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GeekNights 20110531 - R-Eco and Battle Line

MrPeriodMrPeriod
edited May 2011 in GeekNights

Tonight on GeekNights, we consider two two-player warm-up card games: R-Eco and Battle Line (a remake of Knizia's earlier Schotten-Totten). We also consider our recent CounterStrike play (more to come), the DS Lite price drop, and Activision's coming subscription service for Call of Duty.

Also, if you're so inclined, take a gander at our good friend's team for the Tri-State Trek to fight ALS.

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Comments

  • KapitänTimKapitänTim
    Good. Im glad they are having a subscription for COD. I HATE COD.
  • RymRym
    Crystal Warriors.
  • MattMatt
    Never even heard of R-Eco before but looking forward to learning about it. Why do I feel that whenever I see these interesting looking games w/ no fancy designer attached, they are always coming from Z-Man? Zev needs to get himself a better website. Makes it so hard to stay on top of what is coming out from his company.
  • KapitänTimKapitänTim
    Schwarzwalder Kirschtorte! ICH MOCHTE!!!
  • IkatonoIkatono
    Rym, what game theory books have you been reading? I've been wanting to get into it, and wikibooks has been less than helpful.
  • InvaderRENInvaderREN
    Fuck yes DS lite, you are king. Who among you does not have one? WHO AMONG YOU?

    TWEWY, Kart, Phoenix, Layton, Clash of Heroes, Tetris, FF, Inside Story, 2x Zelda, 2x Advance wars, DQ, Pokemanz, Every JRPG ever, Picross and Picross 3D, Fire Emblem, O-EN-DAAAAAN!!!

    PHWOAAAR! Block out the sun with my semen!

    I. AM . SPARTACUS!

    Also, Net Runner is the best 2 player card game I have ever played. Steep learning curve but Runner vs Corporation, the way the two decks interacted and played SO differently.. So awesome.
  • MattMatt
    Rym, what game theory books have you been reading? I've been wanting to get into it, and wikibooks has been less than helpful.
    I was meaning to ask this question as well when you mentioned you had ordered a few game theory books. Something I've wanted to brush up on for a while as well. There is an MIT open courseware offering on game theory, but they are are graduate level and would likely make my head esplode.

    Also, Net Runner is the best 2 player card game I have ever played. Steep learning curve but Runner vs Corporation, the way the two decks interacted and played SO differently.. So awesome.
    You know, I believe you. That game is one of the dead CCGs that has managed to keep an underground following. I still have a dusty starter deck somewhere, but I never even read the rules booklet. For shame.
  • RymRym
    I was meaning to ask this question as well when you mentioned you had ordered a few game theory books.
    I'm not super impressed with them so far, so I'm hesitant to recommend them.
  • RymRym
    That game is one of the dead CCGs
    Wanna play some Jihad? I still have my deck.
  • TeslaTesla
    Good. Im glad they are having a subscription for COD. I HATE COD.
    Yeah... I'm hoping this might dislodge some of the stereotypical frat boys/elementary school kids who run around shouting "BLACK OPS!" and worshiping the game. What I find most interesting, though, is that a bunch of the features in this new subscription model are (and have been for more than half a decade; they went back as far as 2004's Halo 2 before Xbox Live 1.0 went down, and they still reach back to 2007's Halo 3) free for Halo; just go to Bungie.net, and they keep complete records of every game that is played, all player stats, heatmaps of who died and where, etc etc. I don't often use it, but it's pretty cool that the functionality exists for every game, and every player, with no need for anyone to do anything. Not trying to sound fanboyish, just felt it was relevant, considering that these two games consistently are at the top of the "Most Played" charts online.
  • AndrewAndrew
    I was meaning to ask this question as well when you mentioned you had ordered a few game theory books.
    I'm not super impressed with them so far, so I'm hesitant to recommend them.
    This is the book I learned from.
  • AprecheApreche
    Not trying to sound fanboyish, just felt it was relevant, considering that these two games consistently are at the top of the "Most Played" charts online.
    Is there somewhere to see actual numbers? I really want to compare the XBL games to Steam.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
  • MattMatt
    That game is one of the dead CCGs
    Wanna play some Jihad? I still have my deck.
    Hah I would totally be up for playing a dead CCG one day but I don't even remember that one. I've got two huge boxes of cards in the back of a closet somewhere, but I was definitely a license whore back in the 8th grade. All of the cards are Star Wars, Star Trek, Middle Earth, Marvel Overpower, and Wildstorms. Oh and a box of Sim City CCG that needs to be thrown of a roof and run over by an 18-wheeler.
  • highdefinitionhighdefinition
    If activision feels the need to push the subscription model to maximize profit, they should scrap the single player side of the game, give the game out for free, then they could charge a monthly fee without as much hate coming down on them. It would be cheaper for them to make, more units would get out, more people would play it, if even briefly, gamers on average would pay less while activision would still be making more money.
  • TeslaTesla
    Not trying to sound fanboyish, just felt it was relevant, considering that these two games consistently are at the top of the "Most Played" charts online.
    Is there somewhere to see actual numbers? I really want to compare the XBL games to Steam.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
    I don't know about COD, but Bungie keeps a live count of unique users on Halo on their site, which tracks players currently online, the number of unique players in the past 24 hours, and the number of games played in the past 24 hours. It's right on their homepage. (Also, while I'm at it, here's an example of the stat tracking, if any are interested: my profile. It keeps a record of weapon kills, medals, every game, etc)

