Atheism- Where the fuck did we come from?

glimpster

So I don't believe at all in any of the religions out there, even though, like Rym, I had to attend religious school from Kindergarden through 7th grade. Personally, I do think that there's something out there, but modern man has fucked up the ideas behind it, and blown it out of proportion.

Think about it, how the hell did all this get here, the earth, life, everything. It didn't just happen. If there was no god, something would have to somehow spontaneously happen to create materials for planets. On top of that, there'd have to be something to spark life into motion.

Any crazy theories on how "stuff" came into being?

tuttle88

I don't know how stuff came into being, but I also don't know how my microwave works. I know there are logical explanations out there for how the universe came into being I don't understand them but that doesn't mean the universe was created by Gods.

Apreche

I don't know how stuff came into being, but I also don't know how my microwave works. I know there are logical explanations out there for how the universe came into being I don't understand them but that doesn't mean the universe was created by Gods.

You may want to read this.

Cremlian

What if my god is the god of Science.. Does that make me an atheist?

thaneofcawdor

No, that makes you a Scientologist. Hail Xenu!

tuttle88

I don't know how stuff came into being, but I also don't know how my microwave works. I know there are logical explanations out there for how the universe came into being I don't understand them but that doesn't mean the universe was created by Gods.

You may want to read this.

Is there a 'the universe' one of those?

Cremlian

I wonder what my speciality cleric powers would be. Hmmmm.

"If a cleric of Science can prove that a spell effect used could not have been replicated in reality without supernatural powers, then the spell is instantly negated."

Jason

Everything anyone can say on this subject is going to boil down to the question, "What is outside of the universe, then?"

Rym

The more relevant question is whether or not the world is discrete. Is are energy/time/space irreducible at some point? Whichever the answer, it allows us to make a whole host of assumptions.

Jason

You've probably seen it, but I was blown away by an episode of the PBS show NOVA that dealt with theories about the basic composition of the universe. It theorized that instead of basically round sub-sub-atomic particles, everything is really composed of "strings" that vibrate at certain frequencies that in turn define matter/energy.

I'm no physicist. I'm a news writer. But what really warped my mind was that according to string theory, the laws of the universe change at the subatomic level. The prime example was gravity, which is manifested in wave-like "wells" around huge spaceborn objects such as planets. Gravimetric forces determine how planets move in elipses and are very, very stable.

But on the subatomic level, that stability is completely tossed to the wind. Everything is in chaos. The macro-physical laws are junked and a new set of probable-state physical rules is used. The idea is that anything is possible, no matter how ludicrous, and can be caused by chaotic string resonance.

I say all this to point out that we don't really even understand the most basic mechanics of the universe. That leaves a fairly trivial question like "how did life start" in the dust.

BTW, I've got a lot to say about the atheism episode, but I'm not even sure I want to get into it. I'm already exhausted from this shit post.

Andrew

I'm no physicist. I'm a news writer. But what really warped my mind was that according to string theory, the laws of the universe change at the subatomic level. The prime example was gravity, which is manifested in wave-like "wells" around huge spaceborn objects such as planets. Gravimetric forces determine how planets move in elipses and are very, very stable.

That is Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

But on the subatomic level, that stability is completely tossed to the wind. Everything is in chaos. The macro-physical laws are junked and a new set of probable-state physical rules is used.

Quantum Physics.

String Theory is a very young theory that tries to united Einstein's Theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics under one grand theory. Basically the Theory of Relativity deals with perfect laws that will always be replicable. Planets will always move in a predictable path. Quantum Theory contradicts this fact because at the atomic level, the movement of atoms is not definite. The most notable experiment that demonstrates this is the Slit Experiment which shows that light itself is really a wave of probability that is collapased when observed.

Now both of these theories are pretty much fact these days with years and years of repeatable experiments to back them up. However they seem to disagree with each other. How can an atom not be in anyone spot at a given time, yet a giant planet is easily shown to be at a point in space? This is what String Theory tries to explain. HOWEVER, there has been no evidence shown that String Theory is correct because there have been no experiements that can prove it.

Symmetry

The more relevant question is whether or not the world is discrete. Is are energy/time/space irreducible at some point? Whichever the answer, it allows us to make a whole host of assumptions.

Unfortunately, from what I've read it does seem that the universe is ultimately irreducible at some point. That really sucks because it means that only a finite number of computations can be extracted from the universe over all of time - or in other words there's absolutely no way to get around the fact that I'm going to die some day.

fuurin

Argghh I just had a discussion with my colleague who's muslim...
He asked me how come I don't believe in God and I gave him a whole list of reasons like, "I really don't see the necessity for an all-mighty, all knowing being to exist" and the many proofs of evolution. He on the other hand could only give me half-arsed arguments like "what's the meaning of life then?" or "what happens to you after you die?", which, now that I think about it, aren't even arguments.

