Why you should quit your technology job and get a Ph.D. in the humanities

Werther

From Technologist to Philosopher
Why you should quit your technology job and get a Ph.D. in the humanities

Victor Frost

Why is this under flamewars? It's good discussion topic.

Schnevets

I feel like you could write the exact same article about virtually any field of study: Why you should quit your IT job and get a business degree (You will be able to build software to improve management and efficiency!); Why you should quit your IT job and get an art degree (You'll be able to utilize technology to design incredible works of art!); Why you should quit your IT job and get an Archaeology degree (You'll be able to model, analyze, and hypothesize about history better!)

The fact is, computer programming and technology becomes more influential within different studies every day. I'm sure anyone who has l33t programming skillz and something they're passionate about can find ways to combine their interest with computing. Yes, certain facets of the humanities have some very computer science-related interests (in fact, pretty much anything in the field of logic qualifies), but I don't think the two have such a unique bond. Computer science is now just the cool kid who everyone wants to hang out with.

In a perfect world, education would acknowledge this and make some programming mandatory, but...

Special A

Why you should quit your IT job and get a welder's certification.

Werther

In a perfect world, education would acknowledge this and make some programming mandatory, but...

I think your argument is too "IT-centrist" and you missed the point. The humanities, especially philosophy, aren't just skills you acquire that help you do what you do better or in a more specialized field. IT and philosophy aren't on the same level. You can't just add programming skills to "philosophy skills". Philosophy changes how you think fundamentally.

Churba

Why you should quit your IT job and get a welder's certification.

PROTIP - Get the Welder's cert BEFORE you leave your IT job. At least that way, you're still making money at the same time, and you can do it as a part time community college course. Unless you get an Apprenticeship, which is best of both worlds - you're learning the job, AND getting paid, though granted, not as much.

Byron

When you learn to program a computer, you acquire a superpower: the ability to make an inanimate object follow your command. If you have a vision, and you can articulate it in code, you can make it real, summon it forth on your machine.

I wish I could feel so dreamy eyed about this.

And once you've built a few small systems that do clever tasks—like recognizing handwriting, or summarizing a news article—then you think perhaps you could build a system that could do any task. That is, of course, the holy grail of artificial intelligence, "AI."

I am still dreamy eyed about this, though.

The fact of the matter is that, in the United States, interdisciplinary research is pretty fucking hard to come by. I refuse to spend 7 years focusing on some minutia in one field of study, so most PhD programs in the US are out for me. I would love to straddle multiple domains, fusing them together with the power of systems thinking and an open mind. There isn't PhD work in that though. If there is, please inform.

EDIT: I already applied to MIT Media Lab and was not accepted. Any other programs out there that specialize in mixing disciplines?

WindUpBird

I'm preparing for an MD. I lack this dilemma.

EDIT: Of course, the dilemmas that do exist are a lot more vexing and varied. Maybe I'll just get an underwater welding cert.

Victor Frost

I've got a defensive driving certificate (whatever that's worth (nothing)) and I'm certified to drive a forklift (not worth much, but still worth something).

jtvh

The fact of the matter is that, in the United States, interdisciplinary research is pretty fucking hard to come by. I refuse to spend 7 years focusing on some minutia in one field of study, so most PhD programs in the US are out for me. I would love to straddle multiple domains, fusing them together with the power of systems thinking and an open mind. There isn't PhD work in that though. If there is, please inform.

EDIT: I already applied to MIT Media Lab and was not accepted. Any other programs out there that specialize in mixing disciplines?

My impression is that interdisciplinary work isn't often well-organized into programs, but rather is associated with specific PIs/advisors who engage their graduate students in the research. So, much of the time finding the right program seems to be a matter of figuring out who the right professor(s) are (through conferences, journals, information about NSF grants, etc) and contacting them directly, and/or finding a way to arrange an introduction, then (eventually, if it seems like a good match) applying for the program at their university.

WindUpBird

I've got a defensive driving certificate (whatever that's worth (nothing)) and I'm certified to drive a forklift (not worth much, but still worth something).