    Besides that, there is Major Nelson's weekly list of Xbox Live activity, which ranks the 20 games that were played by the most people who were connected to Live (which is why games like LA Noire can be on there), which can be found here.

    Also, now that I've finished the episode, a question: I do fully agree with you about how BS this sort of subscription is; it really speaks to how little they think of the intelligence of their audience when they try and pitch this (but I suppose they lap it up, so maybe I'm too generous). I am, however, curious if you've seen any examples of extra subscription style things that you think are acceptable. For instance, again using Halo, as it is my main social game, there is a service called Bungie Pro you can subscribe to for 4 bucks for six months, which gives you two things. One, your in game "file share," where you can post screenshots/saved game films/user generated maps/etc, is boosted from six slots to 24, and you gain the ability to render film clips using "render minutes" (the membership comes with so many per month, and you can buy more), so that you get an actual video file that you can watch anywhere, as to keep file sizes down, the raw films are just data that the game engine recreates. I think it's a cool system for people that want it, as it gives a nice perk for people that want to share more content and keep their films, but if you don't care about that, you don't miss out on anything.
  • RymRym
    One, your in game "file share," where you can post screenshots/saved game films/user generated maps/etc, is boosted from six slots to 24, and you gain the ability to render film clips using "render minutes" (the membership comes with so many per month, and you can buy more), so that you get an actual video file that you can watch anywhere, as to keep file sizes down, the raw films are just data that the game engine recreates.
    But I can do all of that for free with most any PC game.
  • AndrewAndrew
    LULZ you have to purchase rendering minutes. This just makes me realize just how much I <3 Steam. Being able to link directory to your Youtube account, cloud store screenshots as well as controls and saves, and manage all my games for free is just amazing.
  • TeslaTesla
    edited June 2011
    But I can do all of that for free with most any PC game.
    True, and you can also do it on the console, if you have a capture card. Yes, that's a cheating answer, and I know it. I believe it has to do with the way the films are stored; like I said, if you were to copy the code of a film clip, it would be a bunch of instructions that the engine would then render; as such, the film file sizes are quite small. A five minute clip fits into a megabyte or two, I believe. The paid service is using their servers to render those instructions and convert them to a usable video file. Otherwise, you can watch it only on the game disc.