I have absolutely no problems reconciling with the idea that when I die my body will turn to dirt and that will be the end of my consciousness, the end of me. In my mind, the only reason I have a consciousness is because of evolution and because we humans were lucky enough to have our brains develop beyond the size of a walnut.
I can understand that people do not want to believe that they cease to exist completely after death. I was dead scared of the thought as a child as well. After all, our experiences are so precious and our personalities are so original right?
I really don't mind people believing whatever they want, as long as they don't look down on people who think differently and they don't push their beliefs and religion on you.

Anyways... our discussion ended with him saying that he'd find me some scientific proof against evolution.
Ha! I say... I'd love to see that.
Even if he does manage to find some "scientific" proof, I'll tear down his arguments so fast he won't know what hit him.

Haha sorry for the rant, but I just can't stand it when people blatantly refuse to accept the obvious. Although I guess he doesn't really have choice if he's to remain a good muslim in this case.

HeavyCruiserLost

The more relevant question is whether or not the world is discrete. Is are energy/time/space irreducible at some point? Whichever the answer, it allows us to make a whole host of assumptions.

Unfortunatly, from what I've read it does seem that the universe is ultimetly irreducible at some point. That really sucks because it means that only a finite number of computations can be extracted from the universe over all of time - or in other words there's absolutly no way to get around the fact that I'm going to die some day.

Ahhh . . . the tragic irony of it all . . . the juxtaposition that we are helplessly trapped in a rotting corpse yet having the capacity to dream like Gods. Oh, how it burns!

Sparkybuzzed

One of the things that many forget when arguing against religion or spiritual beliefs is the idea that they don't have to be proven or even rational. Religion is a construct to further define the universe and to comfort people.

I'm Roman Catholic. Born into it as my father before me and his father before him. I accept the Theory of Evolution and Natural Selection. I like being Catholic and I identify with it very strongly. I don't subscribe to all the Church's teachings, but I consider myself a practicing Catholic. Do my religious beliefs make my views on science any less valid? No. Does anyone else's science make my religious beliefs less valid? No to that one too.

As science continues to grow and show us more about the universe, I feel that it gives us a deeper understanding as to our place in it and the beauty of the entirety of creation (that's the object, not the -ism). Evolution and String Theory and many other Theories do not make God less likely. They make Him more impressive.

trogdor9

Everything anyone can say on this subject is going to boil down to the question, "What is outside of the universe, then?"

What is infinity plus one?

/Answering questions with questions is fun.

Symmetry

Getting back to the original topic: If God didn't create the universe where did the universe come from? But if He did, where did God come from? Invoking God only moves the problem one step back.

trogdor9

Getting back to the origonal topic: If God didn't create the universe where did the universe come from? But if He did, where did God come from? Invoking God only moves the problem one step back.

Chuck Norris.

TheWhaleShark

I think this sums up my philosophy on almost everything rather succinctly:



I would also say that you can't know the answer to that question, but I don't know if you can't know, so I can't really say that with any certainty.

Life is a giant question; living is the process of trying to find the answer. Whether or not you find the answer, or an answer, or even if there is an answer, is totally irrelevant.

tuttle88

I am an atheist because I don't believe in God. I don't care if others do as long as they don't try to convert me. How the universe came into being? I don't care. I know it wasn't some almighty being. I walk through the Botanic Gardens and see all these beautiful flowers and am amazed that they came into being through pure chance and have had to struggle to survive, to me saying that someone or something created it takes away from the beauty of it all. People can create beautiful things quite easily but for it to be created purely by the environment without any help is more special.

And yet I'm the one without faith.

belarm

Any crazy theories on how "stuff" came into being?

Well, the "Big Bang" hypothesis was actually named that by people who didn't believe it, as a way of mocking how "crazy" it was...of course, the hypothesis gained some credence as time went on. To answer your question, no, I do not have a theory about the origin of the universe, but I submit that religion doesn't, either. None of the falsifiable unique claims made by religion (the ones that are unique to religion and not put forth by other hypotheses, that is) have come true, to my knowledge. This puts science ahead of religion and faith in terms of explaining the universe in a useful way, as it has several hypotheses that are at least workable. Science is still a work in progress, but that's what has always given it the edge.

Sparkybuzzed

I am an atheist because I don't believe in God. I don't care if others do as long as they don't try to convert me. How the universe came into being? I don't care. I know it wasn't some almighty being. I walk through the Botanic Gardens and see all these beautiful flowers and am amazed that they came into being through pure chance and have had to struggle to survive, to me saying that someone or something created it takes away from the beauty of it all. People can create beautiful things quite easily but for it to be created purely by the environment without any help is more special.

And yet I'm the one without faith.

You know? How? How do you know it was by chance that beauty exists in the natural world? Declarative statements are dangerous.

Thaed

Really, where we came from is almost a moot point. The reason religion is important today is because it is a mechanism used by a small group of people to control a large group of people. Religion is being used as a tool for war and oppression. While this is nothing new, it matters more than ever when you think of people using nuclear weapons in the name of God. This is one case where rational discourse does not help. Even when you provide a person who has accepted something on faith with a mountain of evidence that his faith is based on a lie, you fail because faith is not rational. The ever increasing problem is violence caused by the religious and oppression by groups of people who tell other people what they can and cannot do because God said so.