Badass certification pending?

Neito

I think your argument is too "IT-centrist" and you missed the point. The humanities, especially philosophy, aren't just skills you acquire that help you do what you do better or in a more specialized field. IT and philosophy aren't on the same level. You can't just add programming skills to "philosophy skills". Philosophy changes how you think fundamentally.

And I think your argument is too humanities-centric. They do fundamentally change the way you look at almost everything, from how to acquire and process information to what to do with it when you have it to how to do something as simple as get in touch with somebody. The fact that we're even having this debate here is the result of someone thinking laterally about how IT and communication can be combined.

P.S. neither is better than the other, and rather than trying to be one or the other, being a Renascence man is the best route. Learn a little bit of everything, with a few areas of expertise.

Victor Frost

P.S. neither is better than the other, and rather than trying to be one or the other, being a Renascence man is the best route. Learn a little bit of everything, with a few areas of expertise.

Pretty much what I've been doing in the three years I've been in college.

jtvh

From Technologist to Philosopher
Why you should quit your technology job and get a Ph.D. in the humanities

Okay, I'm intrigued. FWIW, I have a BA in Philosophy, an undergraduate certificate in software development, and I'm current a part-time grad student in B-school, and I definitely believe that there are real benefits to interdisciplinary study. In particular, my experience leads me to believe that the structured, logical thinking required for serious study of philosophy also lends itself well to programming (especially if you concentrate at all on symbolic logic in your philosophy studies).

So I'm enjoying the article. But then, a wild set of paragraphs appears:

Even if you are moved by my unguarded rhapsodizing here, no doubt you are also thinking, "How am I going to pay for this?!" You imagine, for a moment, the prospect of spending half a decade in the library, and you can't help but calculate the cost (and "opportunity cost") of this adventure.

But do you really value your mortgage more than the life of the mind? What is the point of a comfortable living if you don't know what the humanities have taught us about living well? If you already have a job in the technology industry, you are already significantly more wealthy than the vast majority of our planet's population. You already have enough.

Um, yeah, talk about false comparisons. Does the author really mean to imply that one cannot engage in the life of the mind without undertaking graduate studies? I also object to the contrast between the "life of the mind" and the mortgage; there are certainly world-views that don't separate out the body and mind so clearly as that implies. Come back down from the ivory tower, philosophizing Google man.

Byron

I'm preparing for an MD. I lack this dilemma.

Do you have any concern that algorithms exist which do as good a job as a doctor at diagnosing illness, so long as a nurse or other trained professional is available to confirm/checklist patient-reported symptoms? Imagine if, instead of having to spend a butt ton of money and waiting forever to see a doctor, we tap the abundant resources of computation and well trained RNs? This is more likely to happen than to not happen.

No dilemma? I think it would be important to learn more than just what the MD track gives you. Most people I know going into an MD track are seriously considering the MD/PhD track, which gets right into the PhD thread.

I think that, in the not too distant future, MDs would exist to write prescriptions and oversee the general management of a medical practice similarly to how a psychiatrist generally oversees a practice of psychologists and social workers (who can largely do the same work sans writing scripts).

The major exception is surgeons and other MDs that get all up to their elbows in human bits and pieces. Research is being done there as well (via robotics and nanotechnology), but that will be a lot harder for people to swallow.

Then again, if you are looking to practice in the US, nothing in the US medical industry ever changes. So you are probably quite safe.

Note: all my links are related to fuzzy logic systems because this is what I studied when I first encountered expert system replacements for MDs.

Anthony Heman

For philosophy and IT, being able to read math and syntax translated over to being able to being able to read logic notation and interpret written language literally. The two fields compliment each other too well, in my opinion, and are not really that different. I found myself well equipped to tackle legal language with those same tools.

I'm of the opinion that we should be teaching basic logic earlier, either alongside or before mathematics in elementary education. Having "Intro to Logic" as even an entry level college course is way too late to me. And logic helps with mathematics, science, and language.