    When you say you can do it for free with most PC games, do you mean just capturing video? Or is there a feature to go into the game and record video in-engine? Because that's another part of the case with Halo. In game, there is a Theater mode, where you have a free camera that you can move around anywhere in the game space, while the 'film' is playing, and record clips, take screenshots, etc, from any angle, any player's viewpoint (HUD and all), with rewind/fast forward, many controls. I'm curious, as I'm really just getting into PC gaming; I'm in the process of building a desktop for just that purpose, as my current laptop is pretty useless for gaming, so I don't really have any experience to speak of with this kind of thing on the PC.
    LULZ you have to purchase rendering minutes. This just makes me realize just how much I <3 Steam. Being able to link directory to your Youtube account, cloud store screenshots as well as controls and saves, and manage all my games for free is just amazing.</p>
    Yeah, I know; I don't personally think it's worth it, so I pass on it, but at the same time, I don't think it's too badly priced. That said, Steam still wins, hands down, but on the console front, I feel like Bungie is one of the better developers out there on fronts like this.
    Post edited by Tesla on
  • GreyHugeGreyHuge
    edited June 2011
    On the subject of dead CCG's, hecatomb anyone?
    Post edited by GreyHuge on
  • Josh BytesJosh Bytes
    I had a lot of fun back in the day playing Vampire the Eternal Struggle card game. I had so many cards that allowed all of us playing to build a clan specific deck. Good times.
  • PeguPegu
    edited June 2011
    But I can do all of that for free with most any PC game.When you say you can do it for free with most PC games, do you mean just capturing video? Or is there a feature to go into the game and record video in-engine? Because that's another part of the case with Halo. In game, there is a Theater mode, where you have a free camera that you can move around anywhere in the game space, while the 'film' is playing, and record clips, take screenshots, etc, from any angle, any player's viewpoint (HUD and all), with rewind/fast forward, many controls. I'm curious, as I'm really just getting into PC gaming; I'm in the process of building a desktop for just that purpose, as my current laptop is pretty useless for gaming, so I don't really have any experience to speak of with this kind of thing on the PC.
    Source engine games have a feature like this but I'm not sure about the free camera thing. I forget what it's called.
    Post edited by Pegu on
  • InvaderRENInvaderREN
    I had a lot of fun back in the day playing Vampire the Eternal Struggle card game. I had so many cards that allowed all of us playing to build a clan specific deck. Good times.
    Yep, same here. We had some epic 4-5 hour games with 6-8 players. I LOVED the voting system in that game, especially early on when our card pools were limited so everyone had a few vote cards in hand. Although I distinctly remember one card being banned in our playgroup. I think it was called Misdirection. X(blood): tap X target creatures. Swing with all my vamps. You lose.

    I had a Malkav deck and one of my mates ran Nosferatu with shotguns and dragon breath rounds. Good times.
  • TeslaTesla
    Source engine games have a feature like this but I'm not sure about the free camera thing. I forget what it's called.
    That's a recent feature, right? I remember hearing about that, though I haven't tried it myself. I definitely think it's great; Halo's Theater mode debuted in 2007, and I still haven't seen much like it. It's a shame, in my mind, as it's really an awesome tool, since you can go to any game you've played recently (or saved), and relive it from every angle, every player's eyes, and every minute detail of piece of data is there. Furthermore, on the topic of the render minutes, there is one point I don't think I mentioned which is why I don't really care about them. All of these films are watchable in game, by you or anyone, as you can send them to people, and there is a file browser (again, in game) that can pull up any and every file ever created, and you can watch it right there on your TV with the same free camera control. That's why I don't care about being able to render it online; I can just download it to my Xbox and watch it on my TV (which is much bigger than my computer screen).

    Anyway, sorry for getting this a bit off track, I just wanted to convey the full extent of the feature for the sake of discussion; the card games sound definitely interesting, I may have to give them a shot with some friends. Been looking for a new warmup type game, these sound pretty great!
  • AprecheApreche
    I know that in source engine games there is a demo recording/playback feature you can use via the console. I also know that HLTV exists. I'm not sure if you can use HLTV on a demo that is being played back.
  • MattMatt
    edited June 2011
    Just listening to the episode now, and in response to the NerdNYC stuff in the meta moment, have you guys checked out the game listing for Recess? I've had this even circled on my calendar as "cannot miss" since the date was announced, and sadly enough I have crossed it off because there is barely anything I am interested in playing. It's extremely RPG heavy this time, and I'm looking to play board games, of which there are only 1 or 2 worth playing in each slot. No way I'm coming up to the city and risking those games filling up before I get in! I think the lesson learned here is that if you want to definitely have a good time, you should run a game.

    I'm more involuntarily shifting away from NerdNYC just b/c it takes me an hour to get there, and I can't justify that on Friday nights anymore when I've got a great local game group now and a kid at home. Just Recesses for me from here out, although maybe I'll go to one last Friday this month before the kid pops out. If you guys want to go but are worried about getting stuck playing warm-up games for 3 hours, I'll join you in the hardcore corner.
    Post edited by Matt on
  • RymRym
    It's extremely RPG heavy
    Many of the RPGs that get run there are actually pretty weak. I've had several great experiences, but more mediocre ones. I also usually never get into the games I want, as they fill up immediately.
  • AprecheApreche
    No way I'm coming up to the city and risking those games filling up before I get in! I think the lesson learned here is that if you want to definitely have a good time, you should run a game.
    You should come to our place and play board games all day.
  • MattMatt
    No way I'm coming up to the city and risking those games filling up before I get in! I think the lesson learned here is that if you want to definitely have a good time, you should run a game.
    You should come to our place and play board games all day.
    Not a bad idea at all. I've kept that date clear as it is so it'd be a shame to not game.
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