Decks it is $ 6.67 per deck, or you can do a one-off for $20. Does anyone have the print-and-play Yomi file? I'm wondering how it would compare to have them printed up by Bicycle. Link.
I wonder if those custom decks are the same quality as the regular decks.
Anyone ever use a 100% plastic deck? I played poker with one back in college. They run like $10-15 just for a deck of normal playing cards but damn those things are sexy.
I had an all plastic deck at one point. Not a fan. They're cool at first, but don't hold up in actual play. One of the cards snapped at one point, and that was the end of it.
I know it's a brand, but I put it in quotes because I'm using it sort of like the term Band-Aid or Kleenex where it can refer to equivalent products from other brands. I consider Bee and Tally-Ho brand cards to be just as good as Bicycle, in my experience. Thing is, pretty much every grocery and drug store in the US sells Bicycle and that's it.
Really? That's odd, I didn't know that - they're harder to get over here, generally, you have to go online or to hobbies and games stores. I'd rate average Bee and Tally-hos - Which are not generally sold here, since there is a trademark conflict with Tally-ho rolling papers - but Bicycle's higher end cards, like the Titanium and Sentinel decks, are generally of higher quality. Interesting fact - one of the reasons Bicycle cards are so popular with Magicians is that some of their designs lend themselves particularly well to very simple but inconspicuous marking. That said, Bee Stingers decks are also pretty damn nice.
PROTIP - Bee and Bicycle cards are made by the same company. Bicycle are generally the premium decks, but the Bee line also has some Premium decks - the Stingers line as an example, with Casino grade cards. They also own KEM, Hoyle, Aviator, Congress, Maverick and Streamline.
Also, If you want some high-quality decks for cheap, you can get used casino cards. They're pretty good, as-new condition, and cheap as.
but Bicycle's higher end cards, like the Titanium and Sentinel decks, are generally of higher quality.
I was not aware these existed. I'm going to buy some on Amazon if possible.
Interesting fact - one of the reasons Bicycle cards are so popular with Magicians is that some of their designs lend themselves particularly well to very simple but inconspicuous marking.
I had such a deck at one point. It used a system of very slight modifications to the bicycle design in the top right corner to identify the cards. You would never be able to tell unless you knew, and then it would be crazy obvious.
Also, If you want some high-quality decks for cheap, you can get used casino cards. They're pretty good, as-new condition, and cheap as.
They are excellent, except they have a hole punched in them. Same problem with used casino dice.
I was not aware these existed. I'm going to buy some on Amazon if possible.
Go to Theory 11 to pick them up - They're 12 bucks on Amazon, but T11 has them for five bucks. If you're looking for serious premium cards, Magic shops like Theory 11 are the way to go.
Also, Knowing you, you might like the Propaganda Deck. Also, The Sentinels are some seriously fucking good cards. Trust the fuckhead.
I had such a deck at one point. It used a system of very slight modifications to the bicycle design in the top right corner to identify the cards. You would never be able to tell unless you knew, and then it would be crazy obvious.
I do the same thing. Though I do keep specific marked and unmarked decks. If I'm playing with friends, I use the unmarked decks. If not, Fuck 'em, marked deck it is.
They are excellent, except they have a hole punched in them. Same problem with used casino dice.
I find it's not a huge impediment, and they're good enough for practicing tricks, shuffles, and playing quick games when you're out and about, unless you're keen to be dragging your good decks around all the time.
Because they're not valuable. ... Putting cards in sleeves makes them extremely difficult to shuffle properly. Properly means the way a dealer in a casino shuffles cards. Any other method of shuffling is not proper.
Value is obviously quite relative. To you, a Magic card can all be worth pennies, but can be worth 10's of dollars to a typical Magic player. Plus, the value can also be elevated by rarity. Since the Dominion and Dixit promo cards are a lot harder to find, you'd be more inclined to preserve them with sleeves.