Byron

much of the time finding the right program seems to be a matter of figuring out who the right professor(s) are (through conferences, journals, information about NSF grants, etc) and contacting them directly, and/or finding a way to arrange an introduction, then (eventually, if it seems like a good match) applying for the program at their university.

This is absolutely true for any PhD study, yes. However, your ability as student to persist with such interdisciplinary research hinges on the ability for a PI to maintain such interdisciplinary funding; this is far from guaranteed, especially in the time spans being considered for the typical PhD program. A program specifically designed to be interdisciplinary will not so easily fall apart when the PI decides to move schools, loses that particular line of funding, etc.

Rym

For philosophy and IT

The key to money is anything and IT. People who can do the IT, but also understand the business or non-IT technical side of a business are in high demand in every industry.

IT guy who knows lab procedures is worth way more than IT guy who only knows IT to a lab. People who specialize in just IT are replaceable unless their job and business are all directly and specifically IT.

Byron

I'm of the opinion that we should be teaching basic logic earlier, either alongside or before mathematics in elementary education. Having "Intro to Logic" as even an entry level college course is way too late to me. And logic helps with mathematics, science, and language.

Random observation from volunteering with kids to promote Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM): a bunch of visual programming tools have been created to begin teaching children about programming and logic at very early ages (e.g. 6-10); it was found anecdotally that a language like RoboC (a variant of C) was easier for them to learn. I lol'd when the teacher asked the kids what the first step in solving a problem was, and all the kids said "remember to add the semicolon at the end of every line!". The hypothesis was that writing a language like RoboC was much like how they were learning how to write English at the same time: learning rules of syntax and grammar (e.g. always capitalize the first word of a sentence, which has no bearing in how we speak at all).

WindUpBird

The major exception is surgeons and other MDs that get all up to their elbows in human bits and pieces. Research is being done there as well (via robotics and nanotechnology), but that will be a lot harder for people to swallow.

I'm working on becoming a fiddly bits doctor. Specifically, interventional neurorad with a trauma certification and a possible neuroscience PhD.

I'm part of the 3rd generation of doctors in my family. My house is in order, thanks. Although, I do have to agree with you about the potential of weak AIs to completely replace primaries and GPs (this is likely a preferrable outcome, to my mind). I'm also a strong proponent of robotic surgeries, though the nature of the human body and mind is such that a robot surgeon will likely fail to be reliable until Strong AI exists. Nanotechnology hosts a number of different problems which I will not go into. However, I do plan on using what I learn about neuroscience to work on connectronics, as AI neural nets are incredibly relevant to my interests.

Schnevets

For philosophy and IT

The key to money is anything and IT. People who can do the IT, but also understand the business or non-IT technical side of a business are in high demand in every industry.

IT guy who knows lab procedures is worth way more than IT guy who only knows IT to a lab. People who specialize in just IT are replaceable unless their job and business are all directly and specifically IT.

My sentiments exactly (Except I was thinking from a more development standpoint, rather than IT)

Also, the problem with teaching logic is the abstraction. If you just taught a student Boole in a class, they wouldn't understand the use. Hell, when I took a Logic class at my university, the Philosophy majors didn't understand the use of it! Teach them programming, however, and they can apply, understand, and definitely find a use, all while learning logic skills that can apply in a variety of fields.

bodtchboy

Sounds like another Alchemy game: Take what skills and/or education you have, mix it with something else and see what you get. Repeat until you get what you want.

Anthony Heman

For philosophy and IT

The key to money is anything and IT. People who can do the IT, but also understand the business or non-IT technical side of a business are in high demand in every industry.

IT guy who knows lab procedures is worth way more than IT guy who only knows IT to a lab. People who specialize in just IT are replaceable unless their job and business are all directly and specifically IT.

I agree completely. It's always been somewhat amusing to me that the best way to advance in many careers is not to be better at your job. It's to be better at everything else.

*Is it just me, or did this thread suddenly gain a whole lot more "IT" since the last time I read it?

Werther

1. *Is it just me, or did this thread suddenly gain a whole lot more "IT" since the last time I read it?

I found this pretty interesting. I posted this without really thinking about earning more money or having better job prospects. And in just a few posts the skills you learn in philosophy got watered down to skills like programming skills you learn and the idea got turned around. This may be a harsh or too idealistic view, but I believe studying philosophy may make you a better person (more aware, careful of what you say, thoughtful), whereas IT doesn't, may be even makes you more arrogant, because you feel like a "wizard" compared to the technically illiterate. You learn the how, not the why.

HungryJoe

1. *Is it just me, or did this thread suddenly gain a whole lot more "IT" since the last time I read it?

I found this pretty interesting. I posted this without really thinking about earning more money or having better job prospects. And in just a few posts the skills you learn in philosophy got watered down to skills like programming skills you learn and the idea got turned around. This may be a harsh or too idealistic view, but I believe studying philosophy may make you a better person (more aware, careful of what you say, thoughtful), whereas IT doesn't, may be even makes you more arrogant, because you feel like a "wizard" compared to the technically illiterate. You learn the how, not the why.

Does that contribute to your "sorrows"?

Humanities discussion + User Name "Werther" prompts lame Goethe joke.

Schnevets

Oh, and bee tee dubs, I do have an Associates Degree in the Liberal Arts, and I'm pursuing a Computer Science degree. My university program involved taking a few more gen ed. classes and then selecting a major. Made sense to me, since I had no idea what I wanted to do, until a class on Science Fiction and Real Technology inspired me to pursue computers. I took classes that were gratifying, possibly even to the point of "making me a better person" (although I've learned to hate that cliche), including one on Political Skepticism, one on Enlightenment philosophy, and one on Indian Culture and Religion. However, I also took classes that were very unnecessary (virtually anything about the history of the Fine Arts). I do understand the benefits of the humanities, but I also know an enlightening humanities class experience requires a lot: diligence, an inspiring professor, class participation, etc.

Regardless, I strongly believe that one does not need to major in the liberal arts in order to find its elusive benefits, and no more than you need a formal tech degree to learn technology. What really matters in any field is a passion for the subject.

Byron

I personally would like to study AI-driven story generation.

This would require researching literature for plot devices, character features, and other things that have been well studied in the past by humanities.

At that point, I'd be working on an expert machine that models the common grammar or structures that writers employ when building a story (one main arc, side arcs, etc). It would absolutely fuse math/CS (the AI bits) with literature studies and quite possibly sociology and psychology.

I spent a few months researching this idea and have found that maybe 3 people in the US study something called "emergent narrative." If I hit up any of those profs to do PhD work, I'd be doing research that gets away from my goal in all likelihood: emergent narrative is limited to random side work done in free time. sigh.

jtvh

I personally would like to study AI-driven story generation.

This would require researching literature for plot devices, character features, and other things that have been well studied in the past by humanities.

Do you know the folks at HASTAC? It's possible they might have interesting leads for you. They also sponsor occasional funding competitions, but I believe those are restricted to students.

Byron

Do you know the folks at HASTAC? It's possible they might have interesting leads for you

Thanks for the tip. My friends who've been through PhD programs said I'd be best off getting grants to do the research I want and then finding an advisor that has similar interests. I can't imagine anyone would fund such a project, but I will look into this.

jtvh

Do you know the folks at HASTAC? It's possible they might have interesting leads for you

Thanks for the tip. My friends who've been through PhD programs said I'd be best off getting grants to do the research I want and then finding an advisor that has similar interests. I can't imagine anyone would fund such a project, but I will look into this.

Your friends might just be right, since there aren't many people doing the research you're interested in. Also even just submitting a grant application and getting the feedback from the review panel can be very helpful in solidifying the research question at hand.

FWIW, the NSF CISE directorate seems to like interdisciplinary research, especially in the smaller grants designed for innovative and high-risk research (ie, "demonstration project" or "phase I" within most solicitations). But there's a big of a chicken/egg problem here: Most NSF funding streams require you to have a university affiliation (doesn't necessarily have to be student/faculty; I've been a PI and I'm on the administrative side).