Who decided that casino shuffling was the only, "proper" way of shuffling, anyway? I've been shuffling with sleeves for ages, and I've seen hundreds of people doing it as well. Hell, even people who aren't into card games can shuffle cards with sleeves. I don't understand how someone can find it so difficult to do so.
Casino shuffling can be rough on cards anyway. It makes them prone to bending, and ultimately weakens the card stock that they were printed on. Not everyone has enough money to go out and buy a second copy of a game just because one or two of the essential cards got bent.
With sleeves, if a specific card sleeve gets damaged in any way then it's absolutely trivial to replace it. It's much harder to find a replacement for a specific card. It also allows a certain degree of uniformity. If I've been playing with my Dominion cards for a year now, and I suddenly get the Black Market promo, the new cards are obviously going to be far less worn than my old cards. How do you expect to play with the Black Market cards if the backs are so obviously different?
It may seem like sleeves make cheating harder, to amateurs, but they make it drastically easier to anyone else.
I never said that sleeves made cheating easier. I only specifically stated that they make old cards indistinguishable with new cards. If you're already inclined to cheat, then you're going to find a way to do it, regardless of whether the cards have sleeves or not. It's irrelevant, really.
Plus, in a CCG tournament setting, it's mandatory procedure to shuffle and cut your opponent's deck before the game starts, and after each instance of shuffling, so those methods of cheating are easily minimized. Also buying new sleeves before a tournament also minimizes the marking issue.
I get that this is a great example of capitalism at its finest, but there really is a practical reason to using sleeves.
Casino shuffling can be rough on cards anyway. It makes them prone to bending, and ultimately weakens the card stock that they were printed on. Not everyone has enough money to go out and buy a second copy of a game just because one or two of the essential cards got bent.
I'll just play with the bent card. It's not the end of the world. Also, nobody should bend cards. I have played with extremely old decks that have been shuffled many many times, and no cards were bent because no players were morons.
I'll just play with the bent card. It's not the end of the world. Also, nobody should bend cards. I have played with extremely old decks that have been shuffled many many times, and no cards were bent because no players were morons.
Well, there you go. Ultimately, you don't prefer sleeves because you don't care about the condition that you play your cards in. Some people do care, so they have a valid reason to use sleeves.
It's not just about bending. Casino shuffling inevitably weakens the card, especially if they are printed on the specific type of card stock that they use in TCG's and other card games. There are plenty of other practical and effective methods of shuffling that doesn't inherently wear down the structure of the card.
Well, there you go. Ultimately, you don't prefer sleeves because you don't care about the condition that you play your cards in. Some people do care, so they have a valid reason to use sleeves.
They are stupid for caring. Do you care if your monpoly money gets bent? Do you care if your d20 gets scratched? It's gaming equipment, not a priceless work of art.
It's not just about bending. Casino shuffling inevitably weakens the card, especially if they are printed on the specific type of card stock that they use in TCG's and other card games. There are plenty of other practical and effective methods of shuffling that doesn't inherently wear down the structure of the card.
Do you mean Riffle shuffling, corgi shuffling, weaving, or shuffling machines?
They are stupid for caring. Do you care if your monpoly money gets bent? Do you care if your d20 gets scratched? It's gaming equipment, not a priceless work of art.
I think that goes little too far. It doesn't matter witch monopoly note I take next (as long as it's right amount) and d20 is never perfect even from out of box so scratches are meaningless. But in certain card games knowing what card you have on top of your deck can have meaning and wear on the cards make identifying them easier.
Comments
I honestly dont see what is so bad about sleeving cards. It preserves your game, and it makes shuffling without bending a whole lot easier. It also helps distinguish your cards from other people's cards, and gives you more customization options.
Sleeves on Dominion is one thing. Sleeves on Yomi is like punching his design choices in the dick.
Bend a Yomi card, even a little, and it stays bent.
The lack of thickness of the cards, combined with their lack of elasticity to resume their natural shape, you're more likely to have bent cards, which is why I'm considering sleeving them, just to add some support and thickness.
It's just proper procedure, and pretty much everypony who cares about their cards put sleeves on them.
Just sleeve your cards, jabrams. There's no real reason not to.
Anyone ever use a 100% plastic deck? I played poker with one back in college. They run like $10-15 just for a deck of normal playing cards but damn those things are sexy.
Putting cards in sleeves makes them extremely difficult to shuffle properly. Properly means the way a dealer in a casino shuffles cards. Any other method of shuffling is not proper.
Also, sleeves do not solve the problem of wear and tear distinguishing cards. I can take the cards out, wear them, and put them back in the sleeve. Do they only allow sleeves with opaque backs? What if I wear the sleeves themselves? Sleeves actually allow you to mark cards without damaging the cards themselves since you can just mark the sleeves. Also, you can lick your finger, get a sleeve wet, and then stick the cards together. It may seem like sleeves make cheating harder, to amateurs, but they make it drastically easier to anyone else.
It's all a scam to get people to spend more money on sleeves. I mean, you're already gullible enough to waste money on a collectible card game, you're an easy mark! Just like the people who put their comic books in CGC slabs. http://www.cgccomics.com/. This sort of collecting is definitely a geekery in itself, but I have no respect for it. In fact, I disdain it. It is a geekery focused solely on materialism and wealth as opposed to knowledge and learning.
I don't cheat when games are played, but I'd be willing to in a sleeved Dominion just to show you how easy it is to always magically have enough money for Provinces.
PROTIP - Bee and Bicycle cards are made by the same company. Bicycle are generally the premium decks, but the Bee line also has some Premium decks - the Stingers line as an example, with Casino grade cards. They also own KEM, Hoyle, Aviator, Congress, Maverick and Streamline.
Also, If you want some high-quality decks for cheap, you can get used casino cards. They're pretty good, as-new condition, and cheap as.
Also, Knowing you, you might like the Propaganda Deck. Also, The Sentinels are some seriously fucking good cards. Trust the fuckhead. I do the same thing. Though I do keep specific marked and unmarked decks. If I'm playing with friends, I use the unmarked decks. If not, Fuck 'em, marked deck it is. I find it's not a huge impediment, and they're good enough for practicing tricks, shuffles, and playing quick games when you're out and about, unless you're keen to be dragging your good decks around all the time.
Who decided that casino shuffling was the only, "proper" way of shuffling, anyway? I've been shuffling with sleeves for ages, and I've seen hundreds of people doing it as well. Hell, even people who aren't into card games can shuffle cards with sleeves. I don't understand how someone can find it so difficult to do so.
Casino shuffling can be rough on cards anyway. It makes them prone to bending, and ultimately weakens the card stock that they were printed on. Not everyone has enough money to go out and buy a second copy of a game just because one or two of the essential cards got bent.
With sleeves, if a specific card sleeve gets damaged in any way then it's absolutely trivial to replace it. It's much harder to find a replacement for a specific card. It also allows a certain degree of uniformity. If I've been playing with my Dominion cards for a year now, and I suddenly get the Black Market promo, the new cards are obviously going to be far less worn than my old cards. How do you expect to play with the Black Market cards if the backs are so obviously different? I never said that sleeves made cheating easier. I only specifically stated that they make old cards indistinguishable with new cards. If you're already inclined to cheat, then you're going to find a way to do it, regardless of whether the cards have sleeves or not. It's irrelevant, really.
Plus, in a CCG tournament setting, it's mandatory procedure to shuffle and cut your opponent's deck before the game starts, and after each instance of shuffling, so those methods of cheating are easily minimized. Also buying new sleeves before a tournament also minimizes the marking issue.
I get that this is a great example of capitalism at its finest, but there really is a practical reason to using sleeves.
It's not just about bending. Casino shuffling inevitably weakens the card, especially if they are printed on the specific type of card stock that they use in TCG's and other card games. There are plenty of other practical and effective methods of shuffling that doesn't inherently wear down the structure of the